The Super Soil Under The Sun Thread (large scale)

[Endur0xX]

If I was to try to grow a big plant in the bush, Would it be possible to dig a 40 gallons hole and use the soil from the hole for the compost part of the mix? I would only have to add perlite, EWC and amendments ?

 

[nugbuckets]

If I was to try to grow a big plant in the bush, Would it be possible to dig a 40 gallons hole and use the soil from the hole for the compost part of the mix? I would only have to add perlite, EWC and amendments ?

native soil, is usually far from compost......if it was fertile, i would perhaps use a small % of it for the local biology, and trace minerals....and a splash of mo-jo.

 

[geekmike]

awesome info guys, I use my own mix here on the farm as well, amend my outdoor soil with cover crops.

I probably use more aged chicken compost than most, but I have a lot and know how to use it properly.



KK is a soil specialist!

 

[geekmike]

native soil, is usually far from compost......if it was fertile, i would perhaps use a small % of it for the local biology, and trace minerals....and a splash of mo-jo.

I use about 15-20% native soil in my greenhouse mix, but it all depends on the quality of the native soil too. Mine is great black soil. But some might be too much clay, silt, etc.

 

[nugbuckets]

i think u need 1 buffering soil and 1 hot soil. and that both should be interchangeable in/out. only chicken manure would make it an outside only mix. porosity maybe a consideration, but screw it whats a little more moisture retention indoors?

alright....i plan to recycle my used mix for my new base, it tests at 6.7 ph, 750 ppm..........i only plan to add ewc, and gypsum....then inoculate it, and let it cook for 2 months.....i do feel however that it needs a nitrogen source...i don't use blood...so was thinking of adding a little guano and alfalfa meal....what are your thoughts bros?....also, should i add some neem cake for insurance, cause it did sit outside for a spell?

 

[geekmike]

alright....i plan to recycle my used mix for my new base, it tests at 6.7 ph, 750 ppm..........i only plan to add ewc, and gypsum....then inoculate it, and let it cook for 2 months.....i do feel however that it needs a nitrogen source...i don't use blood...so was thinking of adding a little guano and alfalfa meal....what are your thoughts bros?....also, should i add some neem cake for insurance, cause it did sit outside for a spell?

I like to use alfalfa meal. it takes a bit longer to brake down than some stuff though, I let it sit for 90 days min.

I recently started doing a drench of hygrozyme and OregonyzmXL on a batch of my recycled stuff. seems to be working out. I also add Azomite, DL, ES & EWC to the mix.

This has been getting mixed into the top 12" of my GH planters at about a 50/50 ratio to my native/compost mix.

 

[geekmike]

Soil Pr0n!

 

[nugbuckets]

mornin geek......my DL has 3% Mg.....Calcium Mag carbonate......am debating on ES.....your garden soil looks alot like mine structure wise.

 

[geekmike]

I only use the ES in my GH soil, never took it outside.

We both are lucky fellas with soil like that. Black gold. That was a picture after this Springs 1st tilling.

 

[nugbuckets]

trying to figure out if i should go with both Gypsum and DL...gypsum is Ca Su Dihydrate 68%, Ca Su Dihydrate 86%, Ca? 20%, Su? 16%.......DL is CaMg carbonate 30%, and 3% Mg.....i have about 8 weeks to make this stuff....can you guys recommend a good way to replace my N.....which was on the low side to begin with with this soil (early fade).....thanks bros.
remember....this is just indo base.

 

[Endur0xX]

native soil, is usually far from compost......if it was fertile, i would perhaps use a small % of it for the local biology, and trace minerals....and a splash of mo-jo.

The reason why I am wanting to use so much of it (native soil, on cut blocks) is in case I would want to grow more than 1 plant and not having to bring so much soil up the hill.(potentially far...) I am trying to figure out what would be the cheapest easiest way to set it up. I understand that using a small amount of native soil would give better results, but I am looking more at the big picture, the time and money saved by using something like 70% native soil, 30% perlite and the amendments. Would it work? if you dont think so what would be the highest amount of native soil you would use in the mix?

thanks

 

[nugbuckets]

The reason why I am wanting to use so much of it (native soil, on cut blocks) is in case I would want to grow more than 1 plant and not having to bring so much soil up the hill.(potentially far...) I am trying to figure out what would be the cheapest easiest way to set it up. I understand that using a small amount of native soil would give better results, but I am looking more at the big picture, the time and money saved by using something like 70% native soil, 30% perlite and the amendments. Would it work? if you dont think so what would be the highest amount of native soil you would use in the mix?

thanks

that really depends on what your native soil looks like....if its black gold...thats one thing....if it is clay/sand/silt...thats a completly different story........would need more info.

 

[Endur0xX]

trying to figure out if i should go with both Gypsum and DL...gypsum is Ca Su Dihydrate 68%, Ca Su Dihydrate 86%, Ca? 20%, Su? 16%.......DL is CaMg carbonate 30%, and 3% Mg.....i have about 8 weeks to make this stuff....can you guys recommend a good way to replace my N.....which was on the low side to begin with with this soil (early fade).....thanks bros.
remember....this is just indo base.

