The Dan Kone Thread of Legalizing For Us All.

[Dan Kone]

Great thread! I too have similar ideas and concepts.

No reason this needs to be limited to just what me and Ernest think. Your input is most welcomed here.

Alas there is a backward system and who is to say there won't be debate upon registering for home growing,

Why have registration for home growing? As long as your legal and it's for personal use, that shouldn't be the government's business. It only becomes their business when you make a profit on it IMO. Then they are entitled to taxes, just like if you were running any other business.

I see this as a great plan but who is going to make it stick? when the law is broken by the law who stops them?

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Maybe give an example? (hypothetical or real)

 

[Dan Kone]

Dan, I like your ideas, involves more incentive than regulation... the way it should be for everything IMO...Also nice that tax money would be kept locally, i do believe this could garner some support from the people we need it from

Thank you very much. I wasn't sure people would understand what I was hoping to achieve by doing that.

I tried to keep regulation to a minimum. The regulations that were put in were done so for a reason. I put those in there because during prop 19 is was made very clear that the majority of people hate the idea of pot walmarts or massive bud manufacturing warehouses like they wanted to do in Oakland. Just the idea that they were possible is one of the reasons prop 19 failed. Because of that I thought it was necessary to eliminate the possibility of their existence all together. Rather than have a few people make billions it's probably better than a lot of people make thousands.

As far as local incentives go, I think that is necessary. It's one thing to legalize it, it's another to get cities/counties to cooperate with legalization. This gives them an incentive to do so and a reason for communities to support collectives. Basically, I wanted something in their to help promote a mutually beneficial coexistence between smokers and non-smokers. It doesn't need to be an us Vs them environment. A law where everyone wins not only has a better chance of passing, it has a better chance of being effective.

 

[Michael Sparks]

No reason this needs to be limited to just what me and Ernest think. Your input is most welcomed here.

Not really refined quite yet but in time.

Why have registration for home growing? As long as your legal and it's for personal use, that shouldn't be the government's business. It only becomes their business when you make a profit on it IMO. Then they are entitled to taxes, just like if you were running any other business.

Earlier you states permit for grows so i suppose i would just be skeptical as if it would be accepted I agree the tax would gain it sight and ground for a concrete state where no one would feel cheated.

I'm not sure I understand what you're saying here. Maybe give an example? (hypothetical or real)

I'm just stating that i would really like those that uphold the law to do just that not be tip toeing the line, but that goes into a whole other topic.

 

[Dan Kone]

I'm just stating that i would really like those that uphold the law to do just that not be tip toeing the line, but that goes into a whole other topic.

Ahhh. Yeah. Agreed. I wish I knew how to get cops to prioritize public well being over the thrill of a bust. Seems like a lot of these drug cops just like the adrenaline of a good ol fashion bust. They also seem to really enjoy the lower risk to their safety involved with busting people for cannabis. Why risk dealing with tweakers in a meth lab when they can go crack some hippie skulls together!

Yeah, Don't know how to stop cops from being cops.

 

[Dan Kone]

Not really refined quite yet but in time.

Excellent.

Earlier you states permit for grows so i suppose i would just be skeptical as if it would be accepted I agree the tax would gain it sight and ground for a concrete state where no one would feel cheated.

Ahhh, my bad. The permits were meant to be for commercial growing/selling only. I'm 100% against registering personal grows with the government. I agree, that would be easy to abuse. If there is no business being done and it takes place in the privacy of your own home, it's no one's business but your own as far as I'm concerned.

 

[Michael Sparks]

I would agree ( Pot Walmart) it is a bad idea we can see what walmart did to small businesses everywhere, people are going to use, some may abuse but those that keep it responsible keep a movement going, just start and continue positive trends keeping those in line that stray, we can look out for one another somewhere along the way we lost sight of helping each other.

 

[HarryCarey]

Thank you very much. I wasn't sure people would understand what I was hoping to achieve by doing that.

I tried to keep regulation to a minimum. The regulations that were put in were done so for a reason. I put those in there because during prop 19 is was made very clear that the majority of people hate the idea of pot walmarts or massive bud manufacturing warehouses like they wanted to do in Oakland. Just the idea that they were possible is one of the reasons prop 19 failed. Because of that I thought it was necessary to eliminate the possibility of their existence all together. Rather than have a few people make billions it's probably better than a lot of people make thousands.

