Thinking of a new light ..

And now comes the hard ...it ...

The 'steel-work' part ...
Up till now was soft aluminium involved (thick at cases ,but soft ....)
Now ,next 'operations' have to be made at (hard ) steel !


The bottom panel and the top lid of the case .....
Grills 've been epoxied rock hard ..(With a very good 2-part epoxy made locally ,for marine use .Hard as steel )

At the bottom panel 2x rectangular openings have to be cut out ( 200 x 165mm ,+5mm to fit the rivets at the sides of the'angles' ),in order for the heatsinks to 'fit' and stick out of the case ...
Two alum Π profile bars are going to be riveted for added support and isolation of the "freezers" air chamber ...
The holes for wiring ( 4x led drivers wire pairs & 4x sensor wire pairs )

One the top lid ,4x openings have to be cut out for the fans exaust .
And 16x holes to be drilled, for attaching the fans ..


And then ....
Sanding ....
Rust -proofing ....
Painting ...

And still ..Far from being ready/complete ...
( A lot of work ....But hey ...It's not something you'd expect being build massively in a factory,anyway ...)

tenthirty said:

3x3 x50w a sq ft= 450watts. That is the rule of thumb for HPS.
Hmmmmmm.

4 ea CXA3070 3000K Z4 @ 1.4A = 52W @ 39.3% efficient........
That would be 208 watts to cover the same 9 sq ft.
23.1 watts per sq ft.
Comments???

I sure as hell hope this works!!!!!!

At 40w sq ft of combined led and cmh, I get 50.5 grams per sq ft.
I would love to cut my power bill roughly in half!!!!!!!

Click to expand...

@1950mA ...
And what ?
Efficiency then is ~30% ?
Even better !
No excuse ...
Same efficiency ...
300 Watts ,200 Watts heat .
100 Watts of light vs the 120 Watts of a brand new GreenPower 400 Watt (<= the(ir) King ! ) ..

Morituri te salutant !

(Those 20 Watts ...Quality of light (spectrum,but goes for final product also ! )will make up for 'em ...
More than that ,I surely do hope so !
I 've goddess 'Photomorphogenesis' by my side,you see ! )

stardustsailor said:

I should 've expected that one comin' ...
Well .Hmm ...
Let me put it this way :
This is not a led light you see being builded ..
No !
It is a HID light !
(High Intensity Diode )
Yes ! Do not laugh! I'm serious !

It is the HID of 'new era ' in grow lights ..
It is the High Intensity Discharge killer ...
The new 'species' in single-point horticultural illumination ...
It does not use multiple leds ...It uses kinda a huge- big-heavy - aluminium 'mega' 'diode'
,made out of >5kgs of aluminium for it's case and of 4x CXA3070 Chips ...
(Now ...THESE chips use leds ....Not the light ! )


So ...It can't compare with rest/any of the led lights 'cause ain't one ( Guh ..) ...
It can compare with it's 'kind' only ...

The ones yelling at me ,-every time -when I enter a grow tent's/ room's arena :

'Ave Stardust ! Morituri te salutant ! '

My light is meant to 'slaughter' ALL ghosts from past ...
ESPECIALLY The ones with the amber halo...
With no 'poor'excuse ,like 'light /power spread' ...
" With it's dick covered with sand',as we say in my homeland ..
That's how It's going to deal with 'em !

Ha-ha-ha-ha-


I'm nuts ..
That's it !
I love the led weed !

Click to expand...

It's not like you to dance around a perfectly reasonable question

You probably don't have such a light meter.

That's cool, but say "I don't know"

FWIW, I was onto COBs before you embraced them

I was actually surprised that you jumped on board so fast, but then again, they are game changers

Still, IMHO, 4 X 25 spread out will provide a more homogenous coverage, and probably better perimeter umols

HID! I like it

PetFlora said:

It's not like you to dance around a perfectly reasonable question

You probably don't have such a light meter.

