science is forever finding more .

Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Man is one of the best endurance runners in the animal kingdom. Our ability to perspire from modified hair follicles and running upright using only strong lower body muscles while not wasting energy using less efficient arm muscles while freeing them up for using weapons and other tasks is what gives us the predatory edge.

It's disingenuous to criticize and argue against natural selection just because you can't figure out why something evolved (or didn't). Argument from ignorance is all that amounts to.
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Well put, MP. You caught me in a fallacy... ;)

Humans do make some what good hunters, but it's because we forage, scavenge, hunt, and grow our own food that we prosper.

There are far better hunters in the animal kingdom, there are far better examples of almost everything in the animal kingdom, save intelligence and adaptability.

For hunting, cougars and leopards specifically come to mind, they have some of the highest success rates. Where they fail is their comparative intelligence an ability to adapt to new conditions. That's where humans excel, not because we're the strongest, fastest, have the most endurance, or any other number of traits. We are smart, and we adapt. That's natural selection baby, the best at adaptation wins! :D
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Specifically MP, about the humans being one of the best endurance runners... that doesn't seem right...

I just think of camels, and wolves, and other plains animals, etc., it's at the least, un-intuitive to me that humans would be among the best.
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Beefbisquit said:
Specifically MP, about the humans being one of the best endurance runners... that doesn't seem right...

I just think of camels, and wolves, and other plains animals, etc., it's at the least, un-intuitive to me that humans would be among the best.
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The best current runners (like Mexico's Tarahumara) are pretty amazing.
The premise makes great sense to me. After all, there are so many species of prey animal. Kudu are fair game to this approach, but pronghorn wouldn't be. It's about duty cycle imo ... the prey animals with a high duty cycle (like wolves and horses) would be less at risk to a persistence hunt.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit said:
Specifically MP, about the humans being one of the best endurance runners... that doesn't seem right...


I just think of camels, and wolves, and other plains animals, etc., it's at the least, un-intuitive to me that humans would be among the best.
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IMO, this is a great example of why our intuition and common sense often fail us and gets contradicted by the evidence. It's the same mistake that blazinkill made wrt losing body hair but needing animal pelts. Intutively a good argument. But the evidence overrules.
 
blazinkill504

blazinkill504

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
I couldn't care less if you fucking swear all day long, what I take offense to is your personal attack, which is why I elaborated and said to not be a dick IF you want to have a discussion. You can be a dick as much as you would like as long as you don't care if people actually respond to your posts or respond negatively.

I never claimed it is necessary to have found all human remains in all locations in order to make reasonable scientific conclusions. That is ridiculous on it's face.


You didn't ask a question in good faith. You asked it then immediately followed up with, "if you believe that then you're a fuckin idiot son"
If that's not a rhetorical question then IDK what is.
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ok so who are you captain save a hoe? when did i personally attack you? i asked my question in good faith, but thanks for tryin to tell me what i was doin. i forgot you're in my head. i made that statement because of the post above it by BA that said "you're a fuckin idiot if you deny evolution." notice i didnt say the same shit to cannabineer because he wasnt throwin insults around. when he said what he had to say i didnt call him stupid or a fuckin idiot for what he posted. i said it didnt make sense to me and threw no insults.

now as far as me thinkin you called me ignorant thats my fault for readin it wrong and thats by bad. you though were talkin about my question sayin im ignorant to what? because i said i didnt get somethin about evolution and asked a question? thats why you got the response you got from me. now it was on you to get butt hurt about it seein how i said IF you feel that way. never did i say mindphuk you're ignorant as fuck for this this and this.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
blazinkill504 said:
ok so who are you captain save a hoe? when did i personally attack you? i asked my question in good faith, but thanks for tryin to tell me what i was doin. i forgot you're in my head. i made that statement because of the post above it by BA that said "you're a fuckin idiot if you deny evolution." notice i didnt say the same shit to cannabineer because he wasnt throwin insults around. when he said what he had to say i didnt call him stupid or a fuckin idiot for what he posted. i said it didnt make sense to me and threw no insults.

