Super soil is good. But is it really the best?

Ccoastal said:

lol well if you amend soil and dont cook it, your failing as an organic grower as amendments take time to activate, bone meal for example takes 1-2 months, where alfalfa meal takes up to 6 months before the N is available.

with a little planning, you should have no problems with SS, but if your a lazy grower chem nutes are probably for you

Ccoastal

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really? alfalfa meal takes up to 6 months before the N is available? That's why they topdress corn with it, in organic farming, right? because by the time the corn is done and they are planting something else, THEN the corn can feed on the alfalfa meal? You're ridiculous.

chem ferts with lots of fungi and micro organisms is like saying you wipe your ass without toilet paper.

Chemical nutes KILL microbes.

Sticky Lungs said:

chem ferts with lots of fungi and micro organisms is like saying you wipe your ass without toilet paper.

Chemical nutes KILL microbes.

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LOL. Ok.

keep reading noob

Chem nutes aren't natural, and so the microbes, if present, will be doing who-knows-what. Normally there is a plant / microbe relationship. The plant helps the microbes and the microbes help the plant. If you interrupt that relationship, the microbes may just die off, go dormant, or try to fulfill some other role.

This grow style is unique to stoners. That should tell us something.

Some of the best smoke I've ever grown that yielded the best and everyone loved was grown using Maxibloom only with a tea fed every 3rd feeding. The tea was Alaskan Humus, Floralicious and Molasses.

To each his own. We can only appreciate this healing plant that has us so motivated to find the perfect way to grow. But yes I have read in more than one place about microbial life in the soil food web and how they are irritated/killed by chemical fertilizers.

Sticky is correct. Chems do kill bennies. You are just wasting money by mixing chems and organics. Your harvest may have been great. But there definitely was no microbial anything going on. Most chem nutes have edta in them which is an acetate that bonds metal ions and at the same time acts as a chelating agent. Which is very bad. Can easily burn the shit out of your plants. Will definitely kill off any beneficial bacteria.

P.s. Tga has a pre mix for super soil called green avengers soil.


There was a huge thread about chems and organics a year or 2 ago.


Also alfalfa takes about 4-6 weeks to break down.

Interesting anecdote, maybe. Mycorrhizal Fungi will go dormant if there's a lot of P hanging around. P transport was its little job, and if not needed, it goes away like frosty the snowman. That's a bit of a generalization / consolidation. I suspect it's the fact that plant isn't feeding / baiting the fungi, since it's being literally flooded with P (again, assuming the soil is high P).

There may be some of this happening with the other microbes as well. Speculation on my part.

You are both right here, really.

Throughout the grow the microbial life in the soil changes as the plant does above. In this symbiotic relationship, each partner aids one another by consistently adapting to the changes of life.

My two cents at the very least.

-Snafu

I'm sorry if this has already been mentioned, I admit - I did not read all seven pages of this post. But I have two comments to what you have said. First, subcool has never said to use a crappy, nutrient void, soil for the top - he adds this when re-potting for the exact reason you mentioned. Young, vegging plants tend to want way less nutes than older ones. This method does not give the plants those highly concentrated nutes until they are much older.

Second, if you listen to what Sub says, he admits that many strains do NOT like Super soil. His strains do because during breeding, he uses this method of growing. Sub created Super Soil not because it was the best/only way to grow, but because it is easy for a patient. It creates an environment where they don't have to own a pH meter or measure out chemical nutrients. They can practically just water the plant and watch it grow. To each their own.

To each their own, indeed. People need to be aware of alternatives and choose. What saddens me is the waste of soil in this process. Single mix and toss soil. If ya gotta, you gotta, but consider re-using the soil. Here's a recipe based on this:

Base Soil

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat or Alaska Peat
1/3 Aeration material (pumice)
1/3 EWC

Per Cubic Foot of the Base Soil:

3 cup Charcoal (activated)
4 cups Rock Powders (4X Glacial, 1X Bentonite, 1X Oyster Shell, 1X Basalt)

½ Cup Neem Meal (2 g / L)
1 Cup Crab Shell Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal
2 Cups Fish Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1 Cup Sul-Po-Mag
½ Cup Alfalfa

1.5 Cups Montmorillonite clay
1.5 Cups Pyrophyllite Clay

1/2 cup this 3 part lime mix

1 part powdered dolomite lime
1 part agricultural gypsum
2 parts powdered oyster shell

1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons.

Moisten with Fresh Aloe (2 Tbs Juice with 1 gallon water) and Accelerant Tea (Comfrey, Yarrow, Horsetail or Nettle)

I pre-inoculate with BTI and Nematodes.

Let this rest for 4 weeks.

