Thanks Obama, seriously.

Harrekin said:

You have a "Science" degree in which you studied physics AND chemistry together?

Bullshit, and you know it.

Click to expand...

LOL! You can't truly understand chemistry without physics.

MidwesternGro said:

Gee whillickers BnB, you sure do have a problem with people earning a living wage for their labor. Do your parents own some type of business that relies on cheap exploited labor?

Are you in some big cock-a-roach family that feeds on the labor of the poor and relies on our taxes to subsidize the bare necessities for the employees? Are you an economic vampire, sucking the life blood of people who work so that you can subsidize your lifestyle?

I can just see it now, one big roach family sucking up opiates and relying on US, the TAX PAYERS, to subsidize their cockroach business model. Do you fear the light? Do you and your parents scurry under tables when people flash a light on your business model?

You are so roach-like that you support liberal artists sucking up student loan money and getting special repayment plans instead of working and earning a living wage.

Click to expand...

The concept of a living wage is offensive to me.

It implies that it is the responsibility of your employer to ensure your financial well being. It isn't, your financial well being is your own responsibility.

Let us examine the habits of the so called working poor...

What socioeconomic group is most likely to; smoke, play the lottery, have a dvd/blue ray collection, and has most of the children? That's right, the working poor.

Smoking is an expensive habit at five dollars a day.

Every time I see someone buying lottery tickets, they leave the store and get into a piece of shit car.

Every time I see someone buy a movie at the store, they have to pay for them separately since the EBT card does not cover it.

Lower socioeconomic people are having much more children, and children are expensive, and limit your ability to work.

I can't help but feel these people make most of the problems they face in their lives.

The quality of life of the person making fries and cleaning toilets is not my concern. I am my concern. They are their concern. I have done a better job addressing my concerns then they have of theirs. Heroin addiction not withstanding. It set me back a few years, but I think I'll be alright.

I have several people I call employees, I'm a non managing junior partner in a business. Which means I take home a share of the profits, above my salary and fees.

We don't have any minimum wage employees. We have a girl who answers phones, schedules stuff, office manager is what we call her. She makes $14/hr and is worth every penny.

If minimum wage were increased we couldn't necessarily give her a huge raise. So instead of almost doubling the minimum wage, she would only be 40 percent over. It would suck for her.

Shit, it would suck for me.

The person who decides what the fry cook and janitor should make are themselves and their employer. It's nobody else's business.

The employer decides what a position should be compensated. The employee then decides that either is or isn't enough. If it isn't, they find a skill that is more valuable to their employer or someone else.

Very few of these minimum wage types work more than 40 hours a week, and most not that much so their employers can keep them at part time classification.

You know what I would do there?

I look up a plumber, call him and ask if he needs part time help. If he says no, I tell him I'll work for free. Even then he will probably throw you a few dollars just because most people are decent enough to do that.

I would work for free, or very little with that plumber. After a few months, after you've learned some things and can be of help, ask him for a job, or a reference.

Boom, you just got a $10/hr job as a plumber helper.

You work there for a year or two, growing your skills and knowledge as his helper, and you've probably gotten a raise by then to 12 or better. Gain his trust by coming to work on time, staying sober, not stealing from him or the customers, and not being a dick head.

Then you get your plumbers license. In this time you could have easily accumulated a bunch of tools, and saved enough money for a van or truck. Depending on circumstances, he can expand his business through your license, your truck, and you make even more money.

After a few years of this, guess what, it's time for your plumbing company.

But most of those McDonald's fry cooks wouldn't ever dream of that.

londonfog said:

starting with NAFTA was the losing of American jobs

Click to expand...

Ding ding ding....

NAFTA was absurd. We should have free trade with Canada.

Having free trade with Mexico is like a bad dream.

A lot of people blame "big evil corporations" for outsourcing.

I think they are about one entity that is void of culpability.

Unions; strong arm corporations into over valued compensation. The wages and benefits they negotiated, by threat of strike, sabotage, and picket lines were too far above fair market value for the job being done.

Government; sets America corporate tax levels at the highest, or second highest in the world (I know there are plenty of loopholes). But then opens the door by saying that we trade free with Mexico, China and Indonesia. There are no unions there, hardly any labor laws. It's cheaper than slavery, because you don't have to buy slaves. They have peasants.

So, corporation a and corporation b both make widgets. Each one is fighting for the biggest share of the market. They do the honorable thing and say, let's not move to the foreign third world country where we can exploit the peasant work force. We'll stay here, keep Americans working.

