Simulating sun rise/set AND SAVING ELECTRICITY

aha yea good point. I could probably wield up something from stainless steel if I wanted to get really serious, make it extremely wide and short. Im sure Im not the only one wondering where those huge DWC buckets came from. Ill stick with my coco for now, just something interesting to think about

The totes in my pic are just 27 gallon totes from Home Depot. They're rated to hold something like 400 LBs, that's not in the center of the lid though, but either way the lids are tough on those totes. They need to be wrapped in panda film or mylar though, they let quite a bit of light in.
Yeah, I had to go back to coco and smart pots myself

well hopefully the coco/airpot combo will do the trick for me, Ill be using root excelurator(house and garden) throughout, and using 3 gal airpots. Ill be vegging for a while since im topping once, so thatll help give the roots some more time, plus gunna try to keep night-time temps as high as I can to keep the roots warm. Im thinking of getting some 5 gal air-pots. The guy at the hydro store is telling me I wont need them in a million years but... he uses 4 inch pots right through flower, so im gunna go with my gut feeling

back onto topic though, Ill be turning my more red spectrum lights on an hour before the bluer ones and turning them off an hour earlier, during veg, and flower. itll be just the easiest way to mimic sunrise sunset without getting too into it

This article from the well known DJ Short has some good information in it!

DJ Short - photoperiod and the angle of light
[HR][/HR] After many years of first-hand experience breeding herb indoors as well as outdoors, I am of the opinion that the two most influential factors involving phenotypic variation and expression among current indoor herb breeding projects are the photoperiod (hours of light per day) and the angle of light in relationship to the growing plant.

Specifically, I find the single most powerful influence to the Indica dominant phenotype is the traditional 18/6 veggie cycle and 12/12 flowering cycle. The 18/6 veggie and 12/12 flower cycle is an attempt, however poor, to mimic the Indica-producing photoperiod. It is my belief that this light cycle strongly influences for Indica phenotypic expression.

Sativa phenotype characteristics will manifest under a more equatorial photoperiod, closer to a 13/11 veggie cycle and an 11/13 flower cycle. This is the light timing range to use to elicit more Sativa dominant expression from your plants.

As for the exact photoperiod formula that I incorporate into my growing/breeding regime, this will presently remain a trade secret. My advice is to experiment with different photoperiods, keep good notes and pay attention. Avoid the 18/6 and 12/12 photoperiods, while tweaking the times a bit differently with each breeding cycle until more desirable results in the finished product and their offspring are noted. Here's a hint: work in half-hour increments or a little less, and good luck!

Angle of light simply refers to the physical angle of light source the plant is dependent upon for growth. Perhaps the greatest difference between indoor and outdoor environments has to do with the angle of light received by the plant. This is also one of the greatest seasonal differences between the Sativa and Indica producing regions.

Outdoors, the main light source is the Sun, with minor influence coming from nearby reflective surfaces. As a plant grows taller and broader outdoors, that angle of light from the sun changes very little in relationship to the growing plant.

Seasonal changes in angle of light increase the further away from the equator one gets. At the equator there is the least amount of seasonal change in angle of light, only about 20°, whereas at the 45th parallel that change is as great as 45°. At the 45th latitude, the Summer Sun is high in the sky while during early Spring and late Fall the sunlight comes from much lower in the sky. The farther one goes from the equator, the greater the difference in seasonal changes regarding angle of light.

Indoors, the lights typically range from a few inches to several feet from the plant. As the plant grows taller, its physical relationship to the bulb's angle of light changes considerably. Most indoor grow rooms have relatively low ceilings, therefore, raising the bulbs may maintain a similar angle of light early on, but eventually the angle changes. The same differences may be noted among plants directly below the bulb and the plants off to the side of the room farther away from the bulb.

Circular light shuttles tend to emulate the arctic summer and create a confusing signal completely unknown to the equatorial Sativa. Straight-track overhead light shuttles are more conducive to inducing the Sativa phenotype.

Many indoor growers try to get their budding plants as close to the light source as possible. Though this may increase bulk production of both bud and trichome, I find that this practice tends to destroy many of the finer aromatic qualities of the herb.

Buds too close to the light tend to express nothing beyond the lower lemon/lime aromas of the fruity spectrum. Sometimes the aroma is no better than a strong chemical/astringent odor and flavor, especially those under High Pressure Sodium light systems. The finer berry flavors tend to favor more distance from the bulb, and will manifest more strongly under High Ultraviolet Metal Halide light systems, especially during the latter stages of flowering.

Something akin to a gymnasium building with high ceilings and super 5000W lights hung far from the growing plants, set at a Sativa-tweaked photoperiod, would be the ultimate indoor grow-op to coax Sativa phenotypes.

Sweet spot fantasy

Nothing will ever rival the great outdoor sweet spots for quality cannabis production. Hopefully, someday, somewhere, someone will be daring and lucky enough to get away with re-establishing some of the great genetic lines in their specific region of origin sweet spots.

Equatorial Sativa varieties are of interest for quality herb production (Thailand, Oaxaca, Colombia, Central Africa, etc.) as the Indica zones are more renowned for hashish production. Parts of Nepal tend to produce both excellent hashish and fine Sativa buds, with some plants reportedly living longer than two years!

