Think ive been led astray

BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
@SupraSPL @captainmorgan

I remember with processors you could gain something like 10% more speed for every 5deg c
Have either of you seen any calculations for running COBs much cooler say with water and maybe over driving them more or just gaining more effiency?
 
SupraSPL

SupraSPL

Well-Known Member
To give it some perspective, these are the temp droop results for a CXB3590 4000K CD 36V mounted on a Rosewill RCX-Z1 (beefy CPU cooler with copper plate). The fan (92mm) was running slowly/silently at 5V (.5W)

.5A = 16.4W -> .09% temp droop
.7A= 23.4W -> .4% temp droop
1.4A= 49.6W -> .71% temp droop
2.57A= 98.6W -> 2.53% temp droop

We get similar results with good sized (~1LB) all-aluminum CPU coolers. So if you are running COBs in the 25-50W range and you have a decent heatsink setup, there is essentially nothing to be gained by spending more $ on cooling. For example if I increase fan speed to 9V, fan power consumption is 1.8W:

1.4A = 49.6W -> .69% temp droop
2.57 = 98.5W -> 2.42% temp droop

So in this example (and many others) increasing fan speed reduces system efficiency. The thing we can address to get significant gains: lenses/reflectors, use large COBs, source top bins, improve uniformity, run them softer.
 
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PerroVerde

PerroVerde

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
To give it some perspective, these are the temp droop results for a CXB3590 4000K CD 36V mounted on a Rosewill RCX-Z1 (beefy CPU cooler with copper plate). The fan (92mm) was running slowly/silently at 5V (.5W)

.5A = 16.4W -> .09% temp droop
.7A= 23.4W -> .4% temp droop
1.4A= 49.6W -> .71% temp droop
2.57A= 98.6W -> 2.53% temp droop

We get similar results with the all-aluminum CPU coolers. So if you are running COBs in the 25-50W range and you have a decent heatsink setup, there is essentially nothing to be gained by spending more $ on cooling. For example if I increase fan speed to 9V, fan power consumption is 1.8W:

1.4A = 49.6W -> .69% temp droop
2.57 = 98.5W -> 2.42% temp droop

So in this example (and many others) increasing fan speed reduces system efficiency. The places to get significant gains: addressing lenses/reflectors, use large COBs, source top bins, improve uniformity, run them softer.
Click to expand...
Great post and respect given, this is what I needed to see to move me into passive cooling and ordering from Heatsinks USA... :)
 
BM9AGS

BM9AGS

Well-Known Member
SupraSPL said:
To give it some perspective, these are the temp droop results for a CXB3590 4000K CD 36V mounted on a Rosewill RCX-Z1 (beefy CPU cooler with copper plate). The fan (92mm) was running slowly/silently at 5V (.5W)

.5A = 16.4W -> .09% temp droop
.7A= 23.4W -> .4% temp droop
1.4A= 49.6W -> .71% temp droop
2.57A= 98.6W -> 2.53% temp droop

We get similar results with good sized (~1LB) all-aluminum CPU coolers. So if you are running COBs in the 25-50W range and you have a decent heatsink setup, there is essentially nothing to be gained by spending more $ on cooling. For example if I increase fan speed to 9V, fan power consumption is 1.8W:

1.4A = 49.6W -> .69% temp droop
2.57 = 98.5W -> 2.42% temp droop

So in this example (and many others) increasing fan speed reduces system efficiency. The thing we can address to get significant gains: lenses/reflectors, use large COBs, source top bins, improve uniformity, run them softer.
Click to expand...
That's it! I'm gonna manufacture a Cree cob light run on Phase change cooling and over volt the cob 300% and sell it as THE GOD LIGHT Don't mind the 1500watts to power it.
My god light will be labeled as "1000watt HID is a thing of the 80s the god light is the sun crusher". Not only will you get 1 lb colas you'll also maintain a sweet tan year round!
 
