Sr. Verde's: Concentrate Corner
- Thread starter Sr. Verde
- Start date
oakley1984
Well-Known Member
the place where i usually buy colibri is out, as soon as they have it in stock again im buying 12 cans hahaim still looking for vector
i picked up a sweet little vector pocket pipe lighter though
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
love both. cleans up pretty easy.
chiefpuffaloe
Active Member
i wonder what all your guys problems with ti degrading are? Every single piece of ti i have is still in the same condition i bought it in be it the cheap 20 dollar nails i bought of bm or my ti power. your titanium should never degrade. I have all the einstein nails and drop tops by ti power and all of them are still the same as the day i bought them. All this longevity talk has me wondering what you all are doing to your ti, no matter what brand thickness whatever the nail should be fine, i even use a propane torch for testing on one of mine and no degrading still....
Also in regards to the h.e. vs ti power thing
-Power ti is actually slightly higher quality titanium (slightly more pure) than h.e. by the numbers
-the drop top heads have more volume plus they have and even bigger upgradable head "full nelson" head which absolutely engulfs the capacity of the h.e. v3 one if you into gram plus dabs. So you got the two biggest heads on the market for the 18mm size and the biggest for the 14mm
-The center of gravity will never be off much like the v3 nail when fully extended because of its sleeved design 2 piece
-slightly cheaper
-life time guarantee on drop tops (for all you ti destroyers
)
- less drag = less reclaim on nail
- easier on dome parts as less heat base around joint area= less chance of broken joints or dome adapters
you should all know i do work closely with power ti so i am a little biased however these are all facts here so dont hate too hard for my "slight" marketing blast here
but i do think you all should be on the best ti out there made right in Colorado.
Sidenote i did finally try a v3 and they are a great product. I was pretty impressed by the machining. Overall I still think ti power is a better product. Also the v3 wasnt even the first adjustable nail i was dabbing. Ti power had one out over a year ago that was pretty sweet so a little of this hype is a little unfounded imo.
Also in regards to the h.e. vs ti power thing
-Power ti is actually slightly higher quality titanium (slightly more pure) than h.e. by the numbers
-the drop top heads have more volume plus they have and even bigger upgradable head "full nelson" head which absolutely engulfs the capacity of the h.e. v3 one if you into gram plus dabs. So you got the two biggest heads on the market for the 18mm size and the biggest for the 14mm
-The center of gravity will never be off much like the v3 nail when fully extended because of its sleeved design 2 piece
-slightly cheaper
-life time guarantee on drop tops (for all you ti destroyers
)- less drag = less reclaim on nail
- easier on dome parts as less heat base around joint area= less chance of broken joints or dome adapters
you should all know i do work closely with power ti so i am a little biased however these are all facts here so dont hate too hard for my "slight" marketing blast here
but i do think you all should be on the best ti out there made right in Colorado. Sidenote i did finally try a v3 and they are a great product. I was pretty impressed by the machining. Overall I still think ti power is a better product. Also the v3 wasnt even the first adjustable nail i was dabbing. Ti power had one out over a year ago that was pretty sweet so a little of this hype is a little unfounded imo.
ive read all 158 pages and made me want to join roll it up 
, thanks for answer kitty, i feel like only one person really touched on kitty question about messing with the filters has any1 else every got better yields with someting other then non bleached coffe filters, again thanks Peace.
, thanks for answer kitty, i feel like only one person really touched on kitty question about messing with the filters has any1 else every got better yields with someting other then non bleached coffe filters, again thanks Peace.I simply was talking about the oxidizing on our nails and right TI does not degrade. Simply It just a build up of oxide, which is a compound in which oxygen is bonded to one or more electropositive atoms. my question was simply cosmeticly based, my nail is as good as ever still.
researchkitty
Well-Known Member
Also in regards to the h.e. vs ti power thing
-Power ti is actually slightly higher quality titanium (slightly more pure) than h.e. by the numbers
-the drop top heads have more volume plus they have and even bigger upgradable head "full nelson" head which absolutely engulfs the capacity of the h.e. v3 one if you into gram plus dabs. So you got the two biggest heads on the market for the 18mm size and the biggest for the 14mm
-The center of gravity will never be off much like the v3 nail when fully extended because of its sleeved design 2 piece
-slightly cheaper
-life time guarantee on drop tops (for all you ti destroyers
- less drag = less reclaim on nail
- easier on dome parts as less heat base around joint area= less chance of broken joints or dome adapters
you should all know i do work closely with power ti so i am a little biased however these are all facts here so dont hate too hard for my "slight" marketing blast here
Sidenote i did finally try a v3 and they are a great product. I was pretty impressed by the machining. Overall I still think ti power is a better product. Also the v3 wasnt even the first adjustable nail i was dabbing. Ti power had one out over a year ago that was pretty sweet so a little of this hype is a little unfounded imo.