now as far as me thinkin you called me ignorant thats my fault for readin it wrong and thats by bad. you though were talkin about my question sayin im ignorant to what? because i said i didnt get somethin about evolution and asked a question? thats why you got the response you got from me. now it was on you to get butt hurt about it seein how i said IF you feel that way. never did i say mindphuk you're ignorant as fuck for this this and this.
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If I misinterpreted a legitimate question as rhetorical when it wasn't, I apologize. I hope you can see why that comment made it appear you weren't really asking but trying to show how acceptance of evolution is stupid. When you say things like, "how much fuckin sense does it make for early humans in russia to shed all their fur just to kill and try to put fur back on themselves?" Your implication, whether intended or not, is that it doesn't make sense, therefore evolution is wrong. It does not sound like an honest inquiry but that you are already convinced of the answer and this is merely a chance to try to portray evolution in a negative light.

Like I said before, if you want honest answers about the current state of evolutionary theory, I would be happy to try and answer them to the best of my ability. I do have the requisite background and degrees in biology although I am no Stephen Gould or Richard Dawkins.
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
i second this and being that i am part of the world of strength and conditioning, i know for a fact that humans are very good at endurance events... just google the what are they called yupas or something up in the mountains in south america i think or asia, they have these races all across the mountains and these dudes are very well adapted... there was show awhile back that took athletes all around the world to compete in local events like that, they could not compete with the slowest of the slow...

also, have you ever tried running a full marathon? that shit is intense and crazy!!!! a full iron man event is even more crazy, yet humans do finish them and humans do set records on these courses...

our muscles adapt very well to any stress we place them under albeit that you are predisposed to having a higher number of type 1 muscle fibers which are predominately for endurance events...



cannabineer said:
The best current runners (like Mexico's Tarahumara) are pretty amazing.
The premise makes great sense to me. After all, there are so many species of prey animal. Kudu are fair game to this approach, but pronghorn wouldn't be. It's about duty cycle imo ... the prey animals with a high duty cycle (like wolves and horses) would be less at risk to a persistence hunt.
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Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
IMO, this is a great example of why our intuition and common sense often fail us and gets contradicted by the evidence. It's the same mistake that blazinkill made wrt losing body hair but needing animal pelts. Intutively a good argument. But the evidence overrules.
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Albeit the argument in the article is made from, from what I can tell, a purely hot climate perspective. African plains, etc. It specifically mentions in the heat, and during the hot days.

Good luck chasing a deer through a Canadian coniferous forest, I don't care how far you can run! :D


We should also keep in mind it's only one opinion on the matter, although from what I can tell it sounds pretty good. Anthropology is like forensics, you can only tell what most likely happened.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit said:
Albeit the argument in the article is made from, from what I can tell, a purely hot climate perspective. African plains, etc. It specifically mentions in the heat, and during the hot days.

Good luck chasing a deer through a Canadian coniferous forest, I don't care how far you can run! :D


We should also keep in mind it's only one opinion on the matter, although from what I can tell it sounds pretty good. Anthropology is like forensics, you can only tell what most likely happened.
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It's not just one opinion, it actually has support from others presenting various lines of evidence. I believe by the time humans made it to the north, it was even later than the Neanderthal. That means that we have already developed weapons and probably primitive language, enough to communicate hunting skills and coordinating efforts from a distance as well as excellent tracking skills that still are useful today in forests.
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
[QUote
  • Good luck chasing a deer through a Canadian coniferous forest, I don't care how far you can run!​


    ​
[/QUOTE]

If you are good at tracking you will not have problem tracking a deer... there is no reason in a full on sprint behind a deer, it is all about the hunt!
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member

  • Good luck chasing a deer through a Canadian coniferous forest, I don't care how far you can run
    ​
    ​
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If you are good at tracking you will not have problem tracking a deer... there is no reason in a full on sprint behind a deer, it is all about the hunt!


