Those number are for hydro and I will follow them in the flood and drain system using 3 gallon airports I have 2 treys so I'm gonna do a lot of comparison grows first up dyna gro verse technaflora! The dyna gro guy I talked to said you can use it with anything and there's no need to adjust ph it has a high range!! I'm Gna start with kln and then gro 100 ppm and work from there. in my 5 gallon buckets I do 1/2 tsp of gro with tap they love it So far but you think Every time I feed even in veg I should do 1 ml gro and 2 ml of bloom? And your right about tf setupHere is Homebrewer's old posted values for what he fed in hydro after veg with r.o. water and ph'd around 6.5:
Transition (1250ppm for 2-3 weeks):
Grow 3.5
Bloom 5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5
Bloom (1350 ppm for 4-5 weeks):
Grow 2.5
Bloom 7.5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 1.5
Ripen (1250ppm for 1-2 week):
Grow 0
Bloom 10.5
ProTekt 5
MagPro 0
Some of the ppms may seem low, but given my 15 gallons res size, water usage/evaporation quickly condenses the ppm in a 24 hour period.
It's a starting point, but in aero you will want to start out around 200 ppm or so (.7 scale) with I assume similar ratios. The disclaimer is that Atomizer told me Dyna-gro didn't look like it might be the best blend for aero- but it was my contention to try it anyway just because it works so damn beautifully in soil, inert soil, and hydro. If you were to use sunshine mix #4 all you need to do to get some sweet looking plants in 5 gallon buckets is use 1ml of grow and 2ml of bloom per gallon in a feed, feed, water schedule... See why I was saying it might be the easiest way to grow even easier than those earthbuckets in alot of ways, if you could just set up a timed drip cycle and a res you could leave for weeks.
True HP Aero For 2011
- Thread starter Trichy Bastard
- Start date
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Cool- I highly recommend only using the products mentioned, and nothing else except perhaps HB thinks he got better taste and crystals with a little floraliscious during flower if adding anything at all. The KLN is fine in the beginning of course and has gotten good reviews for rooting. That schedule is assuming after veg is over- but I wouldnt use any bloom during veg. In my experience it's ok to switch to bloom nutes about a week or so AFTER the light switch to 12/12 because limiting the P during the stretch seems to also limit the stretch itself (although it's only a theory I am working on trying to empirically prove with testing). I think tf may have mentioned he practices a similar approach himself. For veg just use the protekt, and grow 7-9-5(HB used around 4ml of each in his hydro setup)...
If you do a comparison grow, I'd urge you to keep all the variables identical on both testing areas, and it would be nice if you'd keep a documentary thread similar to Hombrewer's.
(consider me already subbed if so.)tree farmer
Well-Known Member
i have never used the dyna grow bloom and grow in HP(in dirt though) but i have tried thier Foliage-Pro 9-3-6 one part formula in my hydraulic HP system and it didnt work. i tried to get it to work for 2 weeks and the plants just didnt respond no matter what i did. switched back to GH and in 2 days they were flourishing again. i was told that the nitrogen used in the dyna grow pro foliage has to much ammonia to work well in hydro but its just what i read and dont know if thats why i couldnt get it to work but i know once i switched back to the same NPK the dyna grow foliage pro has only using GH everything worked well. the foliage pro is some great shit though for dirt vegging. nicest plants in dirt i ever had. and that NPK formula the foilage pro has is all i use now for vegging in any type of media (coco,dirt,bubbler, HP) and i think it does exceptionaly well in them all for vegging.
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Thanks for your input tf... The stuff is great in soil isn't it...
