St. Agnes abandoned church Detroit.

So i went down to detroit today to shoot a music video at St. agnes church. got to check out a pretty interesting tile inlaid into the floor. i saw a pic of this and wanted to check it out myself (where in the floor was it, was it added later, was it possibly carved.) and i can tell you this.

1. It was definitely laid with the tile around it (not sure when that was) or the whole church went through a regrouting after it was put in which seems highly unlikely to me.

2. its the real deal about a quarter inch deep and definitely not carved there the sides on the inside of it are clean cut and uniform no tool marks

3. its in a pretty bizarre spot. from my best estimate its either under the first seat section from the center isle of the back pew. or just next to the pew? its in the back row right near the center isle kind of a weird spot to find it i thought.

the ole google box tells me there are all kinds of swastikas in american churches as they were used a lot in architecture and design before world war 2. this church was build in 1913 so plenty of time before some one shat all over the symbol.

Heres where i scratch my head. the ole google box returns picture after picture of big prominent DECORATIVE swastikas and ornate wall DECORATION with swastikas in it but nothing about little hidden swastikas in the floor tiles. I'm sure theres more info out there and I'm gonna keep digging and see what i can find I'm sure il update this thread later.

And I'm not posting this here because i have some affinity for the symbol because of a certain political organization or group. i have an affinity for this symbol for the same reason ole hitler did..... because its been used OVER AND OVER throughout history, and it always seems to pop up in unique spots. hitler saw this and so have countless others. maybe its just a cool design that people like. maybe its a secret marking for the elite to recognize. maybe it just means luck(which is a meaning it held for quite some time) but either way this tile was in a weird ass spot.



without further adieu



i went out to the web and snagged a pic of the surroundings so u guys can get an idea of the gothicness of it all



The bottom of this photo you see the isle terminate at the edge. right about there is where the swastika is. this photo really old and the place is in so much worse shape now. there is NOOO veneer on anything any more all exposed structural masonry. the ground is piled up and all uneven as the ceiling has mostly caved in by the pillars. its a mess nowadays.

Wudya guys thinks? pretty nifty huh all kinds of cool things right in our own backyards.


*edit* the church was built in 1913 totally thought i had that in there >.<

*re edit* I did say it was built in 1913 >.<

What did that symbol mean before hitler? Assuming that church was built in mid-late 1800s.

it used to mean all kinds of things. the Buddhists used it as a symbol of peace. it was used a lot in architecture and decoration as a symbol for luck. there are a lot of occult references to it as well in magic and sacred geometry. i haven't really looked into the occult side of it a whole lot but i know when i look at it i see something with it. it does something to your mind kinda centralizes your vision like a spiral does but in a different way its bizarre.

It is an ancient Symbol of peace. Free masons used to use it before hitler.... Old church in Detroit is a mason spot for sure...

the masons(brick layers and secret society types) are very active in detroit. i personally used to be a mason (the trowel bearing kind not the secret society) and i can tell ya one thing. old masons(actual hard working brick layers) have all kinds of weird superstitions and ceremonies for buildings they work on. its not uncommon if you tear out the address block on the front of houses to find a quarter from the year the masonry was done laid in the mortar underneath . so i guess it wouldn't surprise me if this is a symbol of luck that some mason stuck in some inconspicuous spot to try to bless the building. but at the same time the that nagging feeling is always there that it could be more....

well Hitler fucked that up just like the ubiquitous rainbow icon's meaning was stolen.

thats why you don't see too many swastikas out openly on buildings built post WW2.

what meaning did the rainbow have before the gay community adopted it? as far as i can tell the ole rainbow always just meant happy and gay means happy sooo idk whatever let em be gay and use whatever symbol they want.

Im sure there are a lot of gay members of this board(out or not) and i don't think they would appreciate you saying that gays fuck up the rainbow like hitler fucked up the swastika. intact I'm far from gay and i was even a lil taken aback by it. not cool

not kool yes, that may be a bad example if you take each word or phrase, such as, "just like", literally. just wanted to illustrate how the meaning of how symbols change (and don't mind being deliberately provocative occasionally). guess it's not (ever?) pc to express the loss of the rainbow icon, since it's served to unify a community that has been discriminated against. now you've got me thinking about the difference between right and wrong. I am humbled.

its probably just the smoke your burning, sativa dominant and Who lost the rainbow symbol? the sherbert vendors of the world? and how did the gays lose it or take it or whatever. gay people only offend you if you let them. they are not doing anything wrong. gay people being gay doesn't hurt anyone but gay people. so thats not that big of a deal to me.

the day giant gay dudes are running all over the place trying to forcefully GAYIFY the world and killing you cause your not gay then ya GJ gay people YOU FUCKED IT UP, but last i checked that hasn't happened yet (Richard simmons gave it hell)

so cool GAYS LIKE RAINBOWS!!

back to the topic at hand

This was all taken from ttp://brokensecrets.com/2010/10/18/the-swastika-was-once-a-symbol-of-good-luck/

but il copy and paste it into here to save you guys load times

"By Chad Upton | Editor
Today, the swastika is frequently associated with one of the most horrible and unfortunate times in human history &#8212; it was the symbol of Nazi Germany (1933-1945).
Because its recent history is awful, the swastika is nearly taboo in many cultures. But, the symbol has been around for thousands of years, most of those years as a very peaceful symbol.