I am just getting into all this, but I was reading this article from the smilinggardener and I thought it might help you, it might not but it s here:

Gypsum 22% Calcium and 17% SulfurGypsum is calcium sulfate. I’m not referring to drywall, which contains ingredients that are toxic to plants, nor the chemical version of calcium sulfate, which also shouldn’t be used. Gypsum is a sedimentary rock that is fairly common and is mined in many places. It’s in the same price range as calcitic lime.The sulfur is in the sulfate form with a molecule of 1 sulfur and 4 oxygens, readily available to plants. I use it for the sulfur when I need it. And I use it very often as a calcium source along with calcitic lime and soft rock phosphate. It helps bring more oxygen into an anaerobic soil, so it’s even used when calcium is adequate.Dolomite Lime – 22% Calcium, 12% Magnesium (Varies)I don’t know how dolomite lime has come to be used by so many gardeners. Maybe it’s just because the dolomite industry has done a wonderful marketing job. Maybe it’s because it was promoted by some of the early organic proponents who have had a big influence on the rest of us. It’s in the same price range as calcitic lime, but personally, I almost never use it.It’s approximately 22% calcium and 12% magnesium, a 1.8:1 calcium to magnesium ratio, whereas calcitic lime is approximately 30% calcium and 4% magnesium, a 7.5:1 ratio. (Actually, magnesium has 1.7 times more exchange capacity than an equal amount of calcium, so we use correspondingly less magnesium when we’re trying to raise magnesium levels. In a way, that makes the effective calcium to magnesium ratio of dolomite less than 1:1, and more like 4.5:1 for calcitic lime.)Too much magnesium in the soil can cause nitrogen to volatize into the air and soil to compact. Dolomite generally brings in too much magnesium for what we need. If you had a soil with extremely low magnesium in relation to calcium, such as a 12:1 calcium to magnesium ratio, then it might make sense to use dolomite.

 

[Endur0xX]

that really depends on what your native soil looks like....if its black gold...thats one thing....if it is clay/sand/silt...thats a completly different story........would need more info.

Ok I guess I ll have to go dig!! its on the west coast (around vancouver) and I would think the native soil is rich in organic matter, but you are right I am getting ahead of myself here I will have to go on a tour and dig some

 

[geekmike]

I also use powdered humic acid, kelp & fish bone meal in my GH mix.


I have been thinking gypsum too.


I think having multiple sources for N is important, the Alfalfa is a great one. I use chicken compost (4 months cured min.) mixed with native soil and let to rest. I use the chicken stuff bc I have so much of it really.

 

[geekmike]

Ok I guess I ll have to go dig!! its on the west coast (around vancouver) and I would think the native soil is rich in organic matter, but you are right I am getting ahead of myself here I will have to go on a tour and dig some

If you really want to learn more, send out a sample to get tested. I think my wife got ours done for less than $50 3 years ago.

 

[nugbuckets]

I am just getting into all this, but I was reading this article from the smilinggardener and I thought it might help you, it might not but it s here:

Gypsum 22% Calcium and 17% SulfurGypsum is calcium sulfate. I’m not referring to drywall, which contains ingredients that are toxic to plants, nor the chemical version of calcium sulfate, which also shouldn’t be used. Gypsum is a sedimentary rock that is fairly common and is mined in many places. It’s in the same price range as calcitic lime.The sulfur is in the sulfate form with a molecule of 1 sulfur and 4 oxygens, readily available to plants. I use it for the sulfur when I need it. And I use it very often as a calcium source along with calcitic lime and soft rock phosphate. It helps bring more oxygen into an anaerobic soil, so it’s even used when calcium is adequate.Dolomite Lime – 22% Calcium, 12% Magnesium (Varies)I don’t know how dolomite lime has come to be used by so many gardeners. Maybe it’s just because the dolomite industry has done a wonderful marketing job. Maybe it’s because it was promoted by some of the early organic proponents who have had a big influence on the rest of us. It’s in the same price range as calcitic lime, but personally, I almost never use it.It’s approximately 22% calcium and 12% magnesium, a 1.8:1 calcium to magnesium ratio, whereas calcitic lime is approximately 30% calcium and 4% magnesium, a 7.5:1 ratio. (Actually, magnesium has 1.7 times more exchange capacity than an equal amount of calcium, so we use correspondingly less magnesium when we’re trying to raise magnesium levels. In a way, that makes the effective calcium to magnesium ratio of dolomite less than 1:1, and more like 4.5:1 for calcitic lime.)Too much magnesium in the soil can cause nitrogen to volatize into the air and soil to compact. Dolomite generally brings in too much magnesium for what we need. If you had a soil with extremely low magnesium in relation to calcium, such as a 12:1 calcium to magnesium ratio, then it might make sense to use dolomite.

cool, thanks for this.........my DL is 30/3% which sounds much more usable......but that is why i am flirting with replacing a % of my DL with gypsum....waiting to hear from KK42.....

 

[kushking42]

i like the alfalfa/feather combo for N. crab meal is 4-3-0 and thats in my mix as well. i dont think u need more lime. used super soil has enough. u can add more later on down the road if needed. i would go with kmag and gypsum personally for my ca, s, and magnesium.

edit: mike, that is some nice looking native. that looks like its filled with castings. clay is the most nutrient rich soil in the world it just needs organic matter to bring it alive.but i would i never put native in a pot.

 

[Endur0xX]

Why? how is the soil where pot grow naturally? clay silt sand?

 

[kushking42]

native soil in a pot doesnt drain properly