Power TI is NOT higher quality titanium, NOR slightly more "pure". Grade 2 Titanium is grade 2 titanium. They arent making it out of something else, nor anything special. ALL Titanium Nails are Grade 2 Titanium.
The center of gravity isnt off on HE products.
Dome parts shouldnt break because of heat, anyway. However, the thinner nails of Power TI, would allow heat to dissipate FURTHER into the ground joint, so if this stress could occur, it would be more dominant on the Power TI nails.
I'm biased too, I have my own lathe and hope to compete with BOTH of those companies. I just didnt see any of your important points as being even accurate man......
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
my canadian friends explained it to me. they said its not all dab Ti is grade 2 titanium. and that most of toronto uses swing pads because they cant get the good Titanium. im not sure how valid that is, but their Ti swing pad looked like it was going to crumble.
ChiefP: lets see some data on this Ti quality you speak of. You state it like its a fact so you must have the data somewhere.
As for the first adjustable nail, the V3 is the first I've seen, and for what I do, it is simply needed. Who cares if someone else made it first, I didn't know about it so it must not have had any real marketing or feedback. If my nail isn't right at the top of the dome, I'll miss when I shovel, and everyday I'm shoveling shoveling.
[video=youtube;BqOSIb08SwE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BqOSIb08SwE[/video]
chiefpuffaloe
Active Member
you should really check your numbers kitty not all grade 2 titanium is the same especially if your buying it to make nails and such. the better the supplier the better the ti, no doubt ill only be smoking on American certified grade 2 ti nonna that Chinese ti that has hit the market. There certification process is way wack on everything else (lots of blatant purity lies) and dont see this differing on ti.
i cant find the numbers task posted but power ti was higher so if you can find their numbers you'll have your answers but i think they pulled them or something because of this very reason. they were close though just more of the element ti in our product
the center of gravity is way off on the one i used when screwed all the way up. Sure when its not its fine but extend it to the limit and it pops outta the joint super easy and for a lot of people buying nails for there crazy high domes this will be a problem. Regardless you cant tell me the the center of gravity on the drop top is not better just look at the design physics wise and that being said why would you no want the nail that is the more stable of the two?
original adjustable ti. Much smaller adustablitiy was more for the addition of aftermarket heads and having a nail kit that fits all joints. Ill try to get some pictures up but task did come out and say he got the idea partial from out nail. They were more big around Colorado but kulture had em and i think bc in houston so they got around to a few areas of the country not thinking they were out in cali though.
You should check out our full nelson head matt if your so inclined, we were pouring dishes into it back to back to test the heat retention with some guys from the clinic. Its like dropping bombs into a ti swimming pool.
Also heat retention is the property of titanium that we look for not necessarily the transfer but both are important as titanium is rater efficient at both. So in fact yes the smaller joint rest will result in less broken joints when your doing back to back to back dabs. One that heat transfers into the large rest it holds the heat much longer than ti power fins resulting in more stress on joints. I Have seen no less than five broken joints from h.e products come though our store and none from ti power so based on that market research and the properties of grade 2 titanium yes it will result in less broken joints. Maybe there heating them wrong to break them but by design the ti power will hold much less heat around your joints resulting in less stress on your joints.
also good luck with your ti kitty looks like its gonna be fun but some hard work.
i cant find the numbers task posted but power ti was higher so if you can find their numbers you'll have your answers but i think they pulled them or something because of this very reason. they were close though just more of the element ti in our product
the center of gravity is way off on the one i used when screwed all the way up. Sure when its not its fine but extend it to the limit and it pops outta the joint super easy and for a lot of people buying nails for there crazy high domes this will be a problem. Regardless you cant tell me the the center of gravity on the drop top is not better just look at the design physics wise and that being said why would you no want the nail that is the more stable of the two?
original adjustable ti. Much smaller adustablitiy was more for the addition of aftermarket heads and having a nail kit that fits all joints. Ill try to get some pictures up but task did come out and say he got the idea partial from out nail. They were more big around Colorado but kulture had em and i think bc in houston so they got around to a few areas of the country not thinking they were out in cali though.
