The Draft?

canndo

Well-Known Member
Read something else on an argument to reinstate the draft - as a failsafe measure against unwarrented wars.

I have often argued against the draft because I know that the priveliged tend to have their children passed over while the poor and the disadvantaged are still pitched into wars conceived or fomented by those who have nothing to lose and lots to gain. So long, that is, that their sons or daughters are not forced into the equation.

What the author talks about however is that a volunteer army is self selecting for a certain sort of individual, one that may well not be descerning as to the orders he or she obeys. This article was written after the Mai Lai incident and long before abu Graib and all the other nonsense surrounding our most recent wars.

I still believe that a a truly universal induction into the service can never be possible in this country but I wonder if it might be wise to include an "ethics" officer in each unit, someone who is not quite subjugated into the military ideology of doing what you are commanded to do. It is clear that no military person is to follow illegal orders but that to my knowlege is never stressed - that is, a soldier is trained to follow orders, to fire his weapon, to work within the chain of command but he is not trained to understand the ethics of his service and without that it is difficult for, especially young people to apply their sense of decency to prolonged armed conflict.
 

canndo

Well-Known Member
Sounds a lot, however, like the old U.S.S.R.'s inclusion of a political officer though.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
"ain't no Viet Cong ever done anything to me" (or something like that) was said by Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali back in the Viet Nam war draft days. Involuntary servitude is a slippery slope, fuck the draft.
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
"ain't no Viet Cong ever done anything to me" (or something like that) was said by Cassius Clay / Muhammad Ali back in the Viet Nam war draft days. Involuntary servitude is a slippery slope, fuck the draft.
"No Vietnamese ever called me nigger."

edit for drunken typo
 

redivider

Well-Known Member
every able bodied swiss has to serve at the age of 19, then they get to take their guns home.

how many wars have the swiss started?? it's not unusual, i think if every, i mean every 19 year old was forced to serve in the army, we'd have a military industrial complex that was waaay smaller and more efficient.
 

silasraven

Well-Known Member
it will have to be out of they need troops. they just raised the standard to get into any military branch. it will have to be in the distant ,worlds fucked up future.
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
every able bodied swiss has to serve at the age of 19, then they get to take their guns home.

how many wars have the swiss started?? it's not unusual, i think if every, i mean every 19 year old was forced to serve in the army, we'd have a military industrial complex that was waaay smaller and more efficient.
Using force to ensure "peace" is a contradiction. If every 19 year old was forced to serve in the army you would be instituting a form of involuntary servitude for at least some of those 19 year olds. The military industrial complex? Thank you for not calling it the "defense industry".
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Using force to ensure "peace" is a contradiction. If every 19 year old was forced to serve in the army you would be instituting a form of involuntary servitude for at least some of those 19 year olds. The military industrial complex? Thank you for not calling it the "defense industry".
I disagree that it is a contradiction. The concept of coexistence without need for force breaks on the first heckler, troll or rowdy. It is a somewhat selective take on human nature imo.
When faced with a rowdy, a show of strength leads to a much-improved chance of peace. cn
 

Rob Roy

Well-Known Member
I disagree that it is a contradiction. The concept of coexistence without need for force breaks on the first heckler, troll or rowdy. It is a somewhat selective take on human nature imo.
When faced with a rowdy, a show of strength leads to a much-improved chance of peace. cn
Okay. Suppose the "rowdy" is the person that forces another to bear arms? How do you reconcile that?
 

overgrowem

Well-Known Member
it will have to be out of they need troops. they just raised the standard to get into any military branch. it will have to be in the distant ,worlds fucked up future.
Right! It was the Military that wanted to end the draft in first place.the military is far to complicated to train any but the highly motivated.and what good does it do to train a soldier for todays army who will only do a 2 year stretch, a big waste of money for a broke country.Not to mention the take what you get aspect of the draft.The recruiter laughed out loud when he saw me,do you think I would been a good soldier?He would have been stuck with me and my poor attitude none the less.Anyone who wants to reinstate the draft is simple
 

Dr Kynes

Well-Known Member
if a Draft was in place we would have never started that stupid Iraqi war.
orly?

so with a draft in place the us would have stood by and violated the mutual defense treaty with kuwait?

REALLY?

you have no clue why the war in iraq began or why it continued for so long.
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Liberals talked about the draft when Dubbya was in office. But, at that time it was seen as a way he would turn us into the Fourth Reich.

Fast forward to King Dumbo. Now the draft is the great equalizer towards world peace!

You liberals are truly fucked in the head.
 

Fungus Gnat

Well-Known Member
Liberals talked about the draft when Dubbya was in office. But, at that time it was seen as a way he would turn us into the Fourth Reich.

Fast forward to King Dumbo. Now the draft is the great equalizer towards world peace!

You liberals are truly fucked in the head.
 

Red1966

Well-Known Member
every able bodied swiss has to serve at the age of 19, then they get to take their guns home. how many wars have the swiss started?? it's not unusual, i think if every, i mean every 19 year old was forced to serve in the army, we'd have a military industrial complex that was waaay smaller and more efficient.
When in modern history have the Swiss fought in a war? I don't see how multiplying the number of military personnel 100-fold would shrink the military industrial complex. But forcing every household to have a fully automatic assault rifle in good working condition on hand has reduced their murder to near zero. So much for gun control.
 

ElfoodStampo

Well-Known Member
Hey! can we start a gun thread and post pictures of our cool weapons! I'm playing G.I. Joe with my AR and 1911 right now.
For realz

If you would have asked me before 9/11 I would have volunteered for war. But now, I'm not sure what I would do.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
Okay. Suppose the "rowdy" is the person that forces another to bear arms? How do you reconcile that?
Isn't that already the state of things? The threat to peace, to a collectively-embraced ethos of society, is the pesky individual tendency to say and believe "fuck you". The guys who say Fuck You and are willing to put some steel behind the sentiment are the ones against whom we as individuals and small, cohesive societies (tribes, villages, families) take up arms. Jmo. cn
 

Canna Sylvan

Well-Known Member
Hey! can we start a gun thread and post pictures of our cool weapons! I'm playing G.I. Joe with my AR and 1911 right now.
For realz

If you would have asked me before 9/11 I would have volunteered for war. But now, I'm not sure what I would do.
Just be careful and don't kill any innocent kids. Ok?
 

Mr Neutron

Well-Known Member
Isn't that already the state of things? The threat to peace, to a collectively-embraced ethos of society, is the pesky individual tendency to say and believe "fuck you". The guys who say Fuck You and are willing to put some steel behind the sentiment are the ones against whom we as individuals and small, cohesive societies (tribes, villages, families) take up arms. Jmo. cn
Where is the threshold for bringing out the steel?
 
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