Think ive been led astray

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Yodaweed said:

Think you talking prices that we will never get a return on investment with, 100 lights at 2500$? That's 250,000 startup just on lights. And while I know LEDs last longer nothing is forever and those would need to be replaced. I know 2 places that use LEDs one has junk Chinese ones and used them for a grow then got rid of them , the other is growing a side room with helio spectra's they are called Pink House from Denver CO, but like I said its just a side room , a full setup is just out of the budget.

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Again you keep saying 2500$...STFU and read.
No one that owns an Apache has paid msrp...and won't.
Now let's talk about a full facility. You think they would be paying msrp??? You're fucking blinding your self. Willful ignorance is what that is called.

Now go to Colorado and talk to the power companies and get a rebate like all the profession, inspected, and licensed facilities do. Apaches get rebates.


So just because you can't figure out a way to make it happen...many are and are reaping the benefits. It's 40+% on lighting and 40+% on cooling no matter how you spin it. What that means to some is more than others. Also saveing on electrical modifications associated with MASS POWER DRAW. Something I can garner you have never had to deal with. The power these facilities draw is astronomical. It limits their production and bottom line directly.

Greengenes707 said:

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Again you keep saying 2500$...STFU and read.
No one that owns an Apache has paid msrp...and won't.
Now let's talk about a full facility. You think they would be paying msrp??? You're fucking blinding your self. Willful ignorance is what that is called.

Now go to Colorado and talk to the power companies and get a rebate like all the profession, inspected, and licensed facilities do.


So just because you can't figure out a way to make it happen...many are and are reaping the benefits. It's 40+% on lighting and 40+% on cooling. And saves in electrical modifications associated with MASS POWER DRAW. Something I can garner you have never had to deal with. The power these facilities draw is astronomical. It limits their production and bottom line directly.

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I'm I am so off than why do no companies do this? Please explain further why.

Yodaweed said:

I'm I am so off than why do no companies do this? Please explain further why.

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before you keep running your fingers maybe you should do some fact checking what GG said is no secret

Yodaweed said:

Think you talking prices that we will never get a return on investment with, 100 lights at 2500$? That's 250,000 startup just on lights. And while I know LEDs last longer nothing is forever and those would need to be replaced. I know 2 places that use LEDs one has junk Chinese ones and used them for a grow then got rid of them , the other is growing a side room with helio spectra's they are called Pink House from Denver CO, but like I said its just a side room , a full setup is just out of the budget.

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Lol do you think if a commercial groe was to buy 100 you think they would have to pay msrp?????? Really. I'd say apache would let them have them for 1700 or less. Like I said have you ever checked on AC build out cost in Colorodo lol. It's fucking crazy. If they figure out it's a grow bammm. So like I said all things considered. Also you are talking about 1 particular light. PLCs lights aren't 2500 bucks either. In that instance I would purchase 1 PLC 300 per 3x3 area. Build out would be 50% greater on light cost but 50% saving on AC build plus wiring build out savings. It's not cut and dry like you try to portray.

Yodaweed said:

I'm I am so off than why do no companies do this? Please explain further why.

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Simple because if you have a third party local hydro store you have to leave room for them........

For a store 30-40% markup is the usual.

Yodaweed said:

I'm I am so off than why do no companies do this? Please explain further why.

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KarmaPaymentPlan said:

before you keep running your fingers maybe you should do some fact checking what GG said is no secret

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I never disagreed that LEDs draw less wattage or produce less heat, what I am saying is the initial cost will never be recovered. Why do you think no dispensaries use LEDs? The reason is because they are not commercially viable, throw all the poop you want at me but I speak words of truth.

Holy shit. Just clueless.

Yodaweed said:

I never disagreed that LEDs draw less wattage or produce less heat, what I am saying is the initial cost will never be recovered. Why do you think no dispensaries use LEDs? The reason is because they are not commercially viable, throw all the poop you want at me but I speak words of truth.

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More like: throw all the truth you want at me I speak words of poop.

Yodaweed said:

I never disagreed that LEDs draw less wattage or produce less heat, what I am saying is the initial cost will never be recovered. Why do you think no dispensaries use LEDs? The reason is because they are not commercially viable, throw all the poop you want at me but I speak words of truth.

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i know of 2 recreational growers that have an led room right here in Washington state and the power company and I'm pretty sure the state give them incentives for it and for some reason weed isn't that cheap its super easy to come out ahead as long as your not screwing everything up constantly with your operation so pretty much poop

Greengenes707 said:

.

Again you keep saying 2500$...STFU and read.
No one that owns an Apache has paid msrp...and won't.
Now let's talk about a full facility. You think they would be paying msrp??? You're fucking blinding your self. Willful ignorance is what that is called.

Now go to Colorado and talk to the power companies and get a rebate like all the profession, inspected, and licensed facilities do. Apaches get rebates.


So just because you can't figure out a way to make it happen...many are and are reaping the benefits. It's 40+% on lighting and 40+% on cooling no matter how you spin it. What that means to some is more than others. Also saveing on electrical modifications associated with MASS POWER DRAW. Something I can garner you have never had to deal with. The power these facilities draw is astronomical. It limits their production and bottom line directly.

Click to expand...