Have you ever tried still hunting? It's ridiculously hard.....
 
blazinkill504

blazinkill504

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
If I misinterpreted a legitimate question as rhetorical when it wasn't, I apologize. I hope you can see why that comment made it appear you weren't really asking but trying to show how acceptance of evolution is stupid. When you say things like, "how much fuckin sense does it make for early humans in russia to shed all their fur just to kill and try to put fur back on themselves?" Your implication, whether intended or not, is that it doesn't make sense, therefore evolution is wrong. It does not sound like an honest inquiry but that you are already convinced of the answer and this is merely a chance to try to portray evolution in a negative light.

Like I said before, if you want honest answers about the current state of evolutionary theory, I would be happy to try and answer them to the best of my ability. I do have the requisite background and degrees in biology although I am no Stephen Gould or Richard Dawkins.
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i can see where how i wrote it lead to believe i wasnt askin for a real answer and ill correct myself from that in the future. if i say somethin doesnt make sense to me tho it doesnt mean i think its wrong it means i dont get it and would love to see an elaboration/theory/explination of what i asked.
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
olylifter420 said:
Still hunting as in using a deer blind?
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LOL... I'll take that as a no.

Still hunting is walking incredibly slowly, and quietly through the woods actively stalking animals.

Even with scent-blockers, and clothes with silver woven into them to reduce scent, getting close enough to a Deer to hit it with my Matthews Ultra 2 70# compound bow is ridiculously hard to even get within 100 yards....

Like I said, animals are full time prey.... humans are part-time hunters....


I'd love to see a "tracker" track something through this; :D

stock-photo-dense-northwest-canadian-rain-forest-64824157.jpg
 
olylifter420

olylifter420

Well-Known Member
I call that stalking, but i only have done that hunting hogs...

I enjoy being on a deer blind from 4-10am waiting for the right prey

I dont believe in scentloks... Good hunting techniques work best like using the wind to your advantage...




QUOTE=Beefbisquit;6806029]LOL... I'll take that as a no.

Still hunting is walking incredibly slowly, and quietly through the woods actively stalking animals.

Even with scent-blockers, and clothes with silver woven into them to reduce scent, getting close enough to a Deer to hit it with my Matthews Ultra 2 70# compound bow is ridiculously hard to even get within 100 yards....

Like I said, animals are full time prey.... humans are part-time hunters....[/QUOTE]
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
olylifter420 said:
I call that stalking, but i only have done that hunting hogs...


I enjoy being on a deer blind from 4-10am waiting for the right prey

I dont believe in scentloks... Good hunting techniques work best like using the wind to your advantage...
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Now your turn...

"olylifter420 has exceeded their stored private messages quota and cannot accept further messages until they clear some space"
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
olylifter420 said:
I call that stalking, but i only have done that hunting hogs...

I enjoy being on a deer blind from 4-10am waiting for the right prey

I dont believe in scentloks... Good hunting techniques work best like using the wind to your advantage...
Click to expand...

I use the wind, as well as scent blockers to my advantage.

I find blind hunting boring, and borderline un-sportsman like... it's hella easy to shoot a deer when you're 15-20 feet up in the air looking at a giant pile of apples... :p
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit said:
LOL... I'll take that as a no.

Still hunting is walking incredibly slowly, and quietly through the woods actively stalking animals.

Even with scent-blockers, and clothes with silver woven into them to reduce scent, getting close enough to a Deer to hit it with my Matthews Ultra 2 70# compound bow is ridiculously hard to even get within 100 yards....

Like I said, animals are full time prey.... humans are part-time hunters....


I'd love to see a "tracker" track something through this; :D

View attachment 1945836
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My god, is that all weed? ;) There is a fantastic Nova three part series entitled, 'Becoming Human', I highly recommend watching it. It has really good CGI and is well paced. It shows how we evolved losing hair and had the ability to sweat through our skin, and how we used this adaptation to run down much faster animals:

http://video.pbs.org/video/1312522241/
 
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