The Official Canna Coco & Nutrients Thread

[skullonastick]

Hoping someone can help here, not sure if my leaves are drooping due to over or underwatering or if possibly any other reason.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

Hi green thumbs. Please could you help?

I have been bottom feeding a mix of fems, using coco canna A/B, had some problems recently, perhaps a combo of over watering issues, heat/light. droop, slight necrosis. They'r 25 days since 1st true leaf.

I have got them back to health and am flipping lights in a few days. What I need to know. When bottom feeding, I absolutely loved it, the level and consistency of moisture was great. But I fear that the wilting and slower growth necr. etc could be down to not getting run off? I hope this isnt the case, as I enjoyed it.

I flushed, and gave last feed the standard way 10% from top feeding. Changed the light heith and a few adjustments like trimming the little stuff, improving the circulation. My dilema is, this: is the new growth more likely to be the environment change, or cause i flushed and top fed. Theres some perlite at the bottom of pots. temps hang around 28 - 29C.. light at around 14" (higher now). What medium and nutes can I use which allows bottom feeding?

Thanks Green thumbs, my second grow... it's better than the first btw

i dont know man, if you were having success then stick with it
but i dont hear about to many peopl bottom feeding. probably because when you feed to runoff you are leeching out the salts, and keeping a healthy medium. keeping it from getting to heavy with the salts, and salt build up can be an issue using this nutrient line. I feed to runoff, but i dont always do it, and i also dont do it to 20% every time either. just as long as your getting some runoff and your gonna be okay. I will also add this stuff is pretty strong, and i feed mine with 5-8 ml at full strength feed and my plants are have plenty. they dont need any more, that is for sure. I did stop feeding to runoff once when i was dialing in my feed schedule when i got started with coco, and i got deficency signs, cal mag, and it was just locking out, so i started back to the runoff. If I didnt exactly answer your question its because i wasnt 100% clear, but i hope this helps.
good luck

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

Hoping someone can help here, not sure if my leaves are drooping due to over or underwatering or if possibly any other reason.

Hoping someone can help here, not sure if my leaves are drooping due to over or underwatering or if possibly any other reason.

for some reason i cant see your first pic, but i saw the 2nd one. cant tell much really, what is your feed schedule like? pot size? coco/perlite? or straight coco? etc

 

[skullonastick]

for some reason i cant see your first pic, but i saw the 2nd one. cant tell much really, what is your feed schedule like? pot size? coco/perlite? or straight coco? etc

Well, pot size is 16 litres but there's probably more like 10-11 litres of straight coco in them, hadn't factored when I originally planted them that the coco would compact a bit. Feed wise I have been watering when the pots began to feel light, using Canna A+B initially. All 3 plants have grown differently even tho all 3 seeds from the same pack, planted and grown in the same conditions. 1 plant stayed kinda small and flowered earlier than the other 2 and looks well on it's way but the buds on it are very small compared to the next one to flower, the 3rd is the one in the pics, seemed to grow a lot slower than the other 2 and a lot bushier but the last couple of weeks I guess, it has been drooping and looking kinda greasy. My gut tells me it's underwatering as it's rapidly using up whatever I put in compared to the other 2. Will put some more pics up in a couple of hours, can't do it atm as they are in their dark period till 8 am. As well as the Canna A+B I have also recently started using Canna Boost in all 3 plants and PK13/14 in the first 2.

 

[skullonastick]

These 3 are from the first plant to start flowering

 

[skullonastick]

These are from the 2nd to flower

 

[skullonastick]

And these are from the last to flower, this is the one that keeps drooping on me.

 

[pink isn't well]

i dont know man, if you were having success then stick with it
but i dont hear about to many peopl bottom feeding. probably because when you feed to runoff you are leeching out the salts, and keeping a healthy medium. keeping it from getting to heavy with the salts, and salt build up can be an issue using this nutrient line. I feed to runoff, but i dont always do it, and i also dont do it to 20% every time either. just as long as your getting some runoff and your gonna be okay. I will also add this stuff is pretty strong, and i feed mine with 5-8 ml at full strength feed and my plants are have plenty. they dont need any more, that is for sure. I did stop feeding to runoff once when i was dialing in my feed schedule when i got started with coco, and i got deficency signs, cal mag, and it was just locking out, so i started back to the runoff. If I didnt exactly answer your question its because i wasnt 100% clear, but i hope this helps.
good luck

Yeah, you were pretty clear, It seems, that that nute line is strong and salts are an issue for loads of novice growers like me.
It looks obvious to me, I can slow down on the nutes, and get some run off. I havent been lazy, I read other threads on bottom feeding and others do it, but have to pay extra attention to the salts. perhaps ill continue with bottom feeding, and every 3rd feed, just ph water from the top, 10-20%.

When you say 5-8 mil full strength, what size container? I mix solution in a 5 ltr water jack. (1.3 gal jug). Just for some scale.
Thanks for your reply. Appreciated. J

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

Yeah, you were pretty clear, It seems, that that nute line is strong and salts are an issue for loads of novice growers like me.
It looks obvious to me, I can slow down on the nutes, and get some run off. I havent been lazy, I read other threads on bottom feeding and others do it, but have to pay extra attention to the salts. perhaps ill continue with bottom feeding, and every 3rd feed, just ph water from the top, 10-20%.