The name &#8220;swastika&#8221; comes from the Sanskrit word svastika, meaning &#8220;lucky&#8221; or &#8220;well being.&#8221; It is generally used on people and things to denote good luck or wish well being. It goes by many names in many different places: hook cross, crooked cross, angled cross, sun cross, sun wheel, hakenkreuz (German), among others.
The swastika can be traced back about 11,500 years, to the Neolithic period. It&#8217;s past and present are deeply rooted primarily in Eastern religions although there are many examples of it in other religions. Long before it had any negative connotation, it was popular in religions and cultures including: Christianity, Buddhism, Hinduism, Chinese and Japanese art and many others.
Many people are unfamiliar with the swastika&#8217;s relationship to Christianity. They used it to symbolize Christ&#8217;s victory over death. Some cathedrals built during the Romanesque and Gothic eras are decorated with swastikas, including the tile floor of this Roman Catholic Church in France (Amiens Cathedral).



Matilde Moisant, the second woman to get her pilot&#8217;s license, wore a swastika pendant on her 1912 uniform for good luck. This was a common practice among early aviators and test pilots.
Although the swastika is generally associated with an awful time, its original meaning is still an important symbol in many cultures, so it&#8217;s important to understand that it was a positive symbol for most of its life."

*END SOURCE QUOTE*

Seems some one wanted some luck? but my question is why just the one tile in the random spot? it wasn't centered it wasn't on a corner it wasn't symmetrical with anything?

kinda weird......

Mos def saliva Dom. / peace to all.

tbh- I get really uncomfortable seeing that swastika. part Jew here.

hitler definitely makes a lot of bad images come to mind when you see it. my question is...... why didn't anyone see it on the blueprint of this building built for the navy in the 60's?



*Start source quote*

Google Earth is about to cost the U.S. Navy $600,000. Some intrepid Googlers discovered recently that a Navy base in southern California bears a striking resemblance to a swastika from the air. Apparently, no one noticed that the four-building complex, built in the late 1960s, looks like the offensive symbol from above until early last year. Local residents have lobbied the Navy for action ever since, and therefore the Navy has decided to drop $600K on landscaping and architectural alterations in order to camouflage the shape. At which point, it will look like ... a swastika covered in expensive shrubbery.

*end source quote* source http://blog.foreignpolicy.com/posts/2007/09/26/us_navy_building_looks_like_a_swastika

there are bunch of airports that rock it out too..... now ya gotta ask yourself, dumb ass architects? sneaky evil elite architects? or just trying to build a building thats extremely efficient to move around? (the excuse for why so many airports are in the swastika pattern)

my family is seventh generation sherbet vendors and No We Don't Raise Unicorns, wtf, but our company logo happens to be a huggy bear and rainbow. best business decision ever made.

guess this thread is about swastikas, so I'll likely stay on topic now that I know.

Did you break that tile w a hammer? If not, I will. hate to rock the boat.

some one broke the church with a hammer first. you couldn't do any more damage then was already done without jeopardizing your own life! besides i left my cadi parked out front for about an hour and thats all the hairs on the back of my neck would allow. the front windows were riddled with bullet holes! so maybe it proved to ultimately be a sign of bad luck much like it did for ole adolph.

did some more googleboxing and found this from some aryanalien blog dude. don't even wanna know about the name(council of light or racism related lol) but it looks like he went out and did the ole copy paste from somewhere else soooo idk but this is his sight

*source http://aryannordicalpinealiens.blogspot.com/2008/10/swastika.html*

The swastika is an equilateral cross with arms bent at right angles, all in the same rotary direction, usually clockwise. The swastika as an ancient symbol of prosperity and good fortune, and it was widely distributed throughout the ancient and modern world. The word for this symbol is derived from the Sanskrit svastika, which means "conducive to wellbeing." The swastika was a favorite symbol on ancient Mesopotamian coinage. In Scandinavia, the lefthand swastika was the sign for the god Thor's hammer. The swastika also appeared in early Christian and Byzantine art and was known as the gammadion cross, or crux gammata, because it could be constructed from four Greek gammas attached to a common base. The symbol can also be found in South and Central America, among the Maya, and in North America, principally among the Navajo (Encyclopedia Britannica Online).The swastika has had a religious connotation for centuries and continues to be seen in this light in some places. The swastika continues to be seen in India as the most widely used auspicious symbol of Hindus, Jainas, and Buddhists. Among the Jainas, the swastika is the emblem of their seventh Tirthankara (saint), and its four arms are also said to remind the worshiper of the four possible places of rebirthin the animal or plant world, in hell, on Earth, or in the spirit world. The Hindus (and also Jainas) use the swastika to mark the opening pages of their account book
. . .
that has garnered a good deal of support. The deity with the greatest power in the ancient world was the sun, or associated with the sun, and this is true even in areas such as Egypt where the swastika did not appear. The sun was considered to be the great force of good because it was what provided light and warmth and so supported life. All religions had a number of symbols and myths which expressed veneration for the sun, and many of the heroes of the Greek myths were only fanciful allegories of the journey of the sun across the heavens, where dangers were overcome for the good of all mankind. Greek love stories were also based on the symbolism of the sun, among them the myth of Apollo and Daphne and that of Orpheus and Eurydice, and both myths "express the sad but inevitable death of the dawn at the gradual approach of the sun" (Whittick 271). Other symbols that gained wide use in the ancient world include the disk and the equilateral cross, and the two are often represented with the swastika: "The general likeness of the disk to the sun is beyond doubt, and its association with the gammadion implies a similar meaning in the two symbols. Often, as on some Cretan coins, the sun is shown in the center of the swastika.