That's cool, but say "I don't know"

FWIW, I was onto COBs before you embraced them

I was actually surprised that you jumped on board so fast, but then again, they are game changers

Still, IMHO, 4 X 25 spread out will provide a more homogenous coverage, and probably better perimeter umols

HID! I like it

Click to expand...

My last test at 25w a sq foot was less than stellar. 35w a sq foot was ok. Right now 40w a sq foot (CMH and LED) is doing better that any HPS has ever done for me by double!
At 50 watts a chip, I also think that spreading them out as much as possible would be the hot ticket.
Parts are on order for 2 COB's, so we're about to see exactly what these things are capable of.

Live long and prosper SDS and Pet

PetFlora said:

It's not like you to dance around a perfectly reasonable question

You probably don't have such a light meter.

That's cool, but say "I don't know"

FWIW, I was onto COBs before you embraced them

I was actually surprised that you jumped on board so fast, but then again, they are game changers

Still, IMHO, 4 X 25 spread out will provide a more homogenous coverage, and probably better perimeter umols

HID! I like it

Click to expand...

Light meter ?
Sorry,I must 've missed /skipped that part by mistake ...
4 x25 ?

tenthirty said:

My last test at 25w a sq foot was less than stellar. 35w a sq foot was ok. Right now 40w a sq foot (CMH and LED) is doing better that any HPS has ever done for me by double!
At 50 watts a chip, I also think that spreading them out as much as possible would be the hot ticket.
Parts are on order for 2 COB's, so we're about to see exactly what these things are capable of.

Live long and prosper SDS and Pet

Click to expand...

75 Watts / chip ....

I'll be burning them at 50 watts / chip more or less, on CPU heatsinks.......I'm cheap and lazy!!

CXA3070 3000K Z4 @ 1925mA = 75W @ 34.5% efficient.
So 300W dissipation, 103.5 PAR Watts (ppf)

Versus HPS 400W dissipation @34% efficient
136 PAR Watts (ppf)

Once you factor in the HPS reflector losses, glass shield losses, lumen depreciation, poor spectrum and uneven spread, the LED PAR Watts will get you more bud.

The build is coming along great SDS!

Lots of cob trailblazers, I love it!

Chinese gon' be scratching their head trying to figure out what to do with all their inventory.

There are times ,when a man with a dremel in his hand must hold back and think twice .....

" Am I doing the right thing ? "
"Some things can not be undone" ..
things like that ....

Or ...
Like those ,to follow ...


All of a sudden I do not like my plan ....

Each inlet has a surface of 30x 160/2 = 2400 mm^2

four inlets =9600mm^2 ..96 cm^2 ..

The two openings on the restrainer lid have in total at least twice if not 3x that surface ....

four exaust openings on the case's lid is 8x- 12x the total surface of the four inlets ...

96cm² = 0.10333ft²...
4 fans will be sucking with >430 CFM...
from a total area of 0.10333ft²...

Something's not right ....

Waste of energy ...Too much noise at the narrow fin inlets ,as there the pressure will reach it's highest value..
There's the botlle-neck ...Those 96 cm^2 ...

So ..


A second option ......
Two singles (isolated between them )-hold tight folks,now - will work in series ,with two other ,parallel in between them !!


Pros:

-The two singles will ensure a more 'evenly divided " air flow to the heatsinks..
~100 CF @12 V per 48cm² total inlet area .

-Those two in series with the other two ,will increase the negative pressure overall ,relieving local high-pressure from inlets ,thus keeping the noise down ...

-The parallel operation of the latter pair ,ensures high flow rates

-perpedicular placing per pair ,with 'turbulise' the air -flow in the inner upper part of case ,assisting
the cooling of the 4x led drivers and the CV psu ....

Cons:

-The parallel pair has to be fitted outside the case's top lid ...
There's not enough room ,for all the fans inside the case ...