It was the only nute I used in hydro back 20 years ago... I am not sure why it didn't work well for you in hydro- there is a bit of ammoniacal nitrogen in it that conventional wisdom would say makes it not perfect for hydro- then again it also has alot more trace nutrients than any other brand I have seen- and all in one bottle. If you use r.o. water you'll need the mag-pro, and the silica really works synergestically to make the PH rock solid- maybe it's the fact I used all of them together? Also like most other nutes I felt there was not enough N in the flower bottle, so as usual I would add some veg to it.. Since I have had decent results in hydro with it somehow, I hope the same regimen but weaker will work in aero? I guess it doesn't hurt to try again. It doesn't hurt to try I guess... As I mentioned, Homebrewer here has some great threads on using dynagro after Uncle Ben turned him on to it. They were just as fascinating to me to read as your threads were but on a completely different subject. If you want to read something, check them out and tell me what you think- he has lots of beautiful pics to backup his work.Cool- I highly recommend only using the products mentioned, and nothing else except perhaps HB thinks he got better taste and crystals with a little floraliscious during flower if adding anything at all. The KLN is fine in the beginning of course and has gotten good reviews for rooting. That schedule is assuming after veg is over- but I wouldnt use any bloom during veg. In my experience it's ok to switch to bloom nutes about a week or so AFTER the light switch to 12/12 because limiting the P during the stretch seems to also limit the stretch itself (although it's only a theory I am working on trying to empirically prove with testing). I think tf may have mentioned he practices a similar approach himself. For veg just use the protekt, and grow 7-9-5(HB used around 4ml of each in his hydro setup)...
If you do a comparison grow, I'd urge you to keep all the variables identical on both testing areas, and it would be nice if you'd keep a documentary thread similar to Hombrewer's.
ok thats what ill do. and if I do a thread ill let you know but more then likely ill just email you updates if thats cool?....
I just tried foliage pro in my pro mix and man your right they love it!!
I had some yellowing on a few fan leaves mostly the very top of the plant ( new growth) im using tap I think it could be more of a ph issue rather then N defficiancy? Im going to try the gro and bloom in hp aero and keep my fingers are crossed! good to see your still around tf
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
ok thats what ill do. and if I do a thread ill let you know but more then likely ill just email you updates if thats cool?....
I just tried foliage pro in my pro mix and man your right they love it!!
That's fine DH
Btw as for the yellowing- is it just a leaf here and there? Well if so it's like how you get a pimple once in a while- it just happens. The big picture and all of your leaves as a whole is really what to look for. I just cut off the ugly leaves when it looks like they are becoming more of a burdon than help to the plant and don't give it much though otherwise.Ya know,.. after you've bought all the parts, and you're high as fuck,
and you get time to actually put some pieces into place,.. this foreskins post is one of the more useful reads here 
There should be the ability to sticky posts inside a thread, call it cliff noting
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Ya know,.. after you've bought all the parts, and you're high as fuck,
There should be the ability to sticky posts inside a thread, call it cliff noting
Ohhh the irony!
So- are you getting the stuff together now and ready to get up and going with the new parts? Honestly- the hardest part is ordering the stuff- putting it together is kinda fun... The important work is in the design phase- where you have to make sure you understand what you're working towards through and through.
I'm getting it,.. gotta go to home de pot tomorrow for some adapters, but it'll get together with at least my 1sec timer this weekend i bet.
Check this out Richie Rich, AEM Water/Methanol Injection Check Valve Kit. It has a 15psi crack point. At $20+ it's still too expensive to drop one at every mister, well at least in my setup, but that's one hell of a check valve given what I've seen available. Could be an option for those not looking to buy a solenoid for every noz? I was also eying these 10psi Residual Pressure Valves for braking systems, not sure how they'd fair with water, not Dot4 in them, but same idea, get away from buying a bunch of noids, yet another line pinch down by all the misters. This POS holds at least 3 psi back, but big woop. I'm not buying nothing, but to date all I've been able to find is CV's with a 1 psi cracking point.
EDIT:
Waaaaait a minute.... fuck all those losers up there. Seriously now, what about this bad boy?
Drip-Free Diaphragm Check Valve: 1/4" MPT x FPT, 25 PSI Crack Point!. For only $3.24. I must not have been looking that hard before, lol.. One of those at every mister? What do you think? Be pretty sweet to have one solenoid (ok 2 for safety fail safe reasons), and a gauge after your noid, before your misters (in my case 18 noz's) reading 20+ PSI all the time, no? Do you think those would get one tenth of a second solenoid fire time, down to actually one tenth of a second mist burst?