Rrog said:

To each their own, indeed. People need to be aware of alternatives and choose. What saddens me is the waste of soil in this process. Single mix and toss soil. If ya gotta, you gotta, but consider re-using the soil. Here's a recipe based on this:

Base Soil

1/3 Sphagnum Peat from Premier Peat or Alaska Peat
1/3 Aeration material (pumice)
1/3 EWC

Per Cubic Foot of the Base Soil:

3 cup Charcoal (activated)
4 cups Rock Powders (4X Glacial, 1X Bentonite, 1X Oyster Shell, 1X Basalt)

½ Cup Neem Meal (2 g / L)
1 Cup Crab Shell Meal
2 Cups Kelp Meal
2 Cups Fish Meal
2 Cups Fish Bone Meal
1 Cup Sul-Po-Mag
½ Cup Alfalfa

1.5 Cups Montmorillonite clay
1.5 Cups Pyrophyllite Clay

1/2 cup this 3 part lime mix

1 part powdered dolomite lime
1 part agricultural gypsum
2 parts powdered oyster shell

1 cubic foot = 7.5 gallons.

Moisten with Fresh Aloe (2 Tbs Juice with 1 gallon water) and Accelerant Tea (Comfrey, Yarrow, Horsetail or Nettle)

I pre-inoculate with BTI and Nematodes.

Let this rest for 4 weeks.

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Rrog, i apreciate your ongoing input to soil discussions and have been reading your microrganizm references, but a little confused. where does the recycled soil enter this list of ingredients? This looks like a new mix. Thanks

EWC = Earthworm Castings = Worm compost = VermiCompost... All the same thing.

This is a new soil mix, as you say. It is set up to be recycled. Just plop a plant in the same container and keep going. No dumping and re-mixing.

Thanks, so do you think the microorganizmz regenerate the nutrient level indefinitely with this, or is there a point of diminishing returns?

The microbes will keep breeding and working as long as there's a plant to tend to AND you re-supply the used nutrients with simple top dressings, including EWC.

Thanks again, I went back and re-read all of this thread. Starting to seep into my turnip brain. My own problem is not enough time to do everything. My personal time management is conducive to so some prep work up front then not having much to do during the grow other than bondage, light adjustment and watering. I really like the simplicity of the supersoil/just add water method, but I sure don't like the cost. I agree completely that it sucks to just toss the soil after a single grow. Guys talk about selling off their bud and not to be cheap blah blah blah, but I am not growing to sell, so won't recoup any of the cost of spend discarded materials.

I did just invest in a supersoil mix for my first few grows, started mixing it up yesterday, but have to wait for several ingredients to complete. The startup is a bitch, just due to the desire to get it going now. Seeds cleared customs and should be here in a day or two. But once I get rolling I plan to have an ongoing supply of composted soil.

With the goal to fertilize supersoil style from the bottom up, what possible benefits/drawbacks do you see to taking that undisturbed pot, using some of the used as base mix, plus remixing some and blending it into another more supercharged base supersoil style to avoid ongoing top dressing nute maintenance?

Seems like a good system for me would be a composting bin of base soil, a second of supersoilish mix and possibly even getting going on a worm bin and starting to breed some local critters Korean style.

Hey, also Rrog, do you use any Lactobacillus in any of this?

Turnip- I get a new soil going with a Lacto-b serum. Standard milk deal. It's a great initial digester to get things rocking. After the soil is up and running I don't add microbes as a plan. No more Lacto-b and no ACT. Just stndard amendments like EWC and simple botanical teas.

Great info Rrog. +rep

Rrog is absolutely right. Though SS is definitely a nice method, I cannot stand the direction to toss out the soil.

Its all about composting. Recycling soil is easy when you compost correctly. Amend your worm food a little bit and you're all set, never buy anymore nutrients again.

-Snafu

Turnip, I just made my first batch of super soil as well. I am NOT willing to toss after each use either, and after getting fungus gnats from a $20 bag of FFOF I refuse to buy bagged soil aimed at the cannabis market.

What I do is buy soil from a local dirt company. It contains organic compost, lava sand, Texas greensand, and a loam/sand mixture. Nice basic soil for about $3 a bag, but very heavy. To that, I add coco coir (some new, some that has been used in my friend's oyster mushroom beds), perlite and/or expanded shale, and earthworm compost (if my little guys have any extra for me - if not I add cotton burr compost). If I think it needs more sand or minerals, I usually add extra greensand and/or azomite. Oh, I also add granulated molasses (to feed colonies), BTi, and micro-fungi, etc.

Many people will swear by their specific mix, but as long as you have at least two different sources of compost, something like peat or coco to retain water, a mineralized sand/rock powder, and a product to lighten it up - you will probably do well. If you replace exotic ingredients with ones that are local to you then you will get more value for your dollar and your mix will be more eco-friendly as well. Create micro colonies and feed em, or your soil will be almost useless to the plant - no matter how well you balance the mix.

The longer you make your own soil, the more comfortable you will get with the process. Ask people why they use certain products in their mixes....if they can't explain the choice of that particular ingredient when asked, I wouldn't trust their advice.

Speaking of which, Rrog, why do you add Aloe to your soil/water? Your post sounds like you are using it as a wetting agent....does it increase time between each watering or does it have another purpose? I have a large aloe plant, but I have never thought to add its juice to my soil. I do feed the leaves to my earthworms when I juice it for other purposes, though.