The public face of gun control... Michael Moore

The public face of gun control...

desert dude said:

Yes, the declaration meant King George. The second amendment, about fifteen years after the revolutionary war meant our own home-grown tyrants.

You think the King's standing armies are there to prevent tyranny by the king? You really ought to be working for the Obama administration. I hear Jay Carney's position might soon be open. I am sure they would love to have a tall, handsome Jew with no sense of ethics and the ability to spin silk from sack cloth.

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Bucky isn't really a Jew.

NoDrama said:

Bucky isn't really a Jew.

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He's not? I would have sworn he said he was?

ginwilly said:

I was rambling a bit too last night when we started this convo. Just as our forefathers may not have envisioned the power of nuclear destruction, I haven't given thought to what may be possible 200 years from now. I would say you are spot on. We'll probably advance technology enough to where individuals could own this awesome power easily enough. Any alternative energy powerful and efficient enough to replace fossil fuels will be bombs in their own right.

Having said that, wouldn't it take an amendment to our 2nd to limit this to individuals? I would say the way the 2nd is written we really do have the legal right to own nukes and chems but there is such an obvious ethical argument against it that no one would challenge it. Amending the 2nd is going to be a fight our country eventually will have to tackle. I hope I'm long gone by then.

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I think that the big problem, the one nut I can't find the seam for cracking, is that the 2nd Amendment is the clearest demonstration that citizenship is for grownups.
Collectivism is for Toys-R-Us Kids. "We don't wanna grow up!" And the evergreen "MOMMMM!"
We're growing up technically much, much faster than we're growing up mentally, especially in groups.
I don't know many folks who disagree with the limitation on the 2nd that keeps children from having the unadorned right to keep&bear, with that not being really codified. A 16-year-old in the suburbs grows up differently from a 9-year-old in the mountains, who may have his very own trapline to manage, for which he ought to have a gun in hand or on hip.
I don't have an answer, and I sure don't have one for the day when we outgrow lawyer-mandated warning labels on pillowcases ... or bottles of Liquid Mutation. That'll be part of the outgrowing, i guess, and it ties into my theme last night of "we must, and I hope we do, learn to tinker with our very natures like '50s kids with surplus Jeeps". (But this restates the problem: such a technology will be as dangerous as it is enabling. Where lies the balance between capacity to do good and capacity to wipe out the local biosphere?) This vision is out of reach to those who've abdicated growing up in favor of a nanny society. cn

desert dude said:

He's not? I would have sworn he said he was?

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His wife is Jewish, he is just along for the ride, celebrates whatever her family tells him to celebrate. Bucky's Father-In-Law is the one who actually pays for everything, gave Bucky a Infinity car and provides easy and highly lucrative employment a few times a year when times get tough for them.

NoDrama said:

His wife is Jewish, he is just along for the ride, celebrates whatever her family tells him to celebrate. Bucky's Father-In-Law is the one who actually pays for everything, gave Bucky a Infinity car and provides easy and highly lucrative employment a few times a year when times get tough for them.

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Sweet deal! I wonder if the wife has a sister. With smaller hands.

desert dude said:

Sweet deal! I wonder if the wife has a sister. With smaller hands.

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You don't want any of that...

desert dude said:

Yes, the declaration meant King George. The second amendment, about fifteen years after the revolutionary war meant our own home-grown tyrants.

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the words are "to protect the security of a free state".

at the time it was written, their main worry was king george wanting to come back. although it was left intentionally vague.

NoDrama said:

His wife is Jewish, he is just along for the ride, celebrates whatever her family tells him to celebrate. Bucky's Father-In-Law is the one who actually pays for everything, gave Bucky a Infinity car and provides easy and highly lucrative employment a few times a year when times get tough for them.

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i did two weeks of work for that POS infiniti, and i did it as a favor. i would have preferred to keep my 88 toyota, but they wanted to keep that car in the family.

and the work i do for the family is pittance compared to the rest of what i do, just getting a feel for the family business.

at least i make my own way through life and don't wait for the federal government to send me welfare checks like you do.

UncleBuck said:

i did two weeks of work for that POS infiniti, and i did it as a favor. i would have preferred to keep my 88 toyota, but they wanted to keep that car in the family.

and the work i do for the family is pittance compared to the rest of what i do, just getting a feel for the family business.

at least i make my own way through life and don't wait for the federal government to send me welfare checks like you do.

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federal government or daddy-in-law.... Same thing really...

UncleBuck said:

first of all, any gun laws on the books not being enforced are due to the NRA lobby making it that way.

secondly, glad to see you brought up DUI laws. common sense DUI laws work. ask any arizonan about how DUI laws have escalated: ignition interlock devices, more jail time for offenders, more fines, more court mandated counseling, license suspension and revocation, the list goes on. the result? DUI fatalities are down big time.

that does tend to disprove the assertion that common sense laws "just don't work". hundreds and thousands of lives have been saved.

but Dog forbid we try to make it any tougher for a mass murderer to wipe out a classroom full of children.