Check this out Richie Rich, AEM Water/Methanol Injection Check Valve Kit. It has a 15psi crack point. At $20+ it's still too expensive to drop one at every mister, well at least in my setup, but that's one hell of a check valve given what I've seen available. Could be an option for those not looking to buy a solenoid for every noz? I was also eying these 10psi Residual Pressure Valves for braking systems, not sure how they'd fair with water, not Dot4 in them, but same idea, get away from buying a bunch of noids, yet another line pinch down by all the misters. This POS holds at least 3 psi back, but big woop. I'm not buying nothing, but to date all I've been able to find is CV's with a 1 psi cracking point.
EDIT:
Waaaaait a minute.... fuck all those losers up there. Seriously now, what about this bad boy?
Drip-Free Diaphragm Check Valve: 1/4" MPT x FPT, 25 PSI Crack Point!. For only $3.24. I must not have been looking that hard before, lol.. One of those at every mister? What do you think? Be pretty sweet to have one solenoid (ok 2 for safety fail safe reasons), and a gauge after your noid, before your misters (in my case 18 noz's) reading 20+ PSI all the time, no? Do you think those would get one tenth of a second solenoid fire time, down to actually one tenth of a second mist burst?
you need anti drip valves. Problem is they`re usually designed to match the nozzles but you can always make adapters. Fogco do 2 adv`s, a low pressure type that opens at 70psi and closes at 35psi and a high pressure type that opens at 145psi and closes at 70psi. Netafim do adv`s that open at 58psi and close at 30psi. Solenoids at the nozzles open and close without any pressure differential, adv`s are the next best thing.
They say "drip-free operation" right in the specs, wouldn't hold much of that 25 PSI cracking point back if it dripped would it? Why do you think those would not hold 25 PSI in the line, right behind every mister, if that's where you mount them, as well as cut down on pre and after spray amounts? At $3.24 a CV vs $25+ a noid, it might not necessarily be the next best thing, it might be the smartest thing that has so close to the same effect it makes no sense to spend a dime more?
The open and close pressure will be different. It may take 25psi pressure to initially compress the spring to open the valve but the valve is closed solely by the spring pressure. So the water pressure will have to be considerably lower than 25psi otherwise the valve would remain open. They work more like a tap than a solenoid
'considerably lower' huh?...
I guess someone will have to test that to be sure. Who knows how one of them behind a cloud top would effect it's actual output. If it says 25 psi crack point, i have a hard time believing a gauge tween the misters and noid wouldn't read at least 20+ psi, and that's a hell of a lot better then 0, which i know is what everyone not named bastard has right now at there noz's, lol.
I guess someone will have to test that to be sure. Who knows how one of them behind a cloud top would effect it's actual output. If it says 25 psi crack point, i have a hard time believing a gauge tween the misters and noid wouldn't read at least 20+ psi, and that's a hell of a lot better then 0, which i know is what everyone not named bastard has right now at there noz's, lol.
The 4023 nozzle..
I found these the other day, and recently just found talk of them here on RIU.
.75 GPH@160psi, .59 GPH@ 100psi. It opens at 90psi, probably close and hold back 50 psi at worst right? Disassemble for cleaning too. All for $7 per. Thoughts?..
View attachment 1480673
http://www.steamshop.com/4023antidrip.pdf
I found these the other day, and recently just found talk of them here on RIU.
.75 GPH@160psi, .59 GPH@ 100psi. It opens at 90psi, probably close and hold back 50 psi at worst right? Disassemble for cleaning too. All for $7 per. Thoughts?..
View attachment 1480673
http://www.steamshop.com/4023antidrip.pdf
That's fine DH
Well it's on 3 of my plants and it's not random leaves it's the very tips of each branch on the plant?..
Diyer funny how you dig up a thread from forskin!! If you only you guys had met your like twins lost at birth lol
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
lol..
Anyway... tips of each branch, or the leaftips? Have you tried to take a look at some plant problem/deficiency recommendation charts? Can you send me a pic or two of the issue along with perhaps any relevant info such as temps, ppm and type of nutes?
