Socialized Healthcare

Rob Roy said:

In both cases the party that wants to maintain control relies upon force rather than on consensual exchange don't they?

Click to expand...

not at all. the warlords may use force, here in america it is a consensual exchange. it is part of a silly little concept that us people who live in societies call 'the social pact' or something to that effect. in exchange for the benefits of society, you voluntarily give up certain things. and yes, it is voluntary, as you always have the option to abscond to the wilderness or somalia or join the amish and truly 'own yourself', whatever the fuck that means. all for the low, low price of leaving the society.

Rob Roy said:

Do you agree with me that in the United States you don't really own your self etc?

Click to expand...

you always use that meaninglessly obtuse definition of 'owning yourself'. so your question is meaningless. perhaps if you used terminology that wasn't so obtuse, your question would have meaning and i would be able to answer it.

Rob Roy said:

Concerning mooching your money. I'm fine without mooching anyone's money. In fact that is what I advocate. That nobody, no individual or entity should "mooch" or use fraud or force to make another pay for something.

Click to expand...

i bet you still cash the SS check when it gets there.

Parker said:

your childish answers..... these things are to hard for you to understand..... awwwww Did I hurt your little feelings so bad you have to act out now?....thieves like you. Quit stealing boy, earn your keep like a man......Unclebuck doesn't know.....Hopefully, some day, he...will wake up. ...lemmings...

Click to expand...

since you clearly know more about me than i do, please tell me when the last time i stole anything. please do. i will be here waiting, paying for your SS and medicare.

Parker said:

Income tax is government theft.

Click to expand...

no, it isn't. it is called taxation with representation. we fought mightily for it. you could also call it the cost for deriving all the benefits of society. i bet the farm that like rob roy, you will also cash the SS check when it comes.

Keenly2 said:

typical uncle buck answer

"you dont like america you can just git out"

Click to expand...

actually, it was more along the lines of "if you don't like living in society in general you can git out"

actually, i know what your trying to say

and its quite ricockulous

UncleBuck said:

since you clearly know more about me than i do, please tell me when the last time i stole anything. please do. i will be here waiting, paying for your SS and medicare.

Click to expand...

"Oh I don't steal I just support it"
You support government by theft. Your posts verify that.

UncleBuck said:

no, it isn't. it is called taxation with representation. we fought mightily for it. you could also call it the cost for deriving all the benefits of society.

Click to expand...

lmao We did not fight mightily FOR taxation, you moonbat We fought AGAINST taxation.

UncleBuck said:

i bet the farm that like rob roy, you will also cash the SS check when it comes.

Click to expand...

Why shouldn't I. I paid into it. I wont get out of it what I put into it.

Don't bet the farm. You can't. The Death Tax is causing the small farmer to sell the family farm to pay for the illegal theft of his inheritance.

UncleBuck said:

actually, it was more along the lines of "if you don't like living in society in general you can git out"

Click to expand...

No surprise coming from you. Always wanting to use force. I'd rather stay and put this country back onto the principles it was founded on.

Parker said:

"Oh I don't steal I just support it"
You support government by theft. Your posts verify that.

Click to expand...

thank you for admitting you were wrong. you happen to be correct that i do support an income tax, as enumerated in the 16th amendment.

Parker said:

lmao We did not fight mightily FOR taxation, you moonbat We fought AGAINST taxation.

Click to expand...

taxation (WITHOUT REPRESENTATION), actually.

and you call me a moonbat. nice insult.

Parker said:

The Death Tax is causing the small farmer to sell the family farm to pay for the illegal theft of his inheritance.

Click to expand...

the ESTATE tax is not even in effect, genius.

Keenly2 said:

actually, i know what your trying to say

and its quite ricockulous

Click to expand...

way to be articulate.

Parker said:

No surprise coming from you. Always wanting to use force. I'd rather stay and put this country back onto the principles it was founded on.

Click to expand...

please show me where i said i wanted to use force.

i proposed you voluntarily relocate to some place without income taxes.

i am certain you will not find life to be as pleasant in those places.

UncleBuck said:

please show me where i said i wanted to use force.

Click to expand...

lol you already support force since you support the theft of peoples money by income tax. Don't pay income tax, it's taken and you may see jail time.