You are so right it hurts.
Power draw is a huge issue, I don't have any experience with it in relation to growing, but I've done sound reinforcement design for systems ranging from 20,000 to 100,000 watts, and you have to have some very special equipment to do shit like that. Line conditioners, voltage regulators, not to mention the existing electrical infrastructure to support it, high current (300A) service circuits, probably three-phase power etc. Been so long I forgot half of it. Rock 'n' Roll lifestyle for the fail.

Michael Huntherz said:

Rock 'n' Roll lifestyle for the fail.

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Mmmm Cake.

Some People Like Cake However I Perfer Titties And Beer

Looks like SK updated their website and added all the specs anyone could really ever ask for. Including chips. Couldn't find the BINs though, damn it.
This was a luminaire test done by Cree.

https://www.spectrumkingled.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/CREE_TEMPO-Report_2015-08-18.pdf

Greengenes707 said:

Apache at600 vs SK 400

Apache's don't cost $2400...who pays full msrp for anything in life.

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If not SRP, than how do we compare prices of products?
I might get a discount of 35% at my local store because maybe I'm buddies with the manager or I have a decent account. My price will not be a fair comparison to a random Joe off the street who just might pay full retail for the exact same product (plenty of people do).

So how do we get apples to apples? Retail price.

Also, if a customer is making a bulk purchase (ie 50+ lights), then they are more than likely going to receive bulk pricing. Typically a couple points above whole sale. This is usually accross the board regardless of the company or product being sold.

Yodaweed said:

I'm I am so off than why do no companies do this? Please explain further why.

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To light up a sizable commercial grow adequately for commercial production with LED fixtures that are currently on the market, you are talking a pretty big blow to the piggy bank for startup. Much larger operations usually have larger investors, and understand ROI will be well worth the coin.
This is not really an option for smaller size independent operations, where the same yield or better can achieved with HID for much, much less upfront. But most of them still long for cooler, more efficient lights.

Yodaweed said:

I never disagreed that LEDs draw less wattage or produce less heat, what I am saying is the initial cost will never be recovered. Why do you think no dispensaries use LEDs?

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The Larger the grow, the more important efficiency is. If they can afford it, ROI will generally be 2 years or less to go LED, depending on the size of the grow. Just calculate the difference in KW between HID and equal coverage of LED. Now multiply that difference over the number of hours being ran for one full year. It makes the initial investment pale in comparison to the annual energy savings (let alone rebates) and bulb changes no longer necessary.
The relativity of cannabis value and electricity cost is not linear.

cdgmoney250 said:

Looks like SK updated their website and added all the specs anyone could really ever ask for. Including chips. Couldn't find the BINs though, damn it.
This was a luminaire test done by Cree.

https://www.spectrumkingled.com/wp-content/uploads/2015/09/CREE_TEMPO-Report_2015-08-18.pdf

Click to expand...

Fuck the bins, this is the best info you could hope for.
Overall efficiency is 27.6% which is probably due to the combination of high temp - Tj over 100°C - and quite old technology. These values are not bad but hardly an improvement over 1000W DE HPS. There are certainly better fixtures.
This TEMPO testing is awesome it has everything. More of those!

edit: After seeing these results I'm convinced that the XB-D version is bound to suck.
e2: Most probably H2 bin MK-Rs are used.

alesh said:

Fuck the bins, this is the best info you could hope for.
Overall efficiency is 27.6% which is probably due to the combination of high temp - Tj over 100°C - and quite old technology. These values are not bad but hardly an improvement over 1000W DE HPS. There are certainly better fixtures.
This TEMPO testing is awesome it has everything. More of those!

edit: After seeing these results I'm convinced that the XB-D version is bound to suck.
e2: Most probably H2 bin MK-Rs are used.

Click to expand...

Wonder what a test like that costs? I'd love to get my lights tested.

alesh said:

Fuck the bins, this is the best info you could hope for.
Overall efficiency is 27.6% which is probably due to the combination of high temp - Tj over 100°C - and quite old technology. These values are not bad but hardly an improvement over 1000W DE HPS. There are certainly better fixtures.
This TEMPO testing is awesome it has everything. More of those!

edit: After seeing these results I'm convinced that the XB-D version is bound to suck.
e2: Most probably H2 bin MK-Rs are used.

Click to expand...

Just think they got 1.8 g/w with xbd one. Gawd I bet my fixture will hit 4 g/w wooohoooo. I think I would retract that ridiculous claim video as fast as I could. At least they manned up and finally showed some facts.

Stephenj37826 said:

Wonder what a test like that costs? I'd love to get my lights tested.

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I can imagine it's not cheap
It's great that they're revealing facts but either every one of the RIU COB growers are complete amateurs who can't grow or the video is somehow not entirely true.
To be more precise, the 27.5% efficiency is with drivers and optics included. The LEDs themselves are 32.3% efficient and there are 9% driver losses and 6% optical losses.

alesh said:

I can imagine it's not cheap
It's great that they're revealing facts but either every one of the RIU COB growers are complete amateurs who can't grow or the video is somehow not entirely true.
To be more precise, the 27.5% efficiency is with drivers and optics included. The LEDs themselves are 32.3% efficient and there are 9% driver losses and 6% optical losses.

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I was guessing 35% on the LEDs but was going by a lower Tj temp. If a fan was pointed at the heat sink I think it would improve a decent amount.