Topping cola's.

I don't know if anybody has tried or heard of this but this happened to me quite by accident. One of my Tangerine Dreams (4 weeks into flower) seemed to be bit behind with regards bud developement. They were only half as wide as it's sisters so I decided to drop the light a bit and see if that helped. Took my eye of the ball for a few hours and when I went back, the top of one of the cola's was toasted. I decided not to leave the damaged material and nipped the damaged foliage off (approx 15mm). Now is the interesting bit, 5 days later, that toasted / topped cola is now approx 50% thicker than all the other colas. I decided to do an experiment and against my better judgement topped 2 colas on another plant to see what, if anything happens. That was yesterday, will be keeping a very close eye. Anybody tried or heard of this before.

I wouldn't get into the practice of doing this. There's nothing beneficial about topping your flowers.

mccumcumber said:

I wouldn't get into the practice of doing this. There's nothing beneficial about topping your flowers.

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Im sure that's what people said about topping plants when people first started doing that to increase yield. Trying out different things isn't a bad idea. For all we know topping the main cola while it's flowering might make the plant redirect more nutrients to the cola and fatten it up. Maybe the new trend will be to top your cola's 2 weeks before harvest instead of flushing lol.

mccumcumber said:

I wouldn't get into the practice of doing this. There's nothing beneficial about topping your flowers.

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You don't understand how plants grow.


Topping colas is fine. If you take out the apical meristem, the axial secondary meristem will become the main growth points. The colas will fatten or "foxtail" as the secondary flowers fight to become the new dominant apical meristem.

Don't top colas in flower...the stress at that point can easily make the plant hermi as you damaged it...I did the same thing to one of my plants cutting off the damaged part and it split into two, but they had quite a few nanners pop up deep in the bud

You don't understand how plants grow.


Topping colas is fine. If you take out the apical meristem, the axial secondary meristem will become the main growth points. The colas will fatten or "foxtail" as the secondary flowers fight to become the new dominant apical meristem.

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You know when a new node grows up and all of the plant matter that will grow is still curled up. Well, that plant matter is like the human equivalent of stem cells. It is undetermined what it will be (could either continue to veg or flower) and that is called the apical meristem. More specifically, what grows above the ground is refered to as the SAM (Shoot apical meristem) and what grows beneath the ground is referred to as RAM (root apical meristem) which controls how roots grow. If you top a plant, what you are doing is taking off the apical meristem or growing tip as I will refer to it. Which lets the two side branches that come at each node grow out. Those are referred to as the axial secondary meristem. Obviously once you top a plant you are letting your ASM, or side branches, grow out and become the new top of the plant. Which is why EVERYONE says if you're going to top, do it during vegging. You are changing the plant's initial growth response and are, therefore, causing stress. It takes a little bit of time for the auxins and hormones to redistribute.
Once days get shorter and more Fr (low frequency waves and red color seen most commonly in HPS lights) get into the environment, a plants cells change and the the plant responds. First by converting its stem cells or shoot apical meristems into inflorescent meristem, which turns into the floral meristem. This two step process is why you get a slight amount of stretching when you switch your plant into flowering. Your plant is still growing apical meristems (all that means is new growth), however topping your plant now really posses no benefit? Why? well for starters your plant is not given any time to recover like it is during vegging, so you will just lose days off of your flowering schedule . Furthermore, stressing during flowering, as massah has said, can cause hermies. Also, topping, in order to increase yield, is done for the sole purpose of exposing new areas of your plant to light in a confined space. This will allow you to get an even distribution of light amongst all of your flowers. In vegging, topping just for shits and giggles does not increase yield in anyway, and could potential be harmful to your yield. This is no different in flowering. Topping a cola just because you would like to see the secondary branching inside your cola fatten up with almost always leave you will less bud than if you had just left your plant alone. Doing it because you burned a tip is not a bad idea at all, and possibly beneficial. But doing it for no reason is harmful and will lead more problems down the road.

Once the auxin response is removed by removing the dominant tip, it's inhibitory effect on side shoots is supressed. Not only "two" branches will grow, but all branches.

You've never done it, and I can tell by your theoretical response.