M

MrEus1

Active Member
If I heard it right they guarantee the light will produce 90% of what it did on day one in 3 years. 5 years on the rest.
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
BM9AGS said:
They purposely cover up the actual light in the picture with a gay ass design. That's because they're hiding the facts.
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You are sounding like a crazed conspiracy theorist. I've flipped through their owners manual and they seem pretty forthcoming ie there wasn't any dishonest information.

captainmorgan said:
And unless I missed it on there site,they don't say which Cree LEDs they use or what bin. That can make a huge difference in performance and efficiency.
Click to expand...
captainmorgan said:
Just putting up facts and why would I want pay that much for a light that can be out performed by other lights that sell for less.
Click to expand...
Those are some profound "facts" being dropped around here. I'm pretty sure that I have already logged the performance and power consumption for this light. Should make calculating efficiency and cost per PAR WATT pretty easy. Then we can start comparing "commercial" (not DIY) fixtures and really seeing which product is the best value. Instead of postulating theories based on feelings and here say.

BTW @ Captain Morgan, would you mind sharing your results on these other fixtures that "outperform for less"?
Do you have any PAR readings or data on any of these "other" lights? Just curious.
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
A51 and PLC both put LED part numbers on their web site.
Click to expand...
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Which commercial grow light that is UL and ETL listed that can actually be used in a commercial setting, lists the exact BIN chip that they use?

Don't get me wrong, PLC is gonna be an awesome product once all safety cert's go through and its commercially viable.

Commercial grows cannot use any light fixtures that are not UL and ETL listed. The SK is both UL and ETL listed, putting it into a different product category than both Area-51 and PLC.

Apples to apples please.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
It seems like many have A51 blinders on.
There is a valid point about certs being brought up here.
If a light doesn't meet those requirements it can't be compared to it.
Doesn't inda-gro meet those certs as well?
 
KarmaPaymentPlan

KarmaPaymentPlan

Well-Known Member
Well it would seem that noncommercial growers get to use golden apples then lol and you can buy up all those sk lights but if i needed all the things you required wouldn't it be more cost effective with de
cdgmoney250 said:
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Which commercial grow light that is UL and ETL listed that can actually be used in a commercial setting, lists the exact BIN chip that they use?

Don't get me wrong, PLC is gonna be an awesome product once all safety cert's go through and its commercially viable.

Commercial grows cannot use any light fixtures that are not UL and ETL listed. The SK is both UL and ETL listed, putting it into a different product category than both Area-51 and PLC.

Apples to apples please.
Click to expand...
 
P

PurpleBuz

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
Sorry, I should have been more specific. Which commercial grow light that is UL and ETL listed that can actually be used in a commercial setting, lists the exact BIN chip that they use?

Don't get me wrong, PLC is gonna be an awesome product once all safety cert's go through and its commercially viable.

Commercial grows cannot use any light fixtures that are not UL and ETL listed. The SK is both UL and ETL listed, putting it into a different product category than both Area-51 and PLC.

Apples to apples please.
Click to expand...
we have already established that SK is most suitable to large warehouse builds as long as you have an extra 5 feet of height are able to set them up in a checkerboard pattern for full overlap.
It does not fit any other grow space. In such a space its not a bad light, but I would guess it could be more efficient with better bin leds.

The penalties of trying to run a SK in any other grow space is ridiculous. why are you pushing it ? while certifications are important for commercially insured grow spaces it is a lot less important for the majority of grows, considering its still forbidden by the US federal govt.

a high bay light is a high bay light is a HIGH BAY get it ? time to go get high down by the Bay :)
 
cdgmoney250

cdgmoney250

Well-Known Member
captainmorgan said:
Talks like a PR or sales person.
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Thanks! I'll credit education for that...
But I'm not. I'm an hourly paid sales associate at a grow store who basically answers "what's wrong with my plants" & "how do I cure PM" questions most of the day.

PurpleBuz said:
we have already established that SK is most suitable to large warehouse builds...

It does not fit any other grow space.

The penalties of trying to run a SK in any other grow space is ridiculous. why are you pushing it?
Click to expand...
The company does also have a 120 degree reflector that has a much shorter overall height which is supposed to be designed for low ceiling/tent style grows. This light may very well have better numbers across a 4x4 space at a closer distance than the 90 degree reflector. But I wouldn't be able to confirm that without access to one.