When you say 5-8 mil full strength, what size container? I mix solution in a 5 ltr water jack. (1.3 gal jug). Just for some scale.
Thanks for your reply. Appreciated. J

oh, whoops...ya, 5-7 ml. per gallon. i forget we arent all in america. shit, the nutes are from switzerland or somthing...dont quote me! lol, but ya, maybe continue what yr doing, then every 3rd or 4th feed give it a good runofff feed from top....just a suggestion. like i said tho, if it works, do it.
take care bud

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

Well, pot size is 16 litres but there's probably more like 10-11 litres of straight coco in them, hadn't factored when I originally planted them that the coco would compact a bit. Feed wise I have been watering when the pots began to feel light, using Canna A+B initially. All 3 plants have grown differently even tho all 3 seeds from the same pack, planted and grown in the same conditions. 1 plant stayed kinda small and flowered earlier than the other 2 and looks well on it's way but the buds on it are very small compared to the next one to flower, the 3rd is the one in the pics, seemed to grow a lot slower than the other 2 and a lot bushier but the last couple of weeks I guess, it has been drooping and looking kinda greasy. My gut tells me it's underwatering as it's rapidly using up whatever I put in compared to the other 2. Will put some more pics up in a couple of hours, can't do it atm as they are in their dark period till 8 am. As well as the Canna A+B I have also recently started using Canna Boost in all 3 plants and PK13/14 in the first 2.

i have read that if you treat coco as soil, you will get sub par results at best. Im not the guru of coco by a long shoit i will add, i have just dialed in what works for me, using these nutrients. In flower, i feed canna a+b, 5-7 ml/gal, 6-8ml cannazym, 2-6ml pk 13/14 (depending on what week in flower i am) 2-6ml of cal/mag (i match the pk. 13/14...If i up the pk, i up the cal/mag, since they can use more when they are taking on .he pk) and i add 1/2ml each of flying skull a+b enzyme. that is it....and i feed it daily, regardless. it will drink it, EVERYTIME, as long as you got a solid root system
this is what i have decent success with man. i tried feeding it like soil briefly, and i was unsatisfied. maybe cut back on yr ml, and feed more often....they will take what you throw at em in coco.

 

[smokadepep]

I just switched over to the canna coco ab line.

Medium: canna coco in 2 gallon smart-pot
Lighting: 1000w hps
Second week of flower
Nutrients: Canna coco a\b 5ml a gallon, magical 1ml a gallon, protekt .75 ml a gallon in soft tap water
Ph: 5.9
Showing signs of nitrogen toxicity
Top leaves are Clawing and canoeing upside down
Flushed with ph'd 6.0 tap water.

I have read that canna a\b is high in nitrogen, what are people doing early flowering that keeps the high nitrogen levels down?

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

lower the amount of ab, and add pk 13-14 makes it more like a "bloom" formula.
i found this on another thread...dial it back obviously, since your burning at 5 ml....maybe try 4ml...shit....some strains just are not tolerant to nutrients period....but anyway, use this guys info, and dial it down....

So at 15 ml/gal each of A and B you get approx

N - 234
P - 76
K - 112
Mg - 91
S - 31
Ca - 238

estimated TDS@.7 1533
estimated TDS@.5 1095
estimated EC/uS 2190

and the 10 ml/gal A + B, plus 10 ml/gal PK 13/14 for that one week in flower gives you:

N - 156
P - 230
K - 443
Mg - 61
S - 20
Ca - 159

see, this guy had an expensive tds meter that apparently broke down individual nutrients, i found it very helpful in my grows.

also, i want to add, this amount would absolutely FRY your plant if your having issues at 5ml. just want to be clear i am not promoting you to match his numbers. he had a very hungry strain apparently.

 

[Skunk Baxter]

Yeah, I am amazed at how potent that Canna shit is. It's like they're putting plutonium in there or something. Mine were at about 24 inches when I flipped to 12/12 a month ago, and I have plants well over 6 feet tall. My first time with coco, my first time with Canna, and I learned the hard way how fast they grow with that combo. I dialed 'em back early on, but was way too slow to realize how much more I needed to back off, and reluctant to go too low.

I'm at 400 PPM now, and decided to dump the reservoir an hour ago. I'll remix in the morning with even less A and B, and save the TDS headroom for the bloom nutes. I just don't have any more room in there. Getting some nice buddage, though; now it's time to fatten 'em up anyway. Got one top bud that's about 15-18 inches long, although it's hard to tell for sure when half your SOG is bent over and tied down into whatever empty spaces are still left. I spent 2 hours in there tonight rearranging each plant so that none of the colas are overlapping... for now, anyway.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

Yeah, I am amazed at how potent that Canna shit is. It's like they're putting plutonium in there or something. .

right? lol....
I also am fairly new to coco as a medium, and coco a+b as well.been using it for the last couple grows. I switched over from using "the go box" nutrient line. What a joke in comparison man!
anyway....would love to see some pics. sounds lush. What strain you running>? you said you got those results at 400ppm huh? I satarted out like 1200ppm when all was mixed in, and I started seeing burn, so i kept dialing it back from there....I just cant believe they tell you to start out so HIGH man!
on a side note...
how do you flush before harvest? i am a week out from chop and am trying clearex. alot of ppl call it a waste, but shit, its like $10 so i can afford to throw it away.