I wouldn't do it to increase yield, but in terms of space concerns (like I've had in the past) or a cola growing into a light and burning itself, the plant will carry on tremendous floral growth. All this talk of stress and hermies is all podunk marijuana pseudo-botany. I've had a DWC cab where the growth was just so phenomenal, that I couldn't stop them from hitting the lights. I topped some colas to try to halt them, but they just bushed out like madness. Hitting the glass hood and burning themselves again. Nevertheless, it was absurdly successful and the only downside was a few washed out bleached crowns.

PS: Ever hear of paragraphs. Wall of text ugh.

You're right I have never done it. Nor will I, unless I absolutely have to, like I said earlier. I'm really starting to think that topping (in the outdoor setting) during vegging isn't really beneficial either.

On a side note I will admit I just believed the stress causes hermies hype and that also influenced my decision, and responses. Funny part is, I think I always believed the hermy theory b/c I was too scared to find out what would happen if I challenged it... I think I still am.

Edit: Also, admittedly, it's pretty clear that you know more about your shit than I. Definitely causing me to regret not minoring in plant sciences and not just taking a few intro classes thinking that would be enough... I would actually be using it today.

Hermaphrodite tendencies would be genetic and due to bad breeding. Sure it could happen readily, like it could be stress induced, but it'd be due to the plant's genetic material.

Outdoor plants get varying light angles all day long, whereas indoor immobile lights make such training/topping more effective. An outdoor plant is growing out of everywhere, but growth habits can be controlled/maneuvered according to the basic structure of the plant. Naturally bushy plants, when topped, won't be as noticeable as topping a plant prone to growing one apical shoot with little side growth.

bigbud2012 said:

this topping bussiness is just basically for shaping purposes.i mean who would want just a main cola on top of there plant if its going to be the normal way a plant grows? trying new things is a good thing even tho it stresses it out a bit doesnt mean anything ive topped my one out of my 2 and so far in the few days running ive seen it growing back into 2....

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I do....topping is stupid unless it has to be done. I leave that shit for the LED growers and Floro's users that can't manage to use a real light. Nothing grows like a main cola and side shoots do just fine with a decent light. I would rather grow 20 plants with just main colas then ten with topped colas. Unless plant count AND height are concerns, it's not the most ideal way.

Afka said:

Once the auxin response is removed by removing the dominant tip, it's inhibitory effect on side shoots is supressed. Not only "two" branches will grow, but all branches.

You've never done it, and I can tell by your theoretical response.

I wouldn't do it to increase yield, but in terms of space concerns (like I've had in the past) or a cola growing into a light and burning itself, the plant will carry on tremendous floral growth. All this talk of stress and hermies is all podunk marijuana pseudo-botany. I've had a DWC cab where the growth was just so phenomenal, that I couldn't stop them from hitting the lights. I topped some colas to try to halt them, but they just bushed out like madness. Hitting the glass hood and burning themselves again. Nevertheless, it was absurdly successful and the only downside was a few washed out bleached crowns.

PS: Ever hear of paragraphs. Wall of text ugh.

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You used the words "absurdly successful" , do you think this was down to your grow setup, a rapid growing plant or the topping?

An extra week in flower to get over topping is no biggie if bud developement is that significant.

Have you done this on other occassions or was that just a one off?

It had to do with the fact it was DWC. It was just a redirection of growth, not an addition.

Instead of putting that new growth mainly out of the tip, it is shared between the side buds. Don't do it unless you have to for space concerns. Fatter colas are riskier for mold both during growth and drying/curing.

A pic update

You can see that the bud slightly to the left is considerably bigger now compared to other buds.

Afka said:

It had to do with the fact it was DWC. It was just a redirection of growth, not an addition.

Instead of putting that new growth mainly out of the tip, it is shared between the side buds. Don't do it unless you have to for space concerns. Fatter colas are riskier for mold both during growth and drying/curing.

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True, but they make the best avatar pictures, muahahaha.

MrMeanGreen said:

I don't know if anybody has tried or heard of this but this happened to me quite by accident. One of my Tangerine Dreams (4 weeks into flower) seemed to be bit behind with regards bud developement. They were only half as wide as it's sisters so I decided to drop the light a bit and see if that helped. Took my eye of the ball for a few hours and when I went back, the top of one of the cola's was toasted. I decided not to leave the damaged material and nipped the damaged foliage off (approx 15mm). Now is the interesting bit, 5 days later, that toasted / topped cola is now approx 50% thicker than all the other colas. I decided to do an experiment and against my better judgement topped 2 colas on another plant to see what, if anything happens. That was yesterday, will be keeping a very close eye. Anybody tried or heard of this before.