As far as local incentives go, I think that is necessary. It's one thing to legalize it, it's another to get cities/counties to cooperate with legalization. This gives them an incentive to do so and a reason for communities to support collectives. Basically, I wanted something in their to help promote a mutually beneficial coexistence between smokers and non-smokers. It doesn't need to be an us Vs them environment. A law where everyone wins not only has a better chance of passing, it has a better chance of being effective.

That is the essence of antitrust laws and anti monopoly legislation that are supposedly in place today...unfortunately our gov. has manipulated the system into encouraging only large industrial operations that can afford the exorbitant taxes and regulations on most business(nice voter initiative tax clause), and that is the essence of why america is failing today(if only more people felt that way about real Walmarts, Home Depots, Commercial Farming etc.)... we were once a place where you could start your mom and pop business now that is discouraged by regs, taxes, permits, unions etc.......now for the regs. like you said those will be needed in order to appease the hardcore anti folks while the incentives encourage the on the fence folks to fall on our side(who can argue with localized funding increases for schools, maybe even a few well selected public programs). Ill have to go back and read your proposal again to jump in the debate a little more...I do have some of my own ideas but will have to polish them a bit to compete in here

 

[Ernst]

What parts of this deal with the Mexican Cartels?

They now are supplying Australia with Coke,Meth and weed.
I'm thinking we have a problem reaching the Hispanic community.

Even the new Prop 19 Crew have a Hispanic task manager.

Just tossing out some input..

 

[Michael Sparks]

come now who do you think funds the cartels ? when business is big who is likely to get involved ? why are u.s. military forces in columbia surly not protecting coca fields but hey i need not bring such things up in politics. (this is not a bash) i am just passionate about equality and open truth

 

[Dan Kone]

That is the essence of antitrust laws and anti monopoly legislation that are supposedly in place today...unfortunately our gov. has manipulated the system into encouraging only large industrial operations that can afford the exorbitant taxes and regulations on most business(nice voter initiative tax clause), and that is the essence of why america is failing today(if only more people felt that way about real Walmarts, Home Depots, Commercial Farming etc.)... we were once a place where you could start your mom and pop business now that is discouraged by regs, taxes, permits, unions etc......

Luckily our state government functions much differently our federal government. Our ballot initiative system is direct democracy in California. Unlike laws passed in congress, laws passed through ballot initiative can not be changed on the whims and self interests of congress. The only way to change them is with the consent of the people through another ballot initiative.

That is why it is so important to address commercialization through a ballot initiative instead of an assembly bill. Once a ballot initiative is passed, corporate interests can't just lobby congress for new rules that favor their dreams of monopoly.

Ill have to go back and read your proposal again to jump in the debate a little more...I do have some of my own ideas but will have to polish them a bit to compete in here

Your opinions and/or criticisms are most welcome.

 

[HarryCarey]

What parts of this deal with the Mexican Cartels?

They now are supplying Australia with Coke,Meth and weed.
I'm thinking we have a problem reaching the Hispanic community.

Even the new Prop 19 Crew have a Hispanic task manager.

Just tossing out some input..

They no longer have a market here, thats how the price system works no one(well some probly still will, can never eliminate black markets completely) will need a compressed bricked up shit quality seeded kilo anymore when the market is full of only top quality buds for relativley low prices, not to mention you could grow your own and consign it at the local shop/collective.....it will also provide the government with many many more resources previously used to fight marijuana to help fight meth coke heroin, cartels whatever else they deem necessary.

 

[Dan Kone]

What parts of this deal with the Mexican Cartels?

They now are supplying Australia with Coke,Meth and weed.
I'm thinking we have a problem reaching the Hispanic community.

Even the new Prop 19 Crew have a Hispanic task manager.

Just tossing out some input..

Removing cannabis sales from the black market and putting them in legitimate retail businesses goes a long way in taking away the cartel's market share. Their massive scale outdoor grows would be made explicitly illegal under my proposition. I wouldn't have a problem with a regulation in there that prevents people who have violent felony convictions from participating in commercial growing/sales.

But hey, if they want to quit the violent crime and run a legitimate business instead, good for them.

 

[Dan Kone]

Now Ernest, you called me out and asked me to go through the trouble of posting what I think legalization should look like, it's only fair you do the same. Lets see it. What do you support in full.

 

[Ernst]

Excuse me. How does what you say effect things in reality? That the organized drug dealing will magically disappear? How does that work?
I take it an increased police presence will do the actual work of stopping the already entrenched black market?

Look at the my town post.. The My Shoes post and tell me how things will change for me and my town.