 

[Skunk Baxter]

right? lol....
I also am fairly new to coco as a medium, and coco a+b as well.been using it for the last couple grows. I switched over from using "the go box" nutrient line. What a joke in comparison man!
anyway....would love to see some pics. sounds lush. What strain you running>? you said you got those results at 400ppm huh? I satarted out like 1200ppm when all was mixed in, and I started seeing burn, so i kept dialing it back from there....I just cant believe they tell you to start out so HIGH man!
on a side note...
how do you flush before harvest? i am a week out from chop and am trying clearex. alot of ppl call it a waste, but shit, its like $10 so i can afford to throw it away.

I'm not sure about the flushing; never used coco before and I'm just going into Week 5, so it'll be a few weeks before I have to make that decision. I'm still feeling my way along on a day-to-day basis. And actually, 400 is what I most recently dropped down to - most of the stretch was between 600 and 750 or 800. I started at around 800, and kept dialing it back until I hit 600, but the damned things were still growing so fast I had to stand back to keep 'em from knocking me over. Finally, in Week 3, I said "fuck it - you're only getting 400 from now on, you stretchy bitches." That still didn't work, so I'm at 300 now.

I will definitely post some pics - I'm a little embarrassed by how skinny the buds are after 4 weeks, but they're starting to frost up and fill out the last couple of days. I'm growing Albino Rhino from BC Bud Depot, and it's breaking down into two primary phenotypes - one very sativa dominant, with long, stretchy buds, and one classic indica with nice, tight colas. I'll try to shoot some pics tonight and get them up here. Just don't laugh too hard! The ones that are tied down are obviously the sativa pheno, and the ones that are upright are the indicas - which I already cloned for when it's time to select a mother.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

i dont judge, but i understand your reluctance. I have come across some crude and rude dudes on here. lol....but i understand how things go. trust me. lol, and if you need something to make you feel better about your grow, just go over my journal entrys dude. they were from when i was just getting started...and i cant delete the shit, i got pics from a cfl grow, and some other embarrassing shit, so believe me, i am the LAST person to pass judgement!
TO be completley honest, i have been growing for aprx 2 years now, and I am just now getting to where i really am getting comfortable, and the current run is the first run i have been proud of. Most people think just anyone can grow pot, and yes, this is true. but it takes some good green thumbs to grow GOOD pot. enjoyable smoke. It is an ongoing process, and there is always more to learn. as long as each grow is better then the last, i know i am moving in the direction i want to be heading.

 

[smokadepep]

Thanks for the advice GTM. I read something about supplementing with pk 13/14 to create a better balance for flower. I just switched over to this line of nutes when I switched over to flower. Other than the canoeing and claw my plants don't have much sign of overdosing. A slight burn on the tips but I mean slight, I have had burnt tips before and this is barely noticeable.
It seems I caught it in time, as it is very few leaves out of 18 plants, and not very dark green. I just flushed my coco and it seems to be bouncing back. I will probably dial it back per a gallon to:
.5 ml calimagic
4ml ab
2ml pk 13/14
1ml floralicious plus
.6ml drip clean

I am still unsure whether this was caused by high nitrogen in the base nutrients or the lack of flushing before switching to flower. I will probably try and work my ab back up to 8ml a gallon if my lady shows she can handle it.

Thanks again for pointing me in the right direction.

 

[GreenThumbsMcgee]

anytime i can help amigo!
glad to hear its working out.

 

[dbmmmp]

Is biocanna the same thing just an organic version? also thinking about making the switch from TERRA to COCO. wondering about some pros and cons..? ive always used soil and loved it.

thanks

 

[Skunk Baxter]

@GreenThumbsMcgee -

OK, I finally uploaded some photos. They suck, because I can't get good light in there even at the start or end of the light period, so it's either shitty flash photos or badly miscolored HID light. I chose the latter; they may not be pretty, but you can at least make out the buddage.

The first 2 are of 1 of the sativa-dom colas that I have tied over; it's just over 16 inches long, and in the background, you can see the tops of the more civilized indica phenos, just sitting there being 4 feet tall like good little girls. The 3rd shot is the top bud of one of the indicas - I think it's going to be the mother I wind up with (you can see the tied-down cola of a sativa bent over behind her). I've already struck several clones off of her; she almost looks like her own distinct pheno. The pistils are a pure white, unlike the yellowish tint of all the 25 other plants, and she is just popping out fat buds all over. This one was taken 4 1/2 weeks in, and the top bud was 9 inches at that point. Her buds are fatter (at least, in comparison to the others), and much denser. She's also frosting up more than most of the others are at this point. I'm really happy with this plant - she should be a perfect mother for SOG grows.

Again, sorry about the picture quality. I will try to get better light in there and get some better shots.