Root Development vs Plant Growth

skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
I support my plants from the second week of flower, around day 14. The root system does not need to support the plant. I do it. If I were to untie my plants they would fall over... therefore the tiny root system of my plants are not relative to the 3ft plant above it.
 
Wavels

Wavels

Well-Known Member
These are some pics of outdoor plants in relatively small containers.

Most of these are two gallons or less....the A-11 is in a three gallon container.
I think that I could have gotten them larger with more veg time but then they would become too large to move easily.
I like to move my outdoor plants throughout the day to get them the most direct sun possible.
 

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Token

Token

Well-Known Member
I can not believe what this thread is teaching, come on skunk and everyone else that says root size doesn't matter root size=yeild more roots=more nutes picked up.:spew:
 
Tanuvan

Tanuvan

Well-Known Member
I think what skunk is probably saying is that the law of diminishing returns might be at work here with regards to the relationship of root size vs overall yield.

This in my opinion is perhaps one of the most intriguing post on this forum.
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
I really love it when people get the point. Thankyou. I feel that very often so much of what I say is misinterpreted. I think it's because I'm english.

This is so much the point. I see people growing in 15litre containers and only vegging for 6 weeks (from seed). WTF? You could do the same thing in a 1 gallon. I know, because I've done it. Eventual yield is more relative to veg' time than it is to container size.

As indoor growers, most of us don't have massive amounts of room to allow our plants to get to 6'+. I only have flowering room for 3ft-3.5ft plants. I have used 2 gallon containers in that space, that was where i first discovered the nightmare that is lst. It worked, I just didn't think the results were worth the effort. So I moved down to 1 gallon... vegged for the same amount of time and bettered my yield by quite a margin. So I did the same again but this time in 3 litre containers. Bettered my yield again. So i thought fuck it... let's see how far I can push it. Went down to 500ml. I'm doing good... and I won't move back up pot sizes. I'm happy with 500ml and growing a 3ft plant that will yield me a 1.5oz per plant (6 under 1 400w).

Tanuvan said:
I think what skunk is probably saying is that the law of diminishing returns might be at work here with regards to the relationship of root size vs overall yield.
quote]
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SnowWhite

SnowWhite

Well-Known Member
Token said:
I can not believe what this thread is teaching, come on skunk and everyone else that says root size doesn't matter root size=yeild more roots=more nutes picked up.:spew:
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I don't think of it as 'teaching', more of an investigation. People can take from it what they like. As Skunk said before, he's not doing it for anyone elses benefit, just himself. But I am glad he has gone to the trouble of doumenting his findings. It has made for an interesting read and has given me plently to think about. Now it's up to me/us to experiment for ourselves, if interested, and draw our own conclusions. I'm just still not convinced yet.

But I do know Skunky has managed to grow some fat ass colas out of some TINY pots, so very much respect for that :joint:
 
Lacy

Lacy

New Member
Interesting. was wondering about this
normally grow 18/6 but timer failed
2 1/2 weeks growing with 24/7 & never did it before
was too late to switch to 18/6 cycle
growing nice :peace:

nongreenthumb said:
I've read that with 24 hour lighting the plant is given more energy and provides more sugars to help it grow. The article also said that if you use 18 hour lighting then you are losing 25% of your growth so a plant on 18 would take 5 weeks veg where as a plant on 24 would take 4 weeks veg.
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Lacy

Lacy

New Member
makes sense to me
plus smaller pots...more light per plant:peace:
as long as they get all their nutes & have enough space, its all good

skunkushybrid said:
I really love it when people get the point. Thankyou. I feel that very often so much of what I say is misinterpreted. I think it's because I'm english.

This is so much the point. I see people growing in 15litre containers and only vegging for 6 weeks (from seed). WTF? You could do the same thing in a 1 gallon. I know, because I've done it. Eventual yield is more relative to veg' time than it is to container size.

As indoor growers, most of us don't have massive amounts of room to allow our plants to get to 6'+. I only have flowering room for 3ft-3.5ft plants. I have used 2 gallon containers in that space, that was where i first discovered the nightmare that is lst. It worked, I just didn't think the results were worth the effort. So I moved down to 1 gallon... vegged for the same amount of time and bettered my yield by quite a margin. So I did the same again but this time in 3 litre containers. Bettered my yield again. So i thought fuck it... let's see how far I can push it. Went down to 500ml. I'm doing good... and I won't move back up pot sizes. I'm happy with 500ml and growing a 3ft plant that will yield me a 1.5oz per plant (6 under 1 400w).