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Murder is already against the law, why don't you explain how more gun laws will effect this? Everyone of us here is breaking federal law you imbecile quit making yourself look retarded spouting bad laws work.

nontheist said:

Murder is already against the law, why don't you explain how more gun laws will effect this? Everyone of us here is breaking federal law you imbecile quit making yourself look retarded spouting bad laws work.

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i wonder why a pound of tomatoes or a pound of peanuts costs so much less than a pound of cannabis. hmmmmmm....

and i doubt that you've ever grown anything but stupider.

UncleBuck said:

i did two weeks of work for that POS infiniti, and i did it as a favor. i would have preferred to keep my 88 toyota, but they wanted to keep that car in the family.

and the work i do for the family is pittance compared to the rest of what i do, just getting a feel for the family business.

at least i make my own way through life and don't wait for the federal government to send me welfare checks like you do.

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They made you get rid of your car? Did they hold you at gunpoint? Why trade one of the most reliable vehicles with good fuel mileage for a luxury wannabe cruiser that you don't like? Sounds like you aren't able to say no or even stand up for yourself because of the monetary power the father in law holds over you.

You nor your wife have never borrowed money from him have you?

desert dude said:

Sweet deal! I wonder if the wife has a sister. With smaller hands.

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And a less pronounced Adam's apple.

UncleBuck said:

secondly, glad to see you brought up DUI laws. common sense DUI laws work. ask any arizonan about how DUI laws have escalated: ignition interlock devices, more jail time for offenders, more fines, more court mandated counseling, license suspension and revocation, the list goes on.

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Actually, I'm glad you waded in with the DUI laws. You just lost the argument with one small paragraph.

You may notice EVERY escalation you listed is a punitive measure enforced against an individual AFTER the crime has been committed. Not one of those changes made it more difficult to purchase a drink or drive a car. You just made the NRA's argument for them, you clown. Tougher penalties on the ACTUAL CRIMINALS committing the crimes, not new laws directed at those who are drinking or driving responsibly. And look, by your own admission, it's working.

Talk about tying yourself into a pretzel. Bring me an adversary that is actually worthy of my time.

UncleBuck said:

i wonder why a pound of tomatoes or a pound of peanuts costs so much less than a pound of cannabis. hmmmmmm....

and i doubt that you've ever grown anything but stupider.

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So you support a bills that wouldn't help mass shooting and only inflate prices of legal preban arms to american people while giving the black market a bigger cheaper pool? Your fascist logic is impeccable douche.

MuyLocoNC said:

Actually, I'm glad you waded in with the DUI laws. You just lost the argument with one small paragraph.

You may notice EVERY escalation you listed is a punitive measure enforced against an individual AFTER the crime has been committed. Not one of those changes made it more difficult to purchase a drink or drive a car. You just made the NRA's argument for them, you clown. Tougher penalties on the ACTUAL CRIMINALS committing the crimes, not new laws directed at those who are drinking or driving responsibly. And look, by your own admission, it's working.

Talk about tying yourself into a pretzel. Bring me an adversary that is actually worthy of my time.

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Poor Uncle Buck, see what happens when you spend too much time watching MSNBC.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Blame Maddow for making you look stunningly clueless.

MuyLocoNC said:

Actually, I'm glad you waded in with the DUI laws. You just lost the argument with one small paragraph.

You may notice EVERY escalation you listed is a punitive measure enforced against an individual AFTER the crime has been committed. Not one of those changes made it more difficult to purchase a drink or drive a car. You just made the NRA's argument for them, you clown. Tougher penalties on the ACTUAL CRIMINALS committing the crimes, not new laws directed at those who are drinking or driving responsibly. And look, by your own admission, it's working.

Talk about tying yourself into a pretzel. Bring me an adversary that is actually worthy of my time.

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you might have a winning argument if it were literally impossible to drink and drive after doing it once.

unfortunately for you, that notion is about as realistic as that 10 point romney lead you imagined.

but good job on swinging and missing, that's about all that you're good for around here.

nontheist said:

So you support a bills that wouldn't help mass shooting and only inflate prices of legal preban arms to american people while giving the black market a bigger cheaper pool? Your fascist logic is impeccable douche.

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so prohibition makes the prohibited items cheaper?

please explain to me how that works while i smoke this gram of weed that costs as much as a pound of peanuts.

Wavels said:

Poor Uncle Buck, see what happens when you spend too much time watching MSNBC.
A mind is a terrible thing to waste.

Blame Maddow for making you look stunningly clueless.

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yeah, he really showed me with his argument that depended on the literal impossibility of repeat DUI offenses!