*end source*



some cool stuff. seems it all goes back to the sun like most things in religion. that good ole sun out there growing crops! gotta love it!

heres another awesome article apparently some ole buddhist found a meteor and carved it into a statue with a swastika on it.

*source http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2012/09/120927-nazi-buddhist-meteorite-science-iron-man-meteoritics-statue/*



Update, October 25: A new paper&#8212;citing features inconsitent with Buddha statues, circa A.D. 1000&#8212;suggests the statue in question was created in the 20th century. The report does, however, agree that the figure was carved from a meteorite.

Call it a blast from the past. Uncovered by Nazis in Tibet, an ancient Buddhist sculpture turns out to have been carved from a meteorite.

Known as the "Iron Man," the 22-pound (10-kilogram) figure is likely a Buddhist god. Seated, he wears a large swastika on his midsection&#8212;a good-luck symbol in Buddhism.

In 1938 a team of Nazis traveling in Tibet came across the statue and&#8212;possibly intrigued by the familiar bent-armed cross&#8212;brought it back to Germany. There, the "Iron Man" remained in a private collection in Munich until 2007, when the statue became available for study.
Since then, Elmar Buchner of the Planetology Institute at Stuttgart University has been analyzing the Buddhist statue, which is thought to hail from 11th-century Tibet. Buchner says the statue was carved from a meteorite that landed somewhere between Mongolia and Siberia roughly 15,000 years ago.
Among the clues is the sculpture's telltale mineral content and structure, which give it away as a kind of meteorite called an ataxite. "It is rich in nickel, it is rich in cobalt. Less than 0.1 percent of all meteorites and less than 1 percent of iron meteorites are ataxites ... It is the rarest type of meteorite you can find," Buchner told the BBC.
No doubt the figure was dear to the artist who sculpted it, but what is it worth today? Its status as the only known human figure carved from a meteorite may give it a value of $20,000, according to Buchner. But, he said in a statement, "if our estimation of its age is correct and [the sculpting] is nearly a thousand years old, it could be invaluable."

*end source*

damn gotta wonder how tough that woulda been to carve so long ago. how did they find it? did they see it fall and go look for it? so many new things for the googlebox!

Well I lay ceramic, etc. for a living and I can tell you that tile could have been installed after the floor had been down for some time.
After a few swabbing's of the deck with bleach and other chemicals the new 'grout', (probably the mortar used to set tile), would not be distinct at all.
If the 'grout' was colored - then matching can be tough - if not impossible in some instances.

But to me that does not look like an inconspicuous spot to set the tile - to me it appears to be part of the original plan.
I guess my first question is: are there other tiles with symbols, etc. on them in the rest of the tile floor?
Did you look into Pewabic Tile as a source for the original stock?
They did many structures around Detroit such as Kahn designed buildings, etc.

Also - if you want to recover that tile from the church - try pounding the tiles adjacent to the desired one with a maul.
First use a handheld carbide cutter to score the 'grout' around the desired tile.
Next start at the further edges of the surrounding tiles and beat them to a pulp.
After clearing a bit of area around the tile start smacking the substrate.
It should pop loose in one piece - especially if it is original installation.

HGK420 said:

damn gotta wonder how tough that woulda been to carve so long ago. how did they find it? did they see it fall and go look for it? so many new things for the googlebox!

Click to expand...

Fell to earth 15,000 years ago, carved 1,000 years ago...don't think they saw it fall... Reading comprehension is very important.

wasn't the symbol also a native american symbol for health or mark of a medicine man as well? cool read. cool pic.

I believe most, from ancient Greeks to Aztecs used the Thule as a basis for their "swastika" symbolism.

I might have to dust off the ole kneepads myself here soon..not an expert but I did apprentice for one for a few years on and off.

I saw a few carved into bells and on temple walls in Nepal, they made me do a few double takes.

Going down the stairs into the basement at the Free Library in Philly they have a huge one carved
in cobblestone. I am surprised it's still there.

All this time I thought charles manson was a psycho, I feel bad now knowing he is just a
very misunderstood Buddhist.

I can be such a judgemental prick sometimes....