The isolated pair of fans will be fitted on top of the constrainer lid of the 'freezer thing' ...
Those are literally ,inside the case ...
Sucking air from ,the bottom of the case ,at fin-openings sides and blowing it inside the upper part of the case ,where the rest of the electronics are placed (or going to be,anyway ) ...Each from 48 cm^2 total inlet area ..
~110 cm^2 is each fan opening exaust ,at the restrainer lid ...More than double ..
Exaust/inlet ratio = ~ 2

These now ,are assisted ,in series, by the other pair (perpendicularly placed ,outside the case's top lid ,unfortunately .)
..The pressure is increased inside the case and relieved from inlets (like on previous 'design' ) ...

The latter pair(the ones with the grills on top ) is operating parallel ,for increased air-flow ,from inside the case to ambient environment ...

The perpendicular placement , will cause turbulence,that in other case might cause noise/airflow issues ,but in this case will assist into cooling the active electronics,placed on the upper inside chamber ...
Sound suppressing foam,may be installed to that compartment also...



The CV psu ,fits EXACTLY between the fans..
The openings are there ..
It's like it is calling me ....

"I'm the right thing ,for you to doooooooo...."

2x fans inside the case ,2x fans on top lid of the case (outside/perpendicilar to the other fan pair )
For low noise,even pressure ,high flow rates ...
And of course ,state-of-the-art fan/heatsink cooling ...

Guys...
Any ideas,thoughts,comments,jokes or something about the concept here ?
Any help / advice/suggestion /idea will be(deeply) appreciated ....

Once you get past separation anxiety, I still think 4 HIDs @ 25% wattage per would make for max umoles across the entire 3m^

Could also help with heat dissipation

But i could be wrong

Simply put ....
Before ,inlet to exaust path :

( 4x24cm^2 ) 96cm^2 => (2x 110cm^2 ) 220cm^2 => => ( 4x 110cm^2) 440cm^2
High pressure=>Moderate => Low /// Low flow rate = >Moderate=>High

Present,inlet to exaust path :

(2x 2x24cm^2 ) 2x48cm^2 / 96cm^2 =>(2x 110cm^2 ) 220cm^2 =>(2x 110cm^2 ) 220cm^2 =
Moderate pressure=>Low => Low /// Moderate flow rate =>High =>High


(Restraining openings area : fin inlets => upper inner case chamber => exaust to ambient )

PetFlora said:

Once you get past separation anxiety, I still think 4 HIDs @ 25% wattage per would make for max umoles across the entire 3m^

Could also help with heat dissipation

But i could be wrong

Click to expand...

Very difficult to build ...
I think ,at least ...
4x ...?
4x the parts? (or most of the parts,if not all ..)

PetFlora said:

Basically 4 heat sinks + 4 HID (each 1/4 the watts) + 4 drivers

Think 4 Astir panels, but with HIDs

Click to expand...

That would be basically my plan.

PetFlora said:

Basically 4 heat sinks + 4 HID (each 1/4 the watts) + 4 drivers

Like the Astir panels, but with HIDs

Click to expand...

Astir's are 'naked',like the Ducati Monster ...
I'm past that 'era' ..
Both regarding bikes and builds !


Now,I like(love) 'sophisticated' metal cases ,to enclose all the sh...the ,you know ,things ...
So ...4x case,pots,etc ?
Ah,Pet ..
I truly love the idea ..
But ,this design is made to make some local Sodium -lovers around here ( at my homeland ,but not only I guess ),
to shut the F. up ,once and for all ...

So,I've told you ...
This build is outside of what is considered 'efficient' utilisation of leds ..
And spreading the light/power ,I think ,if I 'm not mistaken ,that I was one of the first to support the whole thing ..
(and still support it ,'cause it's the d...aaaa...mmmnnn truth ! Period ! )

But this built is ....
A raw power ,muscly , LED -wolverine-zombie-vampire hybrid ...

Yes a single light source ...In a single massive case ...

Specially designed to unleash sunshine to a 3x3 area ...
And beat the s..iiiit ..out of any melting Sodium 'heater' ...
That's all ...

