Today's republicans are america's enemy within

Well seeing as how I'm being forced involuntarily to acquire this useless fucking Health Insurance (which for the infiniteth time is not Health Care) under threat of having my property expropriated (through government force) then I would say that it most assuredly is Socialized Health Care.

While it may not match the forms taken elsewhere it is still Socialized Health Care.

Does it still maintain a charade of free markets, yes, but is it truly free market, no, because it is clear that insurance companies will not be allowed to offer a variety of plans but will instead be obligated (under threat of government coercion) to provide the same plan (set by government) to everyone and will be unable to make their own prices.

If you are so imbecilic as to maintain with the most audacious level of deceit imaginable that this is not a Socialized Health Care System, then I advise you to resign your professorship and blow your fucking brains out, because you're not intelligent enough to be anywhere near a class room.

I think I'll decline your sage advice here and go a different route.

I will acquiesce to a match of semantics, however, if you wish. I'm disinclined to engage in a name-calling match, as your apt to do, but actual argument over what socialism entails - sure!
 
Does it still maintain a charade of free markets, yes, but is it truly free market, no, because it is clear that insurance companies will not be allowed to offer a variety of plans but will instead be obligated (under threat of government coercion) to provide the same plan (set by government) to everyone and will be unable to make their own prices.

First that is not in the bill, in fact it says that they are able to provide their own plans.

And second you have nothing but a guess that they will eventually be threatened under government coercion to provide the same plan.

When infact it says that anyone with a plan today will be able to keep it as it is and be able to bring in their family under it even in the future. Which directly goes against what your implying.
 
Is the US Post Office socialism also? Fedex and UPS seem to do fine competing against the USPS to all those that are so concerned about protecting the bottom line of insurance companies.
 
First that is not in the bill, in fact it says that they are able to provide their own plans.

And second you have nothing but a guess that they will eventually be threatened under government coercion to provide the same plan.

When infact it says that anyone with a plan today will be able to keep it as it is and be able to bring in their family under it even in the future. Which directly goes against what your implying.

Based on the level of stupidity that you have consistently displayed I'm actually amazed that you can read the bill let alone comprehend it. Yes, the exact point that I am mentioning is in the bill. Are you so inable of comprehending the written word that you were not able to see the exact section where the bill mentions that all insurance plans that are offered will have to at least match minimum requirements mandated by the Federal Government?

Don't answer that, I don't need an answer from you to know what I read is in the bill. No more than a breastplate needs nipples to still function as a breastplate.

As far as your attacks in another post on the theories of deflation and inflation that I put forth. You demonstrate your lack of understanding of economics everytime you open your mouth. You're assuming that your drastically simplified hundred level classes contain all the answers, when in fact they do not. You are an imbecile and a simpleton who's greatest accomplishment in life was actually being able to wipe his own ass.
 
First that is not in the bill, in fact it says that they are able to provide their own plans.

And second you have nothing but a guess that they will eventually be threatened under government coercion to provide the same plan.

When infact it says that anyone with a plan today will be able to keep it as it is and be able to bring in their family under it even in the future. Which directly goes against what your implying.

the gov will run its competition out of business through price fixing

as no company will be able to bring a lawsuit against them for doing so....

thats in the bill as well
 
Based on the level of stupidity that you have consistently displayed I'm actually amazed that you can read the bill let alone comprehend it. Yes, the exact point that I am mentioning is in the bill. Are you so inable of comprehending the written word that you were not able to see the exact section where the bill mentions that all insurance plans that are offered will have to at least match minimum requirements mandated by the Federal Government?

Don't answer that, I don't need an answer from you to know what I read is in the bill. No more than a breastplate needs nipples to still function as a breastplate.

As far as your attacks in another post on the theories of deflation and inflation that I put forth. You demonstrate your lack of understanding of economics everytime you open your mouth. You're assuming that your drastically simplified hundred level classes contain all the answers, when in fact they do not. You are an imbecile and a simpleton who's greatest accomplishment in life was actually being able to wipe his own ass.