You`d have to buy one and test it. Almost $7 each but thats without the nozzle body ($9.75 each). They definitely wouldnt be any good without that bit
What you talking about Willis?.. I don't see where it says the nozzle body doesn't come with it? Not that at $9.75 they still wouldn't come in cheaper then SOME people spent on their nozzles,.. lol
The red 115º cloud tops i use are .0185 GPM flow rate. These work out to .0098 GPM, about half as much,.. damn! That's only .62ml a full one second mist, per noz. Those are lower flow rate specs then I've ever seen. I emailed them about the internal CV's specs, crack point and close point to be sure, but it looks bad ass. Someone must have tried these already right?
@dickhead..
Hey what can i say,.. some of the best shit, comes from the biggest assholes. It really was helpful seeing him Lay>It>Out>Like>That,.. lol
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
What you talking about Willis?.. I don't see where it says the nozzle body doesn't come with it? Not that at $9.75 they still wouldn't come in cheaper then SOME people spent on their nozzles,.. lol
The red 115º cloud tops i use are .0185 GPM flow rate. These work out to .0098 GPM, about half as much,.. damn! That's only .62ml a full one second mist, per noz. Those are lower flow rate specs then I've ever seen. I emailed them about the internal CV's specs, crack point and close point to be sure, but it looks bad ass. Someone must have tried these already right?
@dickhead..
Hey what can i say,.. some of the best shit, comes from the biggest assholes. It really was helpful seeing him Lay>It>Out>Like>That,.. lol
I have some red cloud tops, and the mist seems finer than the biocontrols by quite a bit. tree farmer just reminded me this probably isn't an ideal thing though. The definite drawback is that they don't have nearly the throw or dispertion characteristics, so it will be much harder to get the same coverage and penetration with them. Not saying they are doomed, but those are some things I noticed. Cavadge and Rom used the cv versions. You're still missing the point with the low crack points, when the psi drops to 25, the mist becomes alot coarser- and then you just undid all the work of making 50 micron mist on your roots by covering them up with bigger droplets Arnold
I think you're missing more then just one point. First off, i use the CV cloudtops too, not that a 1psi crack point means shit anyway. Secondly, the "25psi" crack was in the Drip-Free Diaphragm Check Valve i linked, what you quoted me up there talking about was the 4023 nozzles, which i said i read have a 90psi crack point. I still wanna verify that with a company first, but if it's anywhere near that high a crack point, and the spring inside looks like it's a beast, what do you think the close point is? A worthless 1-25 psi or something? I doubt it. If two noz's in a trash can isn't enough coverage, (i think me and Mike can both verify that) and 3 turns out to be a bit of overkill with noz's like the cloud tops, and the digs that have similar specs, maybe 3 of the 4023's that put out half as much, with a tighter spray angle which should go further, could be just right for us in cans. Not to mention, as I've said before, if you're not Richie Rich and buying a noid for every noz you're undoubtedly at 0PSI at every noz when your noid is shut. You're also going to build pressure slower, and spit out more oversized droplets at first, Vs someone with even just a 25psi CV right behind there noz's.
So again i ask, how is ANY pressure being held back a bad thing? Or is it just not a 'good enough thing' because your hero's didn't think of it first and or its not the over priced path you chose? Just because it's not the best option you can think of doesn't mean a thing honestly. Have any of you tried that Diaphragm Check Valve and seen how much it holds back? Have any of you bought the 4023's and see what they can do? Didn't think so. For someone starting out they might very well be the smarter option.
You got your noz's, and mind, you say the mist out of mine is much finer. Well did you measure the width of the droplets? Maybe that means mine are actually at 50 microns, and yours are much larger. Could explain the lack of root porn from you in this 200+ page thread. The right amount of mist in your root zone is just that and nothing more, blow your 50 micron droplets has hard as you want left to right in that cube homo, lol. it doesn't make them fit into any smaller a hole between root hairs then the downward spiraling vortex i'll have going in my cans.