Tanuvan said:
I think what skunk is probably saying is that the law of diminishing returns might be at work here with regards to the relationship of root size vs overall yield.
Click to expand...
Tanuvan said:
quote]​
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Lord Dangly Bits

Lord Dangly Bits

Well-Known Member
trapper said:
i have an outdoor that gets shultz 10 54 10(price 3.99)and mollases,i have one that get gh three parts plus carboload and guano,there is no differance in growth,but maybe the differance will be in potency.im tempted by all the advertisements,about beast buds and so forth,and i have put the money in,i find that growing is a great hobby and theraputic,and i am very limited by health,so im home alot,but the hype of this gram per watt i find misleading,and is desighned for people to spend money on products,im not saying a gram per watt is not achievable,it is,ive just never personally met any one who has and ive known quite a few who also knew quite a few,and the one who claims to have has also cought a 200 pound sturgeon fish.very few people can have the perfect growing inviroment indoors,it is very expensive.
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Trapper. Sturgeons do not stop growing until they die, and they do not die from old age. They only die from disease, infections, or sickness. A crew of scientist went down in a diving bell on the Chehalis River in Washington state. When they brought them up they were in Shock. They said there was sturgeons down there big enough to swallow a man whole. They said 25-30 feet long, weighting close to 2,500 lbs. In the old days, men used to hook the big ones in a small boat, then run to shore and leash them to a team of horses to pull them in. You can only keep sturgeons between 3 and 6 feet. The reason is, when a sturgeon is young it is one sex, then it changes to the other. I can not remember which sex comes first. I think it is female. So some peoples out landish claims might be true...
 
Cannabian

Cannabian

Well-Known Member
skunkushybrid said:
Here's the plan. Roots are merely a mechanism for the plant to uptake nutrients... therefore, so long as the plant is getting fed regularly enough... a small root system should be capable of sustaining a large plant.

I have 18 plants in 0.5litre containers. So far they've been vegging for 13 days. Made a couple of mistakes... I treated this like a sog grow, when it isn't, I also allowed them to stretch a little.

DAY 13

Here's the feed I've just given into 9litres of water:

Sensi Grow A: 18ml
Sensi Grow B: 18ml
MET Grow: 20ml
Fulvic Acid: 11ml
B52: 40ml
Barricade: 1.5ml
Cannazym: 22.5ml

I'm also going to be lowering the light very soon. I'll provide pic's later.:mrgreen:
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I tried this methodology by applying these principles in a bubbler set up where roots have unlimited room to grow and the same set up with root trimming. 3 week old clone in veg

Results after 3 weeks (6 total) were :

Untouched roots: plants were 6" taller and leafier, 4 more nodes than trimmed

trimmed: very tight nodes but short plant not as leafy and started to look gangly before I left it alone to grow again. my 2c
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
hmmm....just so I am clear, you are saying you have two essentially identical situations, but in one your physically trim the roots and in anotehr you leave the roots untrimmed...? my apologies if I have misunderstood what you have put forward?
 
Cannabian

Cannabian

Well-Known Member
tahoe58 said:
hmmm....just so I am clear, you are saying you have two essentially identical situations, but in one your physically trim the roots and in anotehr you leave the roots untrimmed...? my apologies if I have misunderstood what you have put forward?
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Yeah thats right same bubbler just trimmed one. Wont do that again, then agian I didnt use any chemicals either perhaps it could have helpled, but would have had to use sep bubblers.
 
tahoe58

tahoe58

Well-Known Member
thanks for ur reply....I do not know this for a fact....however, it seems to me that any physical damage to root structures will reduce their effectiveness as they try to heal. this is not that same a placing the plant in a restricted growth area...i.e., smaller pot. the physical damage is something that the plant will desperately try to repair. the restricted space will be an limitation, but only once it has reached the threshold of development and then will no longer be able to grow any further.

Again, my apologies if I am misunderstanding your intent.
 
Tanuvan

Tanuvan

Well-Known Member
I believe this thread deserves a good summation and a sticky. My hat is off and beer raised to skunk for his efforts!
 
P

Puffin Afatty

Active Member
I find this an interesting discussion...I do a regeneration in a flood and drain system...I notice the plant grew better in generation 2 and 3 than in gen 1...I attributed this to the idea that the roots took 3 gens to completely fill the container...Now I wonder if the cannazyme or even root trimming would benefit Snow White in future gens??
 
skunkushybrid

skunkushybrid

New Member
I find regeneration an interesting discussion... Do you use mychorrhizal fungi to help in the regeneration?
Puffin Afatty said:
I find this an interesting discussion...I do a regeneration in a flood and drain system...I notice the plant grew better in generation 2 and 3 than in gen 1...I attributed this to the idea that the roots took 3 gens to completely fill the container...Now I wonder if the cannazyme or even root trimming would benefit Snow White in future gens??
Click to expand...
 
P

Puffin Afatty

Active Member
I use GH nutes and the Lucas Formula...I add floralicious plus and green fuse bloom...that's it...I dont change the res at all, since seedlings, 4 gen and counting...I just add rod water and/or nutes to keep ppm at 900 and ph to 5.5-5.8...all I do is flip lights from 12 to 24 and harvest Snow White every 10-11 weeks(including reveg)...
 
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