Second grow dwc to autopotspider farmer self watering system 100% coco

Hi guys, here I am doing my second grow with a total switch from dwc to autopots (spider farmer equivalent). First grow was a success however ran I in to a few problems along the way and was a bit of a headache to maintain for my busy work life. However I am reaping the rewards now either due to the change is system and/or the mass of experience I gained from my first grow.

I've been watching multiple videos including Autopotomus who has pretty much made me switch after seeing the absolute beasts he grows.

So here is my grow as it stands I started my plants in normal plant pots out side while my previous harvest was drying and then transferred to my tent 3 days after sprout once I had trimmed my buds.

I took a risk with my seeds after watching Mr Autopot and fed at 2.0 EC as losing a couple of seeds in a week isn't a huge problem I can always start again.

I am currently at the 13 day mark and they are absolutely massive vs my first grow in dwc currently running 2.2ec and 450ppfd off light. Hope this grow runs much smoother. 26c 80% Rh 5.8ph and 2.0ec on critical Bilbo with air domes in the fabric pots. Here are some photos of my dwc vs autopots day by day equivalents.

Per my sig block, I'm a big believer in "lotsa light" so kudos to you for feeding your plants well ("feed" because light is how a plant makes food; nutrients are how fertilizer companies make money). High light in veg helps ensure a lot of infrastructure for flower.

Something you might want to look into—the spout of the humidifier hose is below the body of the hose. When the vapor from the humidifier condenses, it will drip on the floor (or your plant).

To avoid that, keep the end of the hose higher than the body so that the flows back toward the humidifier. You'll also have to make sure that there are no U-shaped bends in the hose or else water will gather in the bend and will, eventually, block the hose.

It took a while to figure out how to get the hoses set up, but it was just one more thing to not have to muck with once I figured it out.

Delps8 said:

Per my sig block, I'm a big believer in "lotsa light" so kudos to you for feeding your plants well ("feed" because light is how a plant makes food; nutrients are how fertilizer companies make money). High light in veg helps ensure a lot of infrastructure for flower.

Something you might want to look into—the spout of the humidifier hose is below the body of the hose. When the vapor from the humidifier condenses, it will drip on the floor (or your plant).

To avoid that, keep the end of the hose higher than the body so that the flows back toward the humidifier. You'll also have to make sure that there are no U-shaped bends in the hose or else water will gather in the bend and will, eventually, block the hose.

It took a while to figure out how to get the hoses set up, but it was just one more thing to not have to muck with once I figured it out.

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Cheers brother! Totally! Im just trying to learn along the way and trying to experiment with everything's I've learned from everyone who had given invaluable information to me other the last few months and I can literally see the difference day by day! And thanks for that i was wondering why the tent door was wet.. the instructions on the humidifier said not to put a double "u" bend in the pipe so I have been scratching my head but obviously it explains it once it condenses it drips out of the spout I'll go change the direction of if immediately! The bud looks absolutely fucking massive mate sick grow man!

Currently 21 days from sprout using leaf tucking only to maintain the canopy and everything seems to be working well so far. Parameters are 2.2 EC 5.8PH 26C 75% RH. Really enjoying the rapid growth rates this time around. The mountain of knowledge and experience I gained from my first grow is really paying dividends this time around!

limp biffskit said:

Currently 21 days from sprout using leaf tucking only to maintain the canopy and everything seems to be working well so far. Parameters are 2.2 EC 5.8PH 26C 75% RH. Really enjoying the rapid growth rates this time around. The mountain of knowledge and experience I gained from my first grow is really paying dividends this time around!

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Looking great! That's a tremendous amount of growth for the 21 day mark. All of that foliage will thin out as the plant matures.

What's your experience with topping? I top and LST all of my grows. For topping, I usually top at day 21, just above the fourth node. I don't want to drill holes in the top of my reservoir so I hang fishing weights on shower hooks for LST.

Your EC also caught my eye. I go with a very light touch on nutrients. At the 21 day mark, I'm <EC 1.0 but that's partially my stoic nature. If you're running ~double that and getting excellent such excellent results, that helps me re-think my approach.