What are the penalties? Please explain.

I'm "pushing" SK because I think it's a good light for the price. Working at a grow store I get ALL kinds of customers. Some people grow in closets. Some people in larger tents. Some in basements. Some people in illicit warehouse grows. And some legitimate large and legal dispensary operations.
A lot of people are curious about the new LED technology because it's cooler and more efficient than traditional lighting for similar wattage.
I've done tons of personal research trying to find the best bang for your buck LED fixture, including asking folks around here for suggestions for a commercial fixture. I don't believe in Blurple lights and I think lights that cost over $2000 are ridiculous to replace HID. I can't really tell all my customers that what's on the shelves is shit and they are stupid if they don't DIY.

I personally feel that SK is a great light I could offer anybody who comes in my store interested in LED. The spectrum is amazing, and to me the performance is impressive for only 450w. But like I've asked many, many times now... Can anyone name a light that would outperform the SK that isn't double the cost ? That I can sell to any customer? If there is a better option, I would much rather stock that unit instead.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
cdgmoney250 said:
Nice. I haven't seen this light yet. Seems pretty legit in terms of build quality. Is there thread on that grow by chance?
Unfortunately the price of the largest unit is $950 for a 150w fixture. If the yield GPW is similar between the Zelion and the SK, the Osram would cost more that 2x the cost of the SK to achieve similar yields.

Is Apache Tech not a happening thing anymore?
Black Dogs are a complete ripoff but they are still really popular for some reason. What other up and coming LED companies (that are out and available for anyone to use) would give the SK a run for its money knowing what kind of numbers it puts out?

Actually the NEXT LIGHT LED puts out pretty similar numbers to SK (maybe even slightly better) and has a very similar price point using about an extra 100w. Is there a general consensus on this light? Is it another shitty product put out by a dishonest company or is it a legitimate lamp?
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cdgmoney250 said:
Thanks! I'll credit education for that...
But I'm not. I'm an hourly paid sales associate at a grow store who basically answers "what's wrong with my plants" & "how do I cure PM" questions most of the day.



The company does also have a 120 degree reflector that has a much shorter overall height which is supposed to be designed for low ceiling/tent style grows. This light may very well have better numbers across a 4x4 space at a closer distance than the 90 degree reflector. But I wouldn't be able to confirm that without access to one.

What are the penalties? Please explain.

I'm "pushing" SK because I think it's a good light for the price. Working at a grow store I get ALL kinds of customers. Some people grow in closets. Some people in larger tents. Some in basements. Some people in illicit warehouse grows. And some legitimate large and legal dispensary operations.
A lot of people are curious about the new LED technology because it's cooler and more efficient than traditional lighting for similar wattage.
I've done tons of personal research trying to find the best bang for your buck LED fixture, including asking folks around here for suggestions for a commercial fixture. I don't believe in Blurple lights and I think lights that cost over $2000 are ridiculous to replace HID. I can't really tell all my customers that what's on the shelves is shit and they are stupid if they don't DIY.

I personally feel that SK is a great light I could offer anybody who comes in my store interested in LED. The spectrum is amazing, and to me the performance is impressive for only 450w. But like I've asked many, many times now... Can anyone name a light that would outperform the SK that isn't double the cost ? That I can sell to any customer? If there is a better option, I would much rather stock that unit instead.
Click to expand...
Power Par / Apache Tech /BML / Osram to name a few.

Hell save your customers some money then and stock Chinese high bays. Cut out the middle man. Same damn light and they are UL ETL. Contact Topten led on alibaba I bet they will sell you the exact same light to the T for 1/2 or less.
 
Stephenj37826

Stephenj37826

Well-Known Member
Better yet buy there 500 watt xml2 light have them under drive it to around 400 watts and it will be less than 700 shipped and higher efficiency and light output than SK.
 
OneHitDone

OneHitDone

Well-Known Member
Since this seems to be the place where we are pulling SK's pants down - anyone have the skinny on there "propogator" series lights? Are they strong enough to veg under?
 
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