Corporation c, who makes gadgets has long wanted to get into the widget business.

They go to Mexico, set up a factory to make widgets, their labor costs are nothing. And now there is no trade restrictions.

Corporation a and b either move to Mexico, or they go out of business.

TPP is NAFTA on steroids and bath salts.

BigNBushy said:

The concept of a living wage is offensive to me.

It implies that it is the responsibility of your employer to ensure your financial well being. It isn't, your financial well being is your own responsibility.

Let us examine the habits of the so called working poor...

What socioeconomic group is most likely to; smoke, play the lottery, have a dvd/blue ray collection, and has most of the children? That's right, the working poor.

Smoking is an expensive habit at five dollars a day.

Every time I see someone buying lottery tickets, they leave the store and get into a piece of shit car.

Every time I see someone buy a movie at the store, they have to pay for them separately since the EBT card does not cover it.

Lower socioeconomic people are having much more children, and children are expensive, and limit your ability to work.

I can't help but feel these people make most of the problems they face in their lives.

The quality of life of the person making fries and cleaning toilets is not my concern. I am my concern. They are their concern. I have done a better job addressing my concerns then they have of theirs. Heroin addiction not withstanding. It set me back a few years, but I think I'll be alright.

I have several people I call employees, I'm a non managing junior partner in a business. Which means I take home a share of the profits, above my salary and fees.

We don't have any minimum wage employees. We have a girl who answers phones, schedules stuff, office manager is what we call her. She makes $14/hr and is worth every penny.

If minimum wage were increased we couldn't necessarily give her a huge raise. So instead of almost doubling the minimum wage, she would only be 40 percent over. It would suck for her.

Shit, it would suck for me.

The person who decides what the fry cook and janitor should make are themselves and their employer. It's nobody else's business.

The employer decides what a position should be compensated. The employee then decides that either is or isn't enough. If it isn't, they find a skill that is more valuable to their employer or someone else.

Very few of these minimum wage types work more than 40 hours a week, and most not that much so their employers can keep them at part time classification.

You know what I would do there?

I look up a plumber, call him and ask if he needs part time help. If he says no, I tell him I'll work for free. Even then he will probably throw you a few dollars just because most people are decent enough to do that.

I would work for free, or very little with that plumber. After a few months, after you've learned some things and can be of help, ask him for a job, or a reference.

Boom, you just got a $10/hr job as a plumber helper.

You work there for a year or two, growing your skills and knowledge as his helper, and you've probably gotten a raise by then to 12 or better. Gain his trust by coming to work on time, staying sober, not stealing from him or the customers, and not being a dick head.

Then you get your plumbers license. In this time you could have easily accumulated a bunch of tools, and saved enough money for a van or truck. Depending on circumstances, he can expand his business through your license, your truck, and you make even more money.

After a few years of this, guess what, it's time for your plumbing company.

But most of those McDonald's fry cooks wouldn't ever dream of that.

Click to expand...

The only reason you aren't poor after your Super Heroin Junky Adventure (TM) is because your parents had means. Hell, they probably helped pay for your education. Who the Hell buys Blu-rays or DVDs anymore? Everybody, including the poor, streams shit now. As for the lottery that is just another scam designed to prey on the poor and ignorant, just like a casino.

Why should I subsidize the cheap labor of some cock-a-roach business owner? If they cannot pay a living wage, then they should change their business plan or go out of business. Quite frankly we should make it easier to unionize so that the workers have somebody to lobby for them and restrict trade with countries that have poor working conditions, but..... free markets and some other bullshit conservatives spew.

As for working for a plumber for free? LOL!!! Which person who has a family will work for a plumber for free? And why would that plumber train some stranger to impinge upon his work in his territory? You have a LOT to learn about the world. Every time I have hired a plumber, they did not have a trainee.

America: Where people think you should have to work for free to get somewhere because of free markets!

Thank God* the teabaggers are old and will be dying off soon.

*Does not exist.

BigNBushy said:

We don't have any minimum wage employees. We have a girl who answers phones, schedules stuff, office manager is what we call her. She makes $14/hr and is worth every penny.

If minimum wage were increased we couldn't necessarily give her a huge raise. So instead of almost doubling the minimum wage, she would only be 40 percent over. It would suck for her.

Click to expand...

Why would it suck for her? She would be entirely unaffected by it.