Delps8 said:

Looking great! That's a tremendous amount of growth for the 21 day mark. All of that foliage will thin out as the plant matures.

What's your experience with topping? I top and LST all of my grows. For topping, I usually top at day 21, just above the fourth node. I don't want to drill holes in the top of my reservoir so I hang fishing weights on shower hooks for LST.

Your EC also caught my eye. I go with a very light touch on nutrients. At the 21 day mark, I'm <EC 1.0 but that's partially my stoic nature. If you're running ~double that and getting excellent such excellent results, that helps me re-think my approach.

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Thanks Delps! Yeah they are doing amazing! And I've been watching Autopotomus on YouTube and reading between the lines and sieving through the information because he doesn't reveal everything I kind of worked it out between light vpd and EC. But I have changed system to spider farmers Autopot set up. I topped my last grow did some last defoliation ect but it think I went ott with just about everything other than the EC. But watching Autopotomus he only leaf tucks and his plants pretty much grow like they've been automatically lst and scrogged.. absolutely enormous plants 1lb autos! They are ABSOLUTELY FUCKING MASSIVE. However I'm not sure what will happen to the EC range when I switch to 12/12 because he runs 24hr lighting but I might just got for it take the risk and run the high feed.. I've been thinking about this for a few days because I think they'll be ready to flower in the next 10 days and cannas suggested coco feed range is no where near as ambitious in mid flower vs what I have ran from seed? Who knows they'll either burn or they won't but I'm willing to take the chance just to find out? I'll let you know in 2 weeks or so if I've killed them or not hahahah

Also for an estimation on size they are around 35cm/14inch tall and 45cm/18inch wide.

limp biffskit said:

Thanks Delps! Yeah they are doing amazing! And I've been watching Autopotomus on YouTube and reading between the lines and sieving through the information because he doesn't reveal everything I kind of worked it out between light vpd and EC. But I have changed system to spider farmers Autopot set up. I topped my last grow did some last defoliation ect but it think I went ott with just about everything other than the EC. But watching Autopotomus he only leaf tucks and his plants pretty much grow like they've been automatically lst and scrogged.. absolutely enormous plants 1lb autos! They are ABSOLUTELY FUCKING MASSIVE. However I'm not sure what will happen to the EC range when I switch to 12/12 because he runs 24hr lighting but I might just got for it take the risk and run the high feed.. I've been thinking about this for a few days because I think they'll be ready to flower in the next 10 days and cannas suggested coco feed range is no where near as ambitious in mid flower vs what I have ran from seed? Who knows they'll either burn or they won't but I'm willing to take the chance just to find out? I'll let you know in 2 weeks or so if I've killed them or not hahahah

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Unless you top your plants, which removes the apical stem, you end up with a "Christmas tree" shaped plant. And that plant shape is very hard to light evenly if your plants grow to a medium or tall size. Topping gets rid of the Christmas tree shape and makes it easier to grow a plant with an even canopy.

Just checked out parts of his interview with Mr Grow It. There's some good info there but he's still got to deal with that apical stem.

Topped and LST'd Gelato auto. This plant is big because it's getting a lot of light.

limp biffskit said:

Also for an estimation on size they are around 35cm/14inch tall and 45cm/18inch wide.

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That's really interesting that you're getting that shape. What light are you using?

Delps8 said:

That's really interesting that you're getting that shape. What light are you using?

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I'm just using 2 x sf2000 evos on full blast about 2 ft away for perfect temps and they cover my tent pretty much wall to wall I couldn't find anything the suited my tent any better. I'll top them tomorrow when I get home. I wasn't going to do it because his look really even but he's also growing autos so he does have veg time on his size so it's not really an option for him thinking about it. Really really excited for this grow. New grow system, new strategies, new experiences. I made by first grow seed to havest yeilding just short of 13oz so I have plenty I reserve in case I make a mistake so the pressure is off time to see if the high ec will cause problems when switching to 12/12 there's only one way to find out haha!

limp biffskit said:

I'm just using 2 x sf2000 evos on full blast about 2 ft away for perfect temps and they cover my tent pretty much wall to wall I couldn't find anything the suited my tent any better.

