Some sort of stress?

Hi everyone,

I'm just over a month into my first grow. I have 2 plants, with one being 2 weeks older than the other.

Some specs...
->LIGHTS -- 65W CFL full spectrum, 42W CFL 2700K, 26W CFL full spectrum (all ~6-8 inches away)
-> CYCLE - 20/4
->TEMP -- Usually 75-80 (although when the house heater is running all night, it has gotten into the upper 80s a couple of times)
->pH -- Water and fert are pHed to 6.5. I can't measure the pH of the soil directly because the crappy Home Depot pH meter stinks. It says 7.0, but who knows.

This isn't my first post about my problems with this grow. I'm having a tough time reading my plants and making them happy.

The first plant hasn't shown any improvement for a while (pics in this post). Stunted growth at the top, with a ton of curling underneath. The leaves at the top almost all exhibit brown edges. Some leaves throughout the plant have big blotches of brown that seem to congregate around the center vein of the leaf. Older leaves, toward the bottom, are showing chlorosis. The stem is very twiggy and almost all brown (used to be green, then purple). The last time I posted, I was told that it was suffering from over-fert. Well, on last Wednesday (2/24), I flushed the plant with 6 liters of water pHed to 6.5. I should add that when I did this, the runoff initially smelled like sulfur or rotting eggs. I let it sit until this past Sunday (2/2 to really let the medium dry out (just MG Organic), then gave it a about 1/4 liter of water with 1/4 strength 24-8-16 fert (all pHed to 6.5). I also added a little bit of just water, but I made sure there was no runoff. The funny thing about this plant is that the leaves hidden closer to the main stem are green and look healthier than any of the older foliage extending out further. I really can't tell what's going on with this one.

The second plant is younger than the first, but was doing well until about 10 days ago (pics in next post). Since then, it stopped growing, so I transplanted it into a bigger pot about 3-4 days ago. Since then, the leaves have developed yellow and brown blotches. After the repot, I watered and added just a little bit of 1/4 strength fert solution. It hasn't bounced back since then. The condition is just slowly getting worse and worse.

I just can't understand or find resources for what is happening. PLEASE HELP! And for those who are going to immediately jump to overwatering or over-fertilization. Both of these plants have only received one 1/4 strength, 1/4 liter dosage of nutes in 6.5 water in the past 8 days. Both plants have only been watered twice within that same range of time.

Pic breakdown:
1st - the bigger plant today
2nd - the bigger plant on 2/20/10
3rd - closeup of an unhealthy leaf
4th - closeup of twiggy stem with greener foliage hidden underneath older leaves

1st Pic -- Smaller plant today
2nd Pic - Smaller plant on 2/20/10
3rd Pic - Close-up of leaf with blotchiness
4th Pic - Close-up yellowing lower leaf with brown blotch at center vein

well straight off the bat get those way closer then 6-8 inches away asap. cfl's are cool heat light bulbs you should be able to touch them without burning yourself. get them plants like 2 inches away and your putting fertilizer in that water too? there way to young to be giving them any nutes or ferts till later on in their lifes. ferts or nutes that early in their life will jus cause burning to happen or nute lock out which look like your problems to me anyways. the only other thing i can think of is if the pots you have them in are new or not. if they are used there could be something in the pot thats contamanating it or if u washed the pots and didnt rinse well enough. hope this helps Good luck!

s7even said:

well straight off the bat get those way closer then 6-8 inches away asap. cfl's are cool heat light bulbs you should be able to touch them without burning yourself. get them plants like 2 inches away and your putting fertilizer in that water too? there way to young to be giving them any nutes or ferts till later on in their lifes. ferts or nutes that early in their life will jus cause burning to happen or nute lock out which look like your problems to me anyways. the only other thing i can think of is if the pots you have them in are new or not. if they are used there could be something in the pot thats contamanating it or if u washed the pots and didnt rinse well enough. hope this helps Good luck!

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1 thing even if they weren't over fed your nitrogen is way too high for that young of plants
2nd. If you look at the bag of mg organics you'll see that it says it will feed for at least 2 mths therefore no nutes are nneeded. Let the soil dry some, flush them real good and then nothing but water. The leaves that are already damaged you won't see much of an improvement. Only that they won't die. Just watch the new growth for signs of you plants health

Watered to hell & back + not enough light.

i have been there & done that.

First, thanks for the quick replies! I really appreciate it!

