Scarlet for those accused of rape on campus

Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
londonfog said:
yeah I kind of like details. Gives a better picture of the situation.
Would not a third party be hearsay ? What evidence did they have to arrest him besides her word. Was she bruised up ? Was she arrested for filing a false report. Did your friend pursue her arrest ? Would you say this happens more than a woman being actually raped ?
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Regarding details that you ask about: The third party recorded the conversation (as I said earlier) so it wasn't hearsay. My friend and the woman had lived together so there was probably jizz somewhere in her (hey you wanted to know). I don't know about any bruises.

My friend did not pursue a suit afterward, he was counselled to let the matter alone. She had no money and a lawsuit at that time would be fruitless, he could sue later if she came into money. The court just dropped the case, no suit against the woman. The DA wanted to show how tough he was on sexual assault -- this part I don't know, its what my friend said so take that with a grain of salt. They did drop everything quickly. My guess is that the DA didn't want his mistake to get any attention, although they were pretty vocal about the arrest when it happened. Politics matter.

And no, I don't think this is more common than rape, I guess its pretty rare. What difference does that make? An innocent person was put through the wringer over this. 6 mos in jail while awaiting trial because he couldn't make bail, held under special confinement because other prisoners wouldn't take kindly to a rapist, job lost, home lost, dog fostered out to a new home, reputation sullied, it was ugly.

Would you countenance a small number of false arrests and convictions if society did a better job of protecting rape victims?
 
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Rob Roy

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
@Uncle Buck

It is interesting that you correctly are repulsed by acts of rape, but that you then endorse other kinds of nonconsensual and potentially violent interactions and even advocate for them.

In other words, you believe in two opposing things at once. Have you ever considered that your hypocrisy is a blatant example of your control issues?
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
Fogdog said:
Regarding details that you ask about: The third party recorded the conversation (as I said earlier) so it wasn't hearsay. My friend and the woman had lived together so there was probably jizz somewhere in her (hey you wanted to know). I don't know about any bruises.

My friend did not pursue a suit afterward, he was counselled to let the matter alone. She had no money and a lawsuit at that time would be fruitless, he could sue later if she came into money. The court just dropped the case, no suit against the woman. The DA wanted to show how tough he was on sexual assault -- this part I don't know, its what my friend said so take that with a grain of salt. They did drop everything quickly. My guess is that the DA didn't want his mistake to get any attention, although they were pretty vocal about the arrest when it happened. Politics matter.

And no, I don't think this is more common than rape, I guess its pretty rare. What difference does that make? An innocent person was put through the wringer over this. 6 mos in jail while awaiting trial because he couldn't make bail, held under special confinement because other prisoners wouldn't take kindly to a rapist, job lost, home lost, dog fostered out to a new home, reputation sullied, it was ugly.

Would you countenance a small number of false arrests and convictions if society did a better job of protecting rape victims?
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Sorry to hear about your friend's persecution. You have direct experience with false rape allegations. I have direct experience with false rape allegations. There was the Duke LaCrosse case. There was the UVA "gang-rape" case. It doesn't seem as uncommon as you suggest.

Personally, I would never accept false convictions of innocent people as the price of better anything.

Look through this thread and you will see comments like, "those NFL players beating their wives weren't charge before either". That sounds a lot like, "get a rope" to me.

I like bright lines between positions when I can get them, most issues have some fuzzy, out of focus aspects. Supporting Kangaroo courts is a nice bright line.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
Sorry to hear about your friend's persecution. You have direct experience with false rape allegations. I have direct experience with false rape allegations. There was the Duke LaCrosse case. There was the UVA "gang-rape" case. It doesn't seem as uncommon as you suggest.

Personally, I would never accept false convictions of innocent people as the price of better anything.

Look through this thread and you will see comments like, "those NFL players beating their wives weren't charge before either". That sounds a lot like, "get a rope" to me.

I like bright lines between positions when I can get them, most issues have some fuzzy, out of focus aspects. Supporting Kangaroo courts is a nice bright line.
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We make such noise over the cases when a false accusation is made but only now are debating how to deal with the fact that between 4-5 per 1000 of women in college will be sexually assaulted. Rape is reported only 20% of the time, so only 1 woman per thousand actually reports the rape. Rape is a crime that shames the victim and is discussed as a statistic while each individual case of false accusation is treated as an outrage. The numbers are far and away pointing out that rapists are getting away with their crime.

"Kangaroo courts" is as biased a way of looking at the situation as "get a rope". The police and justice system are making a farce of the situation too. I'm leaning on the side of the victims and making sure they are protected. Educate the boys and girls about what they are getting into when engaging in what in most cases is a wonderful thing. Unfortunately, the criminal justice system isn't effective at handling the matter when a rape or false accusation takes place, which explains the need for these inquiry panels After thinking about it, I'm glad the colleges are stepping up or being forced to bring extra resources to bear on this problem along with the existing justice system. Saying that we should go back to the old way .is just accepting high rates of rape.
 
desert dude

desert dude

Well-Known Member
I don't know where you are getting the 4 to 5 per 1000 number. The hysterical claims I hear are 20 per 100.

The boys and girls in college are adults. If an adult man rapes a woman, charge him with a crime. If an adult woman falsely claims she has been raped, charge her with a crime.