BigNBushy said:

The concept of a living wage is offensive to me.
. . .
It implies that it is the responsibility of your employer to ensure your financial well being. It isn't, your financial well being is your own responsibility.
. . .
The employer decides what a position should be compensated. The employee then decides that either is or isn't enough. If it isn't, they find a skill that is more valuable to their employer or someone else.
. . .
Very few of these minimum wage types work more than 40 hours a week, and most not that much so their employers can keep them at part time classification.

You know what I would do there?

I look up a plumber, call him and ask if he needs part time help. If he says no, I tell him I'll work for free. Even then he will probably throw you a few dollars just because most people are decent enough to do that.

I would work for free, or very little with that plumber. After a few months, after you've learned some things and can be of help, ask him for a job, or a reference.

Boom, you just got a $10/hr job as a plumber helper.

You work there for a year or two, growing your skills and knowledge as his helper, and you've probably gotten a raise by then to 12 or better. Gain his trust by coming to work on time, staying sober, not stealing from him or the customers, and not being a dick head.

Then you get your plumbers license. In this time you could have easily accumulated a bunch of tools, and saved enough money for a van or truck. Depending on circumstances, he can expand his business through your license, your truck, and you make even more money.

After a few years of this, guess what, it's time for your plumbing company.

Click to expand...

I hope you saved at your last job that paid $7.00. Oh wait. Rent? Food? Fuel? Healthcare? How many more jobs of better wage are being created that can actually get filled?

When the better jobs and careers are filled there is sometimes no place for the unprepared to go. So new entries should prepare themselves. Then they get a loan. Then they get injured/sick. See how simple anyone starting can get hung up without some sort of oversight?


Plumber:
You would have to work for free as a laborer in your example. During this time you are living off of savings? Where did this come from? A plumber is going to abuse a free donkey more likely then teach him anything. I hope you can find a non union plumber, good luck if you are in a city find one of those.


Oversight is a necessary evil, because there are even worse entities that will take advantage of employees and abuse them. Not everything goes according to plan, you pointed out your own addiction issues.

*edit for spelling/ grammar*
Blasted phone.

What I was trying to get at BnB is that the job market isn't as open and available as it was during your time.

Shit is changing so quickly that new college graduates have a difficult time, no matter if it is hard science or not.

However I do understand your 'bootstraps' mentality. The options for those just entering the workforce is so limited this is not always an option.

I did alright, but I was really lucky.

AlecTheGardener said:

What I was trying to get at BnB is that the job market isn't as open and available as it was during your time.

Shit is changing so quickly that new college graduates have a difficult time, no matter if it is hard science or not.

However I do understand your 'bootstraps' mentality. The options for those just entering the workforce is so limited this is not always an option.

I did alright, but I was really lucky.

Click to expand...

nothing left......yes. bread and circuses. SNAP cards and football games.

Rome falls

MidwesternGro said:

Why would it suck for her? She would be entirely unaffected by it.

Click to expand...

lol, bignnbushy sank his parents' money into a pyramid scheme from the sounds of it.

Its a great Idea, I am SURE that the interest will only increase at an even greater rate with a 10% maximum imposed. You know idiots will go for that and make the min payment until they are 65 years old and just got their student loans paid off. talk about a monkey on your back. Now a $30,000 education will cost $120,000 or more in interest before you get it paid off in 40 years.

I have a better idea. get government out of the school loan business and watch a bunch of colleges go bankrupt, leaving behind a truly affordable education for us all.

When I went to college tuition was only $1800 a semester for a High ranking state Sponsored University.

MidwesternGro said:

False! I view most of higher education as a grifting operation these days.

I had to bend over and pay inflated prices for books and tuition simply because the demand was driven up due to a rarity in good paying jobs right out of high school.

Click to expand...

Demand is actually driven up by the fact that government will loan anyone who can fog a mirror a loan for up to $90,000 for school. Then the government propaganda is that the average college graduate makes 75% more than a HS graduate, when that is actually a statistical lie.

You don't even need a college education anymore since anyone with enough gumption can teach themselves anything for free on the internet seeing as how all the information is there.

MidwesternGro said:

Why would it suck for her? She would be entirely unaffected by it.

Click to expand...

If you think someone making $14 an hour would be unaffected by raising the minimum wage from 7.5 to 10.1, then you are a total retard.

Dude, about the plumber trainer thing. You act like that is absurd.

If you have very little knowledge of a skilled trade, and you want to break into it, how do you do it? Your answer would be go to some school, get into debt, just to get out and make the same money you could make if you did the arrangement I mentioned.