It is funny how actual information that comes from things like math is so hard for you to comprehend.

Your Austrian economics has moved from being actually something that is helpful to a seudo political garbage party. And the fact is you don't even really understand what they say. And to attack the actual economics because you cannot understand what they are so you dismiss them is about as stupid as you thinking that you are never going to need affordable health care, which is obtained through insurance.

You think that your above everyone, but in reality you don't have a clue. Everything that you know is formulated from a biased point of view, and hence due to that it is biased.

You really should try to move out of the box that you have placed yourself into.

And I think that your greatest accomplishment was making your own nutball conspiracy theory website.


Does it still maintain a charade of free markets, yes, but is it truly free market, no, because it is clear that insurance companies will not be allowed to offer a variety of plans but will instead be obligated (under threat of government coercion) to provide the same plan (set by government) to everyone and will be unable to make their own prices.

(1) IN GENERAL- Individual health insurance coverage that is not grandfathered health insurance coverage under subsection (a) may only be offered on or after the first day of Y1 as an Exchange-participating health benefits plan.
(2) SEPARATE, EXCEPTED COVERAGE PERMITTED- Excepted benefits (as defined in section 2791(c) of the Public Health Service Act) are not included within the definition of health insurance coverage. Nothing in paragraph (1) shall prevent the offering, other than through the Health Insurance Exchange, of excepted benefits so long as it is offered and priced separately from health insurance coverage.

If it is priced separately they can provide anything they like. They can make their own prices, but they will be forced not to cut people if they get sick.

the gov will run its competition out of business through price fixing

as no company will be able to bring a lawsuit against them for doing so....

thats in the bill as well

This is possible. But even in England (which we are not creating) there is a lot of private insurance and hospitals. The insurance companies just need to start figuring out new ways to save money that does not include screwing people when they get sick.



Again I will say it, if the insurance companies had not been greedy over the last 3 decades and figured a way to insure everyone we would not need this plan. They could even today wake up and say we will take care of this and get the government out of it if they promised to get everyone covered and not deny care that is needed.

But they refused to do it, so I do think it is up to us to fill that void that is 1/8th of Americans.
 
for some reason thats funny to me

No your right I should have put "England's system" it was right as I was typing it I realized that someone would/may jump on the insurance plan being the socialized system that England uses, and felt like I should cover my ass.
 
name 3 campaign promises that he actually kept

24 trillion dollars has been handed over...

can you comprehend how much money that is?

thats double the nations GDP

the budget the nation set aside foe 2009 was 100% gone by june



and i cant believe your still hooked on the left right paradigm 7

you want campaign promises? i believe bush promised to keep us safe. how'd that turn out?

8 months in and you're already expecting campaign promises to be fulfilled then how the fuck could you vote republican? at 9 months in bush had already blown that one.
 
It is funny how actual information that comes from things like math is so hard for you to comprehend.

Your Austrian economics has moved from being actually something that is helpful to a seudo political garbage party. And the fact is you don't even really understand what they say. And to attack the actual economics because you cannot understand what they are so you dismiss them is about as stupid as you thinking that you are never going to need affordable health care, which is obtained through insurance.

You think that your above everyone, but in reality you don't have a clue. Everything that you know is formulated from a biased point of view, and hence due to that it is biased.

You really should try to move out of the box that you have placed yourself into.

And I think that your greatest accomplishment was making your own nutball conspiracy theory website.






If it is priced separately they can provide anything they like. They can make their own prices, but they will be forced not to cut people if they get sick.



This is possible. But even in England (which we are not creating) there is a lot of private insurance and hospitals. The insurance companies just need to start figuring out new ways to save money that does not include screwing people when they get sick.



Again I will say it, if the insurance companies had not been greedy over the last 3 decades and figured a way to insure everyone we would not need this plan. They could even today wake up and say we will take care of this and get the government out of it if they promised to get everyone covered and not deny care that is needed.

But they refused to do it, so I do think it is up to us to fill that void that is 1/8th of Americans.