Conducting trials in a pseudo-court where due process has been discarded will lead to politically motivated persecution of currently unpopular people. As we are seeing actually happen.
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
desert dude said:
I don't know where you are getting the 4 to 5 per 1000 number. The hysterical claims I hear are 20 per 100.

The boys and girls in college are adults. If an adult man rapes a woman, charge him with a crime. If an adult woman falsely claims she has been raped, charge her with a crime.

Conducting trials in a pseudo-court where due process has been discarded will lead to politically motivated persecution of currently unpopular people. As we are seeing actually happen.
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You have a persecution complex, persecution of white males, especially. The people we discussed earlier were falsely accused, not persecuted. Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany, blacks were persecuted in the south during the Jim Crow era. There is a difference. Why are you continually seeing outrage and springing to the defense of a demographic that doesn't need to be defended?

You also have trouble sorting out facts. I'm not surprised you'd cast an accurate number in the same vein as one that is ridiculous. You lost your sense of reality a while ago. The rate of rape or sexual assault in 2013 was 4-5 per 1000 student women. Its also about the same for non-students of the same age. Citatation:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

Nobody is saying these investigatory panels are courts and nobody is put on trial in them. Again, you are having trouble dealing with facts and your phobia of persecution has clouded your mind.

Turning my earlier question around, would you want the 4-5 rapes per 1000 to go unresolved to prevent a false accusation from being made? In practice that's what's going on right now.
 
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MidnightWolf

MidnightWolf

Active Member
desert dude said:
I don't know where you are getting the 4 to 5 per 1000 number. The hysterical claims I hear are 20 per 100.

The boys and girls in college are adults. If an adult man rapes a woman, charge him with a crime. If an adult woman falsely claims she has been raped, charge her with a crime.

Conducting trials in a pseudo-court where due process has been discarded will lead to politically motivated persecution of currently unpopular people. As we are seeing actually happen.
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You nailed that! My sentiments exactly!
 
C

ChesusRice

Well-Known Member
NewtoMJ said:
You got booked on a traffic offense? What the hell!
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Driving without a license. Yes at one time in my state this was a jailable offense

At one time the majority of prisoners in County jail were traffic offenders and those that didn't pay child support
 
MidnightWolf

MidnightWolf

Active Member
Fogdog said:
You have a persecution complex, persecution of white males, especially. The people we discussed earlier were falsely accused, not persecuted. Jews were persecuted in Nazi Germany, blacks were persecuted in the south during the Jim Crow era. There is a difference. Why are you continually seeing outrage and springing to the defense of a demographic that doesn't need to be defended?

You also have trouble sorting out facts. I'm not surprised you'd cast an accurate number in the same vein as one that is ridiculous. You have lost your sense of reality a while ago. The sexual assault rate is 4-5 per 1000 student women. Its also about the same for non-students of the same age. Citatation:
http://www.bjs.gov/content/pub/pdf/rsavcaf9513.pdf

Nobody is saying these investigatory panels are courts and nobody is put on trial in them. Again, you are having trouble dealing with facts and your phobia of persecution has clouded your mind.

Turning my earlier question around, would you want the 4-5 rapes per 1000 to go unresolved to prevent a false accusation from being made? In practice that's what's going on right now.
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And if it's found later to be a false accusation, the guy is still labeled a rapist in his school records? Nice......! Love the High Times phoney ass report by that bitch of a reporter. Why was she not charged?
 
MidnightWolf

MidnightWolf

Active Member
schuylaar said:
it's a felony in florida, so it's all records.

i believe this should be according to the rules of your state not a college, especially since the person wasn't even convicted.

many people are wrongly convicted in the us for specifically this.

the truth is important, but not at the expense of reputation.

i'm with DD (dum dum).
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I agree. Even after the " oops, I made a mistake, it wasn't him." happens, the stigma never goes away! And I am sorry but there ARE incredibly vindictive women out there, I know I used to be married to one!
 
Fogdog

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
MidnightWolf said:
And if it's found later to be a false accusation, the guy is still labeled a rapist in his school records? Nice......! Love the High Times phoney ass report by that bitch of a reporter. Why was she not charged?
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Its a pretty fucked up mess right now, agreed.

By way, the FBI estimated that about 8% of rape cases are false accusations. Focus on that if you like. The other side of that coin is that 92% of reported rape were just that. Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Who says that a false accusation would remain on a person's records if they were able to clear their name? Are you more concerned about the chance of a false accusation than very real and current situation today where women are being sexually assaulted, know the perpetrator and have to face them every day while trying to get an education?
 
MidnightWolf

MidnightWolf

Active Member
Fogdog said:
Its a pretty fucked up mess right now, agreed.

By way, the FBI estimated that about 8% of rape cases are false accusations. Focus on that if you like. The other side of that coin is that 92% of reported rape were just that. Citation: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/False_accusation_of_rape

Who says that a false accusation would remain on a person's records if they were able to clear their name? Are you more concerned about the chance of a false accusation than very real and current situation today where women are being sexually assaulted, know the perpetrator and have to face them every day while trying to get an education?
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Wasn't it stated earlier that whether or not a guy was convicted that the scarlet letter would remain in his college records? Any guy that rapes a woman should not only be castrated but have his dick cut off as well. I just don't like how the stigma remains with the 8%. even under false accusations. Forever, think about that.
 
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