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Got it. You're in a 4' x 4'?
How are you measuring PPFD?

limp biffskit said:

I'll top them tomorrow when I get home. I wasn't going to do it because his look really even but he's also growing autos so he does have veg time on his size so it's not really an option for him thinking about it.

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I just watched one of his YT videos with Dr Growit. Appreciate the nudge.

"leaf tucking" - he's able to get the apical stem down to the level of the lower branches. That's crucial because that allows the growth hormones to not be "captured" by the apical stem but are distributed across the rest of the plant. Obviously, a good strategy. And a very good interview. Mr Grow always does a good job and Autopotomus is excellent as a guest.

A couple of points - he doesn't use a PAR meter because he doesn't need to and that makes perfect sense. A meter will tell you how much light is falling on a plant. One use for that is that you can get up to the light saturation point more quickly because you don't have to guess. But it's a means to an end because only the plant can tell you how much light it can use. And that's all that matter.

From the video:

46:00
"As long as you give them as much light as they possibly can take, they will grow huge. They don't need darkness."

Started laughing when he said that.

That's why he ditched the meter—he's maxing them out on PPFD and he's growing them 24/0. Put those two together and that's a "DLI" ("daily light integral" = how many mols of light the plant gets in 24 hours) that's in the same range that I run which is in the 70-80 region. That's a shitton of light but, as Autopotomus shows, autos are light whores will thrive at that level.

His justification for 24/0 was sound, too. I've run 24/0 for most of the grow but then cut it back. Check out the comments for day 113 and onward. The way I thought of it was "There's so much weed in there that there's no point in maxing out the light." Also, the comment on day 85 was when I decided that the conventional wisdom light levels just weren't for me. This was my third grow and that's when I drank the Bugbee Koolaid (DeBacco, on YT, digests a lot of the research that Bugbee does and puts it in PowerPoint.)



Another thing that Autopotomus talks about and that you're doing is the recommendation of higher EC. Why I appreciate your comment is that I've been on the "lean and mean" side but I need to rethink that. A pattern that I have seen is that in about the second week, I've been getting some imbalances. They clear up in a few days but, perhaps, I could avoid the issue entirely with a higher EC.

limp biffskit said:

Really really excited for this grow. New grow system, new strategies, new experiences. I made by first grow seed to havest yeilding just short of 13oz so I have plenty I reserve in case I make a mistake so the pressure is off time to see if the high ec will cause problems when switching to 12/12 there's only one way to find out haha!

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Exciting times, no doubt. You're definitely on the right track!

No I'm in a odd sized "4x2" ..slightly larger it's 1.4m x 0.7x or 4.3ft x 2.3ft. and I just measure it with my phone app nothing fancy. It's just for of a gauge.. I know his lights are the same power as mine give or take so I've guesses the height and then take a light measurement just for my own records for me to fall back on
No worries man definitely worth listening to isnt it. There's some really interesting topics spoken about on there and also Dr bugbees.. between them 2 videos I've totally changed my mind on my growing situation wish I had of seen these before my first grow. How ever I probably wouldn't have understood the first time with how much information I've had to taken in. That's a very organized table man! I think I should create some kind of spread sheet or data table it much more organised than my system haha.

And as for feed I've just taken a risk and trusted his word for the sake of 2 seeds and a week of growth to find out the truth If it can be done and it worked luckily. I'm guessing it will be exactly the same in dwc? Photosynthesis is photosynthesis at the end of the day isn't it?

We shall see the 12/12 light cycle and the high feed 2.5 will tell. But after bugbees talk on lighting I think maybe they will just need more light in the 12 hours of light? What do you think?

limp biffskit said:

No I'm in a odd sized "4x2" ..slightly larger it's 1.4m x 0.7x or 4.3ft x 2.3ft. and I just measure it with my phone app nothing fancy. It's just for of a gauge.. I know his lights are the same power as mine give or take so I've guesses the height and then take a light measurement just for my own records for me to fall back on

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Very true. It's another tool for a grower to use.

limp biffskit said:

No worries man definitely worth listening to isnt it. There's some really interesting topics spoken about on there and also Dr bugbees.. between them 2 videos I've totally changed my mind on my growing situation wish I had of seen these before my first grow. How ever I probably wouldn't have understood the first time with how much information I've had to taken in. That's a very organized table man! I think I should create some kind of spread sheet or data table it much more organised than my system haha.