It's one thing that an Initiative will address the more liberal areas of California. It is another thing to implement anything cannabis in Turlock.

 

[Michael Sparks]

look at in the eyes of everyone, there are gains and losses on both sides; depending how one looks, i can see legalization in a positive light where those that put their heart into cultivating, produce a beautiful product; just like any other farmer, (there is almost always a) but when people start thinking in ways that goes against those in power such mean are taken, such as labled a plant a drug, imo because it evokes free mindedness that one may not have thought prior to consumption, I truly want the best for all but there are those that oppose such ways because it goes against their way. we can acknowledge this privately, through history we can see the errors of our ways. if we want something we need to make it damn clear we want it.

 

[HarryCarey]

Excuse me. How does what you say that the organized drug dealing will magically disappear?
I take it an increased police presence will do the actual work of stopping the already entrenched black market?

Look at my town post.. The My Shoes post and tell me how things will change for me and my town.

It's one thing that an Initiative will address the more liberal areas of California. It is another thing to implement anything cannabis in Turlock.

No they simply wont have customers anymore, that means no more profit.......and there not recieving any gov't benefits like most of our companies that can no longer turn a profit, so they will go away or innovate. And as far as a conservative town or area not allowing canabis based on moral or social grounds, that is a batlle fought at the local level within a communitie and should not be attempted to be answered by the overall initiative

 

[Ernst]

They no longer have a market here, thats how the price system works no one(well some probly still will, can never eliminate black markets completely) will need a compressed bricked up shit quality seeded kilo anymore when the market is full of only top quality buds for relativley low prices, not to mention you could grow your own and consign it at the local shop/collective.....it will also provide the government with many many more resources previously used to fight marijuana to help fight meth coke heroin, cartels whatever else they deem necessary.

Okay. It's popular to point out deluded points so let me try.

Who and what army are going to stop the Cartels? The Federal government has backed off not stopped the Narco-trade.

Consider this. We can't stop the Cartels be they American or Mexican but we can legalize for the people and impact the Cartel's retail aspects.
It will take a long time to turn the tide of the Cartels.. I just pointed out that The Mexican cartel is powerful. It has the Number three rank is the World.

We simply are deluded to think our laws are going to change an economic force of narcotics trafficking. I cite the failed war on drugs.

We can however, introduce a change in the social freedoms and empower those who can and will grow cannabis to offset the market be it Mexican cartel, American cartel or the New Kid on the Block the Medical Marijuana Cartel.
How does that work?

 

[Dan Kone]

Excuse me. How does what you say that the organized drug dealing will magically disappear?
I take it an increased police presence will do the actual work of stopping the already entrenched black market?

No. It's a market based solution, not a regulatory based solution. No increased police activity is necessary.

By creating a legal market, the black market is no longer necessary, nor is it preferred. People do not want mexican brick weed when they could go to the store and pick up fresh locally grown bud. Not many people prefer doing a drug deal with a dangerous gang member when they can safely buy the same product in a store.

Just look at alcohol. It took a couple years, but after prohibition ended, the alcohol black market dried up. The average American doesn't go to buy beer from one of Al Capone's henchmen, they go to a liquor store. The black market is a result of the prohibition of commercial sales. Allow commercial sales and the usefulness of the black market expires.

It's one thing that an Initiative will address the more liberal areas of California. It is another thing to implement anything cannabis in Turlock.

My proposition gives Turlock incentives to embrace legalization.

Where's your proposition Ernest?

 

[Ernst]

No they simply wont have customers anymore, that means no more profit.......and there not recieving any gov't benefits like most of our companies that can no longer turn a profit, so they will go away or innovate. And as far as a conservative town or area not allowing canabis based on moral or social grounds, that is a batlle fought at the local level within a communitie and should not be attempted to be answered by the overall initiative

Who wont have customers?

The very people who make my fast food here? They get to deal as they move up the ranks. It's obvious to see a guy on a bike one month driving a nice car the next.

Our Laws are going to stop that?

What i think is there is a lack of experience of living and working with the very people we think our Laws are going to magically transform.

I agree we need to take charge and change thing but to think a piece of paper will magically transform whole communities and disrupt the cartels is lite on reality.

We can effect change is a subtle way.. We can legalize for the people and skip the industry this time.. Let our law enforcement benefit from not needing to arrest our people for cannabis.

 

[Ernst]

I have two channels of reply to respond to so i will break for a while and let it all settle so we can renew our discussion.

Grab a cup of tea guys..