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I wouldnt recommend it. Your cola might be getting bigger, but the rest of the plant might suffer. Guess it all depends on the size of the plant. I also wonder if it swells because the plants trying to heal it and sends most of its resources there.

bamfrivet said:

Im sure that's what people said about topping plants when people first started doing that to increase yield. Trying out different things isn't a bad idea. For all we know topping the main cola while it's flowering might make the plant redirect more nutrients to the cola and fatten it up. Maybe the new trend will be to top your cola's 2 weeks before harvest instead of flushing lol.

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"might make the plant redirect more nutrients to the cola and fatten it up"

And its just a redirection of resources at the minimum. Those nutrients were going elsewhere till the damage. It effects hormones in your plant.

bamfrivet said:

Im sure that's what people said about topping plants when people first started doing that to increase yield. Trying out different things isn't a bad idea. For all we know topping the main cola while it's flowering might make the plant redirect more nutrients to the cola and fatten it up. Maybe the new trend will be to top your cola's 2 weeks before harvest instead of flushing lol.

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He also might be the next person running to the forums complaining about hermies and his genetics, when he over stressed his plant

Afka said:

Once the auxin response is removed by removing the dominant tip, it's inhibitory effect on side shoots is supressed. Not only "two" branches will grow, but all branches.

You've never done it, and I can tell by your theoretical response.

I wouldn't do it to increase yield, but in terms of space concerns (like I've had in the past) or a cola growing into a light and burning itself, the plant will carry on tremendous floral growth. All this talk of stress and hermies is all podunk marijuana pseudo-botany. I've had a DWC cab where the growth was just so phenomenal, that I couldn't stop them from hitting the lights. I topped some colas to try to halt them, but they just bushed out like madness. Hitting the glass hood and burning themselves again. Nevertheless, it was absurdly successful and the only downside was a few washed out bleached crowns.

PS: Ever hear of paragraphs. Wall of text ugh.

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How is what he said "theoretical" ? Just because you havent done something doesnt mean you dont know what you are talking about. It helps, but we would be naive to think people cant learn by themselves now a days with the internet and online everything we have today

corners said:

I wouldnt recommend it. Your cola might be getting bigger, but the rest of the plant might suffer. Guess it all depends on the size of the plant. I also wonder if it swells because the plants trying to heal it and sends most of its resources there.

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You wouldn't reccomend it because the cola is getting bigger, where as it was previously behind compared to other plants and yes the plant might suffer. Then again it might not, remember it was behind and damaged in the first place. As a general rule of thumb, doesn't the plant take from the bottom to feed the flowers, a bit like a baby in a womb will kill the mother if need be to survive. The flower is the plants baby, it's future and gives itself to protect the flower.

corners said:

"might make the plant redirect more nutrients to the cola and fatten it up"

And its just a redirection of resources at the minimum. Those nutrients were going elsewhere till the damage. It effects hormones in your plant.

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This is true, but if it is taking from the plant it's self or from smaller lower buds then that's fine with me. In nature the plant is faced with no end of trauma requiring self repair.

corners said:

He also might be the next person running to the forums complaining about hermies and his genetics, when he over stressed his plant

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Having a bad day are ya mate, had a few too many beers and not enough smoke. So far some healthy biology based discussion has come up, do you not read? If it goes pete tong then thats my look out, that's the risk I take for trying some 'maybe not that new' techniques.

corners said:

How is what he said "theoretical" ? Just because you havent done something doesnt mean you dont know what you are talking about. It helps, but we would be naive to think people cant learn by themselves now a days with the internet and online everything we have today

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It is people like you who spout shite day after day with no experience or knowledge base that fills the internet with shite to teach people shite who are then able to go on and spout shite in your name. Viagra was a treatment for heart problems until someone noticed he had a boner all day. Some things are discovered by science, some things are discovered by accident, science + trial and error is how we got to where we are now and how we will move forward.

Really.... all you have done is try to rubbish what has been discussed based on what???