When I was in law school, we all got internships. There are only a handful of paid internship programs in the entire country. You work for free to learn. Because even if you graduated law school, passed the bar and became a full fledged attorney, you would still have no idea how to practice law unless you worked for free to learn.

Doctors get out and have to work for crumbs for 4 to 6 years before they are able to practice medicine.

That is how it is done.

If you are a 19 year old kid who has only worked fast food jobs, you aren't worth anything to plumbers, electricians, or any other skilled trade.

It is how the world always did it until recently, and it took a long time, it was called being an apprentice.

If you call a big national companies they won't have helpers and stuff.

If you call a local small business, they might, they could if they wanted to, and many do.

You seem to be of the opinion that if you spend 40 hours a week helping do something that you are entitled to me fully funding your existence, at a level you dictate.

I think you and I are too far apart on our views on this that we don't have any common ground.

I'm in favor of the person who signs the front of the check, it's his business.

You know why flipping burgers isn't worth $10/hr right now? Because there are millions of people doing it for much less right now.

AlecTheGardener said:

I hope you saved at your last job that paid $7.00. Oh wait. Rent? Food? Fuel? Healthcare? How many more jobs of better wage are being created that can actually get filled?

When the better jobs and careers are filled there is sometimes no place for the unprepared to go. So new entries should prepare themselves. Then they get a loan. Then they get injured/sick. See how simple anyone starting can get hung up without some sort of oversight?


Plumber:
You would have to work for free as a laborer in your example. During this time you are living off of savings? Where did this come from? A plumber is going to abuse a free donkey more likely then teach him anything. I hope you can find a non union plumber, good luck if you are in a city find one of those.


Oversight is a necessary evil, because there are even worse entities that will take advantage of employees and abuse them. Not everything goes according to plan, you pointed out your own addiction issues.

*edit for spelling/ grammar*
Blasted phone.

Click to expand...

You don't start working for the plumber full time.

When you're working for free, to learn a skill, you can choose when you work.

You keep your shitty minimum wage job and work for him on your days off.

You perhaps see if you can work 3 12 hour shifts at McDonalds. Then you work 2 days for the plumber.

You start out with him telling him you're willing to do this for a few months in the hopes of becoming valuable to him. At that time either he hires you, or gives you a letter of reference saying you are capable and dependable and a worthy assistant.

BigNBushy said:

You know why flipping burgers isn't worth $10/hr right now? Because there are millions of people doing it for much less right now.

Click to expand...

The In-N-Out burger down the street start starts at $10.50 if you're looking for a change of scenery.

http://www.in-n-out.com/employment/restaurant.aspx

UncleBuck said:

lol, bignnbushy sank his parents' money into a pyramid scheme from the sounds of it.

Click to expand...

You've been talking a lot about me and a pyramid scheme.

What the fuck are you talking about?

I'm in the security system business. We have a local brick and mortar store. Nothing pyramid about it.

travisw said:

The In-N-Out burger down the street start starts at $10.50 if you're looking for a change of scenery.

http://www.in-n-out.com/employment/restaurant.aspx

Click to expand...

In-n-out is a west coast thing? I've never heard of them.

I was simply shedding light on the ever decreasing sized pinhead target that is success in the US job market.

Throughout history apprentices were treated as well compensated indentured workers. They were taught a skill, trade or education that had value. Sometimes it was a lot more grim and less cut and dry. They were given a minimum of room, and board.

Few internships emulate this, by paying or even providing room and board.

Shrinking opportunities and pinhead targets.


We must agree to disagree BnB. Though I completely understand you opinion, there are many exceptional aspects and points. I just disagree.

AlecTheGardener said:

I was simply shedding light on the ever decreasing sized pinhead target that is success in the US job market.

Throughout history apprentices were treated as well compensated indentured workers. They were taught a skill, trade or education that had value. Sometimes it was a lot more grim and less cut and dry. They were given a minimum of room, and board.

Few internships emulate this, by paying or even providing room and board.

Shrinking opportunities and pinhead targets.


We must agree to disagree BnB. Though I completely understand you opinion, there are many exceptional aspects and points. I just disagree.

Click to expand...

That is fine with me, reasonable minds can disagree.

There has never been a better time in the history of America to start a business. Social media what it is, you can reach so many people so easily and it's all free.

All it takes is hard work, most people just want 40 hours, and a company match.