Forget leds ,here ...
It's High intensity Diode ..
One diode ...
A big one ...
Almost 10 kgs heavy ...

PetFlora said:

Check this 5 cob DIY

http://howtogrowmarijuana.com/DIY-LED-grow-light

Scroll well down the page for photos

Click to expand...

Won't survive for more than 5-6 years ....
It depends on how hard they will be driven ...

Do not forget !
Those PC- things of heatsinks ..
They are meant to provide cooling to a chip that it does not operate constantly in high power..
( a big difference between a Core i7 and a CXA3070 ..... )

And many more ,that I do not have the courage to go into details...
' PC fan coolers ' ,should stay in the pc world ....

There are some specialised heatsink/fan combos that resemble those pc coolers ...

http://www.sunon.com/index2/pro.php?c1=14
http://www.sunon.com/index2/uFiles/file/03_products/04-Cooling Module/LED flyer_ASIA(EN)_P1.pdf


But they do have other 'standards' ..Specially for leds ...
(And still none makes it <60°C ..Let alone the <50°C mark ,that I'm after ....@Ta=35°C )
Operating under the need of loads of constant heat dissipation ...
Not meant for the average CPU ,which occasionally may seriously heat up ...
The CPU's can be sufficient cooled with those ...CPU coolers ...
Leds won't ...

Will you be using cob reflectors sds?? or are you ok with the 115? degree primary beam angle??

If your encasing the heatsinks why not "pull" the air from one side to the other like apache?? I forget who posted an interesting pdf from bridgelux that said it was the most efficient way of cooling an enclosed heatsink.....

good luck and be safe

PSUAGRO. said:

Will you be using cob reflectors sds?? or are you ok with the 115? degree primary beam angle??

If your encasing the heatsinks why not "pull" the air from one side to the other like apache?? I forget who posted an interesting pdf from bridgelux that said it was the most efficient way of cooling an enclosed heatsink.....

good luck and be safe

Click to expand...

Yes ,it is trully the most efficient way ,as the air covers the whole distance of the fins /fin channel length..
Still ..There are considerations :

- The ambient space is supposed to have it's walls that far away ,that it won't change ,the inlet/outlet airflow/pressure ratio...
A grow tent/ room filled/crowed with plants ,ain't such case ...

-The cooling of the heatsink is uneven ....Heatsink tends to be cooler near the fan(s) and become hotter far from fans ...
( And that in best case of linear and planar air flow ..)
So chips ,or Cobs ,or even part of the cobs will have uneven cooling ...

-Two opposing forces to beat ,that make air flowing kinda weird,to deal and model/estimate ....
Cool air cripples ,Warm air flyes ...
The air enters cool and heavy (higher density ) thus remaining near the heatsink/fin(s) base ..
As it moves along the fins ,it heats up and main air flow rises at a higher level, away from base of heatsink /fins....
If the heatsink is short / and/or another fan is used then the outlet part of the heatsink is going to be considerably warmer that the inlet part ....

If the heatsink is long the air will cool ,drop to base ,re -heat and so on ....

There's not such thing as 'perfect' or 'best' ...
There are always misfits/exceptions/rebels/etc/etc ....

What happens if the inlet side sucks up a large ,nice leaf ?
And it remains stucked on the inlets grills ?
Posing a serious obstacle to air flow and a threat to all the rest depending upon it...
There goes one fins channel / air stream / led series/ cob ....

Furthermore,that's why I'm using the restrainer lid ....
To 'force/guide/constrain vertically ' the air to travel -horizontally -through fin channels-as much as possible- firstly before being exausted ...



115° emission angle Warm White led ,is God's answer to my prayers..
God speaks to me ,through Cree ,at the moment ...
Amen!
No need for any lenses ....
If I'll ever move to a house with > 5 meters height ,floor to ceiling ,
I might start considering 80°-90° ones,for the new grow-room there ..
For now ..115° ...Can't get better !