You should check out our full nelson head matt if your so inclined, we were pouring dishes into it back to back to test the heat retention with some guys from the clinic. Its like dropping bombs into a ti swimming pool.
Also heat retention is the property of titanium that we look for not necessarily the transfer but both are important as titanium is rater efficient at both. So in fact yes the smaller joint rest will result in less broken joints when your doing back to back to back dabs. One that heat transfers into the large rest it holds the heat much longer than ti power fins resulting in more stress on joints. I Have seen no less than five broken joints from h.e products come though our store and none from ti power so based on that market research and the properties of grade 2 titanium yes it will result in less broken joints. Maybe there heating them wrong to break them but by design the ti power will hold much less heat around your joints resulting in less stress on your joints.
also good luck with your ti kitty looks like its gonna be fun but some hard work.
researchkitty
Well-Known Member
Considering that the entire bottom of the HE nail is flat, and the Power one only has 3 nubs, I would think that the HE would be more "stable". However, I dont think that stability is really an issue, the only wobbly nails I've seen are glass or quartz ones......
Titanium is made to exact specifications. You showing that specification sheet is not a test. That is a cerfiticate which simply states that it meets the ASTM International Standards. All Grade 2 Titanium must test and be certified that way, otherwise it isnt Grade 2 Titanium.
China and American Titanium meet the same ASTM standards. The grade of Titanium (these being Grade 2) isnt used because its the purest. In fact, it is not. Its used because its the easiest to machine, and its a commercial grade Titanium.
Finally the forgotten part about the heat transfer in your rebuttal -- The same heat transferring to an entirely thin object makes the entire objects heat dissipate over a larger surface area. The thicker piece allows more heat to be held before it GETS hot to that part because its increased area is holding more heat away from the joint.
I do not doubt that the Power TI or whatever they are called are good nails -- but they are not "better" or using a "different purer titanium" of the Highly Educated, KO or any other titanium nail manufacturer.
Grade 2 Titanium is Grade 2 Titanium.
Titanium is made to exact specifications. You showing that specification sheet is not a test. That is a cerfiticate which simply states that it meets the ASTM International Standards. All Grade 2 Titanium must test and be certified that way, otherwise it isnt Grade 2 Titanium.
China and American Titanium meet the same ASTM standards. The grade of Titanium (these being Grade 2) isnt used because its the purest. In fact, it is not. Its used because its the easiest to machine, and its a commercial grade Titanium.
Finally the forgotten part about the heat transfer in your rebuttal -- The same heat transferring to an entirely thin object makes the entire objects heat dissipate over a larger surface area. The thicker piece allows more heat to be held before it GETS hot to that part because its increased area is holding more heat away from the joint.
I do not doubt that the Power TI or whatever they are called are good nails -- but they are not "better" or using a "different purer titanium" of the Highly Educated, KO or any other titanium nail manufacturer.
Grade 2 Titanium is Grade 2 Titanium.
researchkitty
Well-Known Member
So you bear the question and I have the burden to prove it? Thats not how it works. What evidence do you have that shows its inferior?
The standards institutes are around so that these problems *dont* exist. This isnt China glass vs Pyrex glass which is made to no specific standard.Its like saying that one ISO 9661 companies products are better than another ISO 9661's. Unless you have evidence to support that they are different, suggesting two identical standards ARE different is the unusual part.....
American Titanium just makes you fatter!
Matt Rize
Hashmaster
lol, evade and deflect. sall good. Ill keep telling folks what I believe because I have been presented with no facts. And I believe that chinese Ti is lower quality based on real life experience with it. If you think Chinese and US standards are the same I'll refer you to reality for a second.
<insert joke here>
<insert joke here>
ENDLSCYCLE
Well-Known Member
^^^ lol ^^^
researchkitty
Well-Known Member
I didnt evade anything. I replied that they both adhere to ASTM standards. And, by the way, your right. China and USA dont have the same standards. Thanks for the reality check. BUT -- What a surprise, none of that matters. ASTM is an International standard that all metal sellers and exporters and importers work by. If the metal isnt the standard, it isnt sold or imported.
Why do people think that China cant make the same metals as the USA? They make CDROMS in Taiwan, China, and America. They are all the same! (Why? ISO Standards!)
While I appreciate your properly rude toned reply (lol
), at what point did I evade anything? You cant propose something, tell me to prove it, then tell me I'm "evading and deflecting" when I did properly reply WHY they are the same. YOUR evasion is where you have failed at the most critical point:You have shown NO evidence of ANY fashion that "Chinese Grade 2 Titanium" is better or worse than "American Grade 2 Titanium". If there was evidence, there's something we can discuss. The REASON there is no evidence is that USA and China both participate in the ASTM International Standard for metal manufacturing.