There are a few things I wanted to ask about:

-I am worried that my medium (MG Organic) retains too much water. I didn't add any perlite (didn't really know what perlite was when I started), and the dirt seems to clump easily. When I flushed the plant then let it dry out for 4 days (the top soil was getting crusty), the soil about 2 inches deep was still damp. This makes it very difficult for me to gauge how thirsty the plant is. Should I change the medium? Does anyone have any suggestions on how much or how often to water?

-Is there any possibility this is a pH problem? As I said before, I can't get an accurate measurement of the soil pH, but everything going in is pHed to 6.5. Will watering with water pHed to 6.5 make the soil pH 6.5??

-What exactly are those brown blotches?

fendz457 said:

First, thanks for the quick replies! I really appreciate it!

There are a few things I wanted to ask about:

-I am worried that my medium (MG Organic) retains too much water. I didn't add any perlite (didn't really know what perlite was when I started), and the dirt seems to clump easily. When I flushed the plant then let it dry out for 4 days (the top soil was getting crusty), the soil about 2 inches deep was still damp. This makes it very difficult for me to gauge how thirsty the plant is. Should I change the medium? Does anyone have any suggestions on how much or how often to water?

-Is there any possibility this is a pH problem? As I said before, I can't get an accurate measurement of the soil pH, but everything going in is pHed to 6.5. Will watering with water pHed to 6.5 make the soil pH 6.5??

-What exactly are those brown blotches?

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you can get a moisture meter at walmart, lowes. Etc for bout 5 bucks.
I wouldn't want to put the plants thru the stress of another transplant until they're a lil healthier.

One more thought. For both of these plants, I fed them some light nutes after seeing the stem change from green to red/purple (happened at different times), because I learned that such a stem color indicated deficiency. In fact, that's what started the downhill for both of these plants --> my responding to the stem changing color and the growth slowing down. Because of the color change, I don't think the red/purple stem is genetic to either plant.

So, what should I do when the stem turns red/purple?

Thanks!

Morning bump.

Anyone have any input on what to do about a red/purple stem? Also, how much should I be watering these plants? Also, does using water pHed to 6.5 make the soil pH 6.5 over time?

Thanks!

Alot of time when the stem turns red/purple it is just the night temperature gets alittle low. I have never had an issue with i. Most of mine always have red in them.

i have small amounts of red/purple in my newer stems that pop out but later as the stems thicken it all goes green

Im pretty sure your plants are starving, they need nutrients. Stop flushing them. Repot with the soil mixed with perlite and 1tbs lime per gallon and stop worrying about PH. Start upping you nutrients.

Hey smppro, could you explain why you think they are starving and need more nutrients?

I ask because the soil retains a lot of water, so I think this may be a case of nutrient lock from drowning the roots, rather than lack of nutrients. I say this because adding nutrients has not yet ended with positive results. So, the plant could be "starving", but not because there are not enough nutrients in the soil. As you can see, it's a tough diagnosis to make because the cures are opposite of one another. On the one hand, I could add more nutrients, but if the problem was a constantly wet medium, then I would just compound the problem. On the other, I could not add more nutrients, and if the problem was nutrient starvation, well then that's wrong too.

As a first time grower, I can't tell exactly which problem it is. Any other thoughts on this?

Here are pics taken this morning. It's hard to see any improvement on "Mary", but the leaves on "Mary2" have straightened out.

Does anyone notice how the leaves are kinda folded or cupped on "Mary2"? I've read that this is a sign of thirst. It hasn't had any water since 2/28.

I don't think it's a good idea to repot either of these plants right now, especially the bigger of the two (due to stress).

Also, any thoughts on too much water/nutes vs. not enough nutes?

The pale means you need nitrogen, the brown spots mean you need phosphorus, the spots on the edges look like calcium def, atleast those are my guesses. I mean ive seen people start seedlings on 1/4 strength nutes, i think i would be at full strength if mine were that big. A lot of people like to blame PH but its rarely the problem. I use organic soil so it buffers the PH for me, its not something i check. Even in hydro i didnt mess with my ph that much, its the biggest scape goat for problems i think.

So, I figure that I'll continue posting pictures and updates using this thread for now. Both plants seem to be improving.

The first 2 pics are from the bigger plant "Mary". Outside still looks dismal, but there is an abundance of new healthy green growth starting at various nodes (mostly near the bottom for now). Is she starting over? Will she just grow right through the ugly dying leaves?

The next 2 pics are from "Mary2" (smaller). She is looking a little nutrient deficient. Can anyone comment on this? I'd really appreciate it.