UncleBuck said:

i proposed you voluntarily relocate to some place without income taxes.
i am certain you will not find life to be as pleasant in those places.

Click to expand...

Why should I listen to you? You've been wrong about everything else.

hmmm.....

Parker said:

lol you already support force since you support the theft of peoples money by income tax. Don't pay income tax, it's taken and you may see jail time.

Click to expand...

i said i don't support removing you from the country by force. i fully admit to supporting the 16th amendment.

Parker said:

Why should I listen to you? You've been wrong about everything else.

Click to expand...

says the guy who asserted that we fought the revolution so we wouldn't have to pay taxes.
says the guy who thinks the estate tax is in effect.
says the guy who can't come up with a scrap of evidence to support his assertions about my views on ron paul.

UncleBuck said:

i said i don't support removing you from the country by force. i fully admit to supporting the 16th amendment.

says the guy who asserted that we fought the revolution so we wouldn't have to pay taxes.
says the guy who thinks the estate tax is in effect.
says the guy who can't come up with a scrap of evidence to support his assertions about my views on ron paul.

Click to expand...

You make things up about my views because yours are backed by weakness and failures. Is that the new tactic? To put words in my mouth like you make facts up in your head?
Why are you arguing when you don't even know what you are arguing about?

UncleBuck said:

not at all. the warlords may use force, here in america it is a consensual exchange. it is part of a silly little concept that us people who live in societies call 'the social pact' or something to that effect. in exchange for the benefits of society, you voluntarily give up certain things. and yes, it is voluntary, as you always have the option to abscond to the wilderness or somalia or join the amish and truly 'own yourself', whatever the fuck that means. all for the low, low price of leaving the society.



you always use that meaninglessly obtuse definition of 'owning yourself'. so your question is meaningless. perhaps if you used terminology that wasn't so obtuse, your question would have meaning and i would be able to answer it.



i bet you still cash the SS check when it gets there.

Click to expand...

I hope you answer my questions, I'll try to address yours.

You seem to think that in order for a person to be free from the use of force against them they should leave the country. Doesn't that
weaken your argument and strengthen mine? I AM a Voluntarist, you are not. You have tried to wordsmith "voluntary" into meaning
something it does not. If a private club had rules of membership your argument might make sense, but isn't the "land of the free" based on tolerance and the simple concept of live and let live? You seem to embrace a central authority even over people that simply want to be left alone, are willing to leave others alone and have no wish to participate in anothers plan for running somebody else's life.

You do believe in leaving others alone don't you?

Voluntary exchange is consensual isn't it ?

Concerning "owning yourself" and my question being obtuse. Okay, I'll try again. Just let me know if you agree with the following statements and we can at least understand the others basic philosophy. You do have an underpinning philosophy don't you?

I own myself and should not intitate aggression against another. You own yourself and should not initiate aggression against another.
Agree? Disagree?

Social security ? ...that's a bet you would lose.

Sanity may prevail after all.

http://www.reuters.com/article/idUSTRE69D5CO20101014

"U.S. states can proceed with their lawsuit seeking to overturn President Barack Obama's landmark healthcare reform law, a Florida judge ruled on Thursday.
U.S. District Judge Roger Vinson had already indicated at a hearing last month that he could not uphold parts of a motion by the Justice Department to dismiss the lawsuit, led by Florida and 19 other states.
"In this order, I have not attempted to determine whether the line between constitutional and extra-constitutional government has been crossed," Vinson, of the U.S. District Court for the Northern District of Florida, wrote in his ruling."

And the hits keep coming.

Dozens charged in largest Medicare scam ever

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/39657964/ns/us_news-crime_and_courts/?gt1=43001

In the New York portion of the case, more $100 million in fraudulent bills were submitted and Medicare paid out at least $35 million, sometimes by wiring it to the clinics' banks accounts, investigators said. (just in the New York portion mind you)

here's the best part:
Some of the phony paperwork was a giveaway: It showed eye doctors doing bladder tests; ear, nose and throat specialists performing pregnancy ultrasounds; obstetricians testing for skin allergies; and dermatologists billing for heart exams.

If this was a for profit organization do you think they would have tighter controls on fraud since it is THEIR money that is being stolen instead of mine?

And people want the Federal Government to be in charge??? WAKE UP!!!!!!!!