Is this going to be like last time where you yelled at me and told me I was stupid for saying Butane was heavier than air, and then proved it with the correct weights and you mysteriously decided not to reply again? I'd gander not, however, I'd like to use that point to remind you that this isnt about me, or about you. Its about the facts. The facts here are that China G2Ti = USA G2Ti. Your opinion, based on no evidence other than limited real world experience, is nice, but its an opinion without any merit to it. Sorry man.
tehgenoc1de
Active Member
No difference if it's ASTM Grade 2 Ti, but you should buy American for sake of our manufacturing industry. Less work for Chinese machinists.
dankshizzle
Glassblowing Moderator
I got a friend making me some nails and dabber stands. I wonder what kind of titanium he's getting. He gets it through his shop. I just told him ti-2. I don't care they will be cheap as Hell and he is already a master lather. He's copying the v3 threaded with two heads for a 14 or 18 same with fins. He's not making them to start a business. Just hook up the friend group that is getting into errl like crazy. I made some tubes and pipes and BAM, all these caregivers are finally doing something I like with the trim. Never been a fan of eating it unless its tincture, so I'm happy as Hell...
Am I gonna be able to tell if its Chinese or usa?
Am I gonna be able to tell if its Chinese or usa?
chiefpuffaloe
Active Member
there is most definitely a difference in the grade 2 titanium quality even if its ast
Im not gonna argue something i already know the truth about ive seen the numbers. Ask task for his numbers if you wont believe me.
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTU020
Key Words: ASTM Grade 2; UNS R50400, CP titanium, C.P. titanium alloy
as you can see here the composition can vary even in astm grade 2 ti check the website i linked above if you think im making it up or whatever. But do a little adding and you can see power ti has really high quality grade 2 ti. Way above the min 99.2 percent ti.
also there is 4 nubs on the ti power not three and a longer part the dips into the joint providing even more stability.
These are the facts take or leave em just though you would all want to know what imo is the best and hear the facts i have to back it up. As it stands im the only one here thats tried both the he and the drop top.
Hands down the drop top is better in stability, ti quality, heat retention, volume and price enough said. you all can decide if that makes it a "better" nail but imo the answer is clear.
Im not gonna argue something i already know the truth about ive seen the numbers. Ask task for his numbers if you wont believe me.
http://asm.matweb.com/search/SpecificMaterial.asp?bassnum=MTU020
Key Words: ASTM Grade 2; UNS R50400, CP titanium, C.P. titanium alloy
| [SIZE=-1]Component[/SIZE] | [SIZE=-1] Wt. %[/SIZE] |
| |
| |||
| [SIZE=-1]C[/SIZE] | [SIZE=-1]Max 0.1[/SIZE] | ||
| [SIZE=-1]Fe[/SIZE] | [SIZE=-1]Max 0.3[/SIZE] | ||
| [SIZE=-1]H[/SIZE] | [SIZE=-1]Max 0.015[/SIZE] | ||
| [SIZE=-1]N [/SIZE] | [SIZE=-1]Max 0.03[/SIZE] | ||
| [SIZE=-1]O[/SIZE] | [SIZE=-1]Max 0.25[/SIZE] | ||
| [SIZE=-1]Ti[/SIZE] | [SIZE=-1]99.2[/SIZE] |
as you can see here the composition can vary even in astm grade 2 ti check the website i linked above if you think im making it up or whatever. But do a little adding and you can see power ti has really high quality grade 2 ti. Way above the min 99.2 percent ti.
also there is 4 nubs on the ti power not three and a longer part the dips into the joint providing even more stability.
These are the facts take or leave em just though you would all want to know what imo is the best and hear the facts i have to back it up. As it stands im the only one here thats tried both the he and the drop top.
Hands down the drop top is better in stability, ti quality, heat retention, volume and price enough said. you all can decide if that makes it a "better" nail but imo the answer is clear.
jdro
Well-Known Member
I can add nothing in the China vs US Ti, but last week we received 2 different nails from Power TI, The adjustable and the standard. Not sure of their actual names. Both received were 14mm. The adjustable head did not come off, it was stuck on the pole.. you can jack it all the way up but couldn't switch it out with a new one. The head was also WAY smaller than the v3 HE. I dont know how you are saying they are bigger? I will show you pics of the Power TI that they sent us versus the HE side by side. Its no comparison, I will be able to snap a pic 2mrw.