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There's a fair amount of research into setting up the grow environment and it gets pretty detailed but the "short and sweet" is this one (short < 1 hour)

I'm very comfortable with "Do these things and you're good." and that's pretty much what he delivers in that video. I've attached a copy of his thesis is you (or anyone) want to chug through it. It's <200 pages all told and very readable. I've go through PDF's and highlight different bits and pieces because there are some interesting details behind the headlines.

limp biffskit said:

And as for feed I've just taken a risk and trusted his word for the sake of 2 seeds and a week of growth to find out the truth If it can be done and it worked luckily. I'm guessing it will be exactly the same in dwc? Photosynthesis is photosynthesis at the end of the day isn't it?

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Yup. A photon is a photon and the plant can't tell where it's coming from.

limp biffskit said:

We shall see the 12/12 light cycle and the high feed 2.5 will tell. But after bugbees talk on lighting I think maybe they will just need more light in the 12 hours of light? What do you think?

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Uh, oh—he asked for my opinion!

Re. light level during 12/12— I think my last grow as at 42 and maybe 43 mols every now and again. I had some colas at >1100µmol and got some fox tailing so I'll probably put at limit on at 1050 or so. I'm using an Apogee so I can tune it pretty closely but, unless a grower has a calibrated meter, I'd go with 1000µmol and declare victory.

This was one of the screenshots I took from the Westmoreland video. Pretty straightforward.

That's very interesting! I'm going to give that video a watch when I'm home. I've checked my dli this morning and it's 55. Also on a 12 hour light cycle full blast I can't achieve anywhere near that with my lights, 40 being the most so that would suggest I will need to lower my nutrient intensity to possibly 1.6/1.8? That's probably the reason why Autopotomus can run such high ec throughout his grows and grow huge autos because of the 24 hour light cycle?
You have me thinking now the gears in my brain are turning haha

limp biffskit said:

That's very interesting! I'm going to give that video a watch when I'm home.

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Time well spent.

I take screenshots and make notes, as well.

limp biffskit said:

I've checked my dli this morning and it's 55.

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A DLI of 55? Better than 54, not as good as 56.

Cannabis does not need a "lights out" period. A grow that's running 18/6 vs 24/0 is getting 33% less light, all other things being equal. Autopotomus states that he grows his autos with "as much light as they can stand" and he grows 24/0 from drop to chop.

The formula for yield estimation is 0.2 to 0.3 gm of flower per mol of light per square meter of canopy space. A plant grown at "as much light as they can stand", which is probably in the 900-1000µmol range, that's running 24/0 will have a DLI of 82mols. I've run my plants under those conditions and, yeh, you end up with a shitton of weed. That's why I chuckled when I hit the 46:00 minute mark in that video.

If you are in veg and running 18/6, at, say, 800 µmol then your DLI is 52. Bump that to 24 hours and DLI jumps to 69mols. Your plant will be able to generate more sugars, via photosynthesis, and with tend to grow larger. It's not rocket science.

limp biffskit said:

Also on a 12 hour light cycle full blast I can't achieve anywhere near that with my lights, 40 being the most so that would suggest I will need to lower my nutrient intensity to possibly 1.6/1.8?

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If you're not showing an imbalance, I wouldn't change the nutrient level.

limp biffskit said:

That's probably the reason why Autopotomus can run such high ec throughout his grows and grow huge autos because of the 24 hour light cycle?
You have me thinking now the gears in my brain are turning haha

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Autopotomus as a sound grow environment so the only variable is the amount of light. That's why he's so laid back about things—it's the KISS principle.

Good fundamentals and "as much light as they can hand" at 24/0.