Denser than a chest full of granite, and while you sound educated it is akin to the charade offered by Iron Pyrite (Fool's Gold.)

The very section you quoted isn't the entirety of the bill, and the bill quite specifically states that insurance companies will be obligated to offer a plan that matches that chosen by the government at a price point chosen by the government (through the false dichotomy of having to compete with the government.)

Though yes, I supposed technically you are correct, while in actuality ignoring the fact that the section you pulled up to prove yourself right clearly mentions exempted items, not items that are going to be mandatory.

On the whole you are incorrect, but that shouldn't be surprising.
 
The part that I cut and pasted is on page 90 something of the Obama looking good thread. You are right it is not the entire passage.

But wait are you saying that I am right or wrong about the fact that insurance companies will offer whatever they feel like? Because what I was showing is direct evidence to that being the case.

Can you point to where they say that they are forced to offer the government plan, because I think that is only if they are part of the program and that they are not forced to be. I would like to read it.
 
The part that I cut and pasted is on page 90 something of the Obama looking good thread. You are right it is not the entire passage.

But wait are you saying that I am right or wrong about the fact that insurance companies will offer whatever they feel like? Because what I was showing is direct evidence to that being the case.

Can you point to where they say that they are forced to offer the government plan, because I think that is only if they are part of the program and that they are not forced to be. I would like to read it.

I said you are technically right (as witnessed by that passage) but in actuality wrong because there is a clause in the bill that mandates that insurance companies will be obligated to offer some minimal plan chosen by the government that includes benefits chosen by the government at a pricing point chosen by the government (through the Socialist Insurance Corporation of America.)

While the insurance companies will be free to offer additional benefits they will not be free to attach those benefits to the basic plan, or remove benefits from the basic plan, or alter the pricing of the plan based on their perceived risk of an individual catching a catastrophic disease and thus their control over their own policies will be directly usurped by the government.
 
I said you are technically right (as witnessed by that passage) but in actuality wrong because there is a clause in the bill that mandates that insurance companies will be obligated to offer some minimal plan chosen by the government that includes benefits chosen by the government at a pricing point chosen by the government (through the Socialist Insurance Corporation of America.)

While the insurance companies will be free to offer additional benefits they will not be free to attach those benefits to the basic plan, or remove benefits from the basic plan, or alter the pricing of the plan based on their perceived risk of an individual catching a catastrophic disease and thus their control over their own policies will be directly usurped by the government.

Where's the clause? We've been going over this bill with a fine-toothed comb in your absence and want to see the actual text.

And why the hyperbole? We're engaging in rational argument and you're polluting the edifying discourse.
 
Interesting Jrh, lets ask it in a different way.


In a complete socialized situation where there is 100% government control over healthcare, they own the doctors, hospitals, everything.

And one hospital opens that is private.

Is that 100% pure capitalism?

Socialism comes in many stripes. Total ownership isn't necessary as long as government has control over the outcomes.

Vi
 
Government is the enemy, both sides are at fault and corrupt liars. Not all on each side but enough on each side to get us where we are.
 
why, cuz you disagree with them? bet you didnt have a problem with the "no-nukes" crowd.

"dont argue with a fool because soon nobody will be able to tell the difference" some really smart mother fucker.

jeff out

mipbar in

no, because they are so far out of touch, they had no idea tea-bagging means dangling my balls on your forehead
 
Did you just want to make all the nutjobs come out of the woodwork again for the 50 millionth time with their same old crap op?

Greedy, theiving, hating, controlling, racist, republicans spam about this topic enough already but they are not all evill most are just ignorant to the truth, that they're being manipulated and in truth don't have a damn clue what is actually in their own and their fellow countrymans best interests.

Just because he won race is no longer an issue give me a break he didn't win 100% of the votes did he? I must have missed that I thought only 50 some percent of americans actually voted for him that leaves a portion of the 40 some percent to be racists and another portion just ignorant or don't care about anyone but themselves.
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