I hope that I am able to live long enough to once again experience the joy associated with the fine herbal products from the great regional sweet spots of near ancient lore. It has been a long time and I am looking forward to the day.

This is interesting.
From what he has observed, the buds farther from the lights tend to lean towards the berry spectrum of taste, whereas the closer to the light the more citrus tasting they are. And also he talks about using light to get strains to express certain phenotypes. So, maybe healthy plants isn't the main thing to gain from "mocking" the sunlight, but more using light to mimic the region from which phenotype you desire is from.

when is the phenotype determined? I imagine if you were growing a sativa dominant, you would want to mimic indica lighting to allow you to grow a shorter thicker plant for the indoors. Do you think the different lighting angles and photoperiods would effect the qualities of the smoke or only of the morphology of the plant?

This article/post answered alot of questions as well as bringing up a bunch more.

I think the reason that having your lights very close to the bud takes away from the aroma, is simply that the extra heat acts to volatize the finer essential oils that the flowers are producing. I imagine you could grow under very intense/close light for the entire grow and then during the last week of flower simply pull the lights back a bit and bring the tempuratures in the room down. Let the aromatic oils build up right before harvest and youll have a very nice product. I like the reference to using blue MH lights during the finish of flowering. I was thinking of doing that using 10000K MH bulbs during the last 2 weeks of harvest, to ripen up the buds. the 10000K are sold as fruit ripening bulbs, Im not sure if thats something I should be doing on cannabis or not? I am only guessing he was refering to the 10000k when he said High Ultra Violet MH.

Thedillestpickle said:

when is the phenotype determined? I imagine if you were growing a sativa dominant, you would want to mimic indica lighting to allow you to grow a shorter thicker plant for the indoors. Do you think the different lighting angles and photoperiods would effect the qualities of the smoke or only of the morphology of the plant?

This article/post answered alot of questions as well as bringing up a bunch more.

Click to expand...

From what he is saying, if you take a sativa dominant plant and mimic it's "Sweet Spot" then this plant will be the best quality it possibly can be indoors. I don't know if it's in the post above but I do recall reading one of his articles that said a plant grown in it's actual "Sweet Spot" (he is referring to spots on the globe from which the strain is from) will be better quality then you could possibly make it indoors.

And yes the phenotype question is a good one.
According to him, I could take two clones from the same plant and grow them under different conditions. And these two plants with the same DNA will express different phenotypes.
Pretty interesting

Well I have seen examples of two plants with the same dna looking completely different, one of my favourite thread on RIU is the Kali Mist strain review by hobbes who shows you his DWC single cola Kali Mist in a picture standing next to his coco 4 cola Kali Mist. I am assuming both these plants come from clones of the same mother, but I could be wrong. Anyways two plants look completely different. Im not sure you would want to mimic the "sweet spot" of a true sativa indoors. not unless you have a 20 foot ceiling that is... I am interested in high quality but I think I have my limits haha

Right, I don't mess with sativas because I don't have the room to grow them correctly.
In that article he says you would want something like a gymnasium with 5000w hung high above the plants and also with a tweaked photoperiod as well.
Can't stand the flower times either.
Did Hobbes top the plant with 4 colas?

Yea he topped it to get the 4 colas. In the photo it looks like its been trimmed for drying already. its 4 sticks covered in bud. and the 1 cola kali is similar, one big ass cola with very little side branching but its fluffy and has big leaves sticking out all over. they are two very interesting looking plants, Heres the link, its post #30 and its the first picture in that post. https://www.rollitup.org/smoke-reports/244210-kali-mist-serious-seeds-2.html They look totally different in my oppinion, and I highly doubt he's growing from seed...

weird if you take a closer look at that plant on the right it really looks like he buried the stems above the node where they branch out at the bottom, so in the picture it looks like 4 plants coming out of the medium. Ive never heard of anyone doing that, probably did it to bring the overall height of the plant down. I was trying to see if he topped once or twice but now i cant see(probably twice guessing by the even canopy of the 4 colas?)

How do you think the dry weight of the two plants would compare? Hobbes hasnt really beed around to answer that question

You can grow sativas indoor though, you just gotta put them in flower really short, that plant on the left went into flower at 5 inches!

Also another note on the original topic of this thread: I just recently read somewhere that when growing white widow its best to drop off the number of daylight hours near the end of flower(this would definately be mimicking nature). It suggested bringing it down from 12 hours to 8 hours during the last 2 weeks of flower, claiming that this would bring out even more white trichromes and make the buds that much more resinous. I dont see why this couldnt work with all strains? But the ever present threat of MOLD makes me a little scared.

I might be growing some White Russian soon!(AK47xwhite widow)

You can top once to get four colas, just leave the bottom four branches and take the rest off.
Really hard to tell from pics but I'd guess the one in DWC was a little heavier. Not really a fair comparison because it looks more healthy too.
I've heard of bringing the photperiod down a little at the end to trick your girls into thinking they don't have much time left, so they hurry up and do their thing. I also heard it may bring down the yield a little, but I think it may be worth giving it a shot. My Sweet Tooth doesn't swell much in the last week, I may try this on her this time around.