True HP Aero For 2011
- Thread starter Trichy Bastard
- Start date
foresakenlion
Active Member
On media, be it rockwool or hydroton, which he's right is a huge headache, after cleaning my last batch, I decided after all that torture, no more media, and actually media slows down growth rate, even if you were running LPA, just having it suspended, would increase growth rate.
A lot of people have successfully used those PVC slip to thread connections or net pots with neoprene to support their clones, this technique could be used on a larger scale, the issue is with weight, now I don't advise the net cups, unless you cut off the net and simply use the ring, pulling your roots out of those isn't fun, nor is maring them when you do it. on the PVC couplers, the issue is traditional the orifice size on the bottom is simply not a great enough diameter to allow the mist to float inside
With the above in mind I found these connections that are for house pipe to sewer pipe, they have the same form factor as the slip to npt fittings. They're available in up to 5" diameter that I saw. Now the key is support, I have an idea for that as well, you put these through your surface of your choice, on the other side, you'd use a sized female thread, to secure, if it's too long, either, hacksaw/viberating tool, etc to make it more flush.
If this works, then the new issue would be the total weight of the plants making the top flip over, you could combat this with even plant placement, a low screen over the canopy, or hinges connecting the surface to the chamber from the backside.
Thoughts, comments?
A lot of people have successfully used those PVC slip to thread connections or net pots with neoprene to support their clones, this technique could be used on a larger scale, the issue is with weight, now I don't advise the net cups, unless you cut off the net and simply use the ring, pulling your roots out of those isn't fun, nor is maring them when you do it. on the PVC couplers, the issue is traditional the orifice size on the bottom is simply not a great enough diameter to allow the mist to float inside
With the above in mind I found these connections that are for house pipe to sewer pipe, they have the same form factor as the slip to npt fittings. They're available in up to 5" diameter that I saw. Now the key is support, I have an idea for that as well, you put these through your surface of your choice, on the other side, you'd use a sized female thread, to secure, if it's too long, either, hacksaw/viberating tool, etc to make it more flush.
If this works, then the new issue would be the total weight of the plants making the top flip over, you could combat this with even plant placement, a low screen over the canopy, or hinges connecting the surface to the chamber from the backside.
Thoughts, comments?
Trichy Bastard
Well-Known Member
Hey bishs, sorry I have not been round much the last few weeks. To answer this question I believe that the roots in a small chamber will get oversaturated and will literally be the same to them as ebb/flow. You will have a much easier setup just building an ebb/flow and not have any loss of performance in my mind as compared to an aero setup in a smallish container. If you dial in your ebb/flow system correctly, you can get very good results. If you like to see some pics of such results, check out homebrewer's threads. He has a very simple setup, and focuses heavily on proper nuting/environmental conditions. I think he grows some of the better plants I've ever seen, and has minimal upkeep for his system. The thing with aero is if you want to reap the results, you'll have to really make sure the roots all get mist, but don't get too wet. Because of mechanical limitations you'd never be able to get a mict cycle time low enough to achieve this while also ensuring the roots are all getting misted. A larger chamber allows a mist head in every direction, but their combined mist wont get the chamber too wet as you can control the mist by having .5 second burts or so, the mist will expand and move out in all directions before hitting a wall and dripping down the sides. You could try a single mist head in a small chamber, but then the roots will have dry spots as there simply isn't enough room for the mist to expand and move around before it makes contact with the walls and sticks to them, so you would need more mist heads, but you could never have a cycle time low enough to not oversaturate the chamber (think hundredths of a second timing, or something rediculously unnattainable). Hope this clarifies some things for you.
Thanks TB 
.. I'm more then likely going to use the identical items that you have posted on page 3. Except for the chamber.. I think I will keep the reservoir in the separate chamber outside of the tent. I'm wondering would I still need a silk screen netting to prevent the roots from hitting the floor? If I do not use the silk screen netting would over saturation occur on the bottom side of the roots?
How do you feel about vegging in ebb and flow, then transferring to aero?
.. I'm more then likely going to use the identical items that you have posted on page 3. Except for the chamber.. I think I will keep the reservoir in the separate chamber outside of the tent. I'm wondering would I still need a silk screen netting to prevent the roots from hitting the floor? If I do not use the silk screen netting would over saturation occur on the bottom side of the roots?How do you feel about vegging in ebb and flow, then transferring to aero?
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
I am back to using S2G/Rockwool starter cubes with my new found PVC couplers. As you can see they all look alike, but the one on the left has wide bottom mouth and short thread area, which readily allows mist IF you mist from BELOW. Yeah I first used the others and had dead root issues.
Don't recall whether this was in S2G or RW. You CAN forgo a small net pot, but will need to add a neoprene disc around the main stalk before the plant gets too heavy and falls through. Inside the coupler is a > 1/4" lip that holds the puck/plant. As the main stem diameter increases it pushes the neoprene against the side walls, preventing free-fall. Of course, I learned this the hard way. hth
Don't recall whether this was in S2G or RW. You CAN forgo a small net pot, but will need to add a neoprene disc around the main stalk before the plant gets too heavy and falls through. Inside the coupler is a > 1/4" lip that holds the puck/plant. As the main stem diameter increases it pushes the neoprene against the side walls, preventing free-fall. Of course, I learned this the hard way. hth
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chennemann
Active Member
Why are using rockwell or stg cubes instead of just using an aero cloner? You can clone with your aeroponic system if you want.
I use to use rockwell when I did dirt, but since going to aeroponic it seems it is hard to keep the moisture correct in them. I really don't see an advantage to using them. Please advise your findings...
chennemann
Active Member
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
I'm in the process of trying riot cubes, as aero cloning alone seems to elude me. I plan to let roots show in the cubes, in my humidome, hand watered once per day... Then I plan to transfer to a small bubble rig, to establish some root mass, and finally to my hpa rig. Talk about a pain. I'm really hoping those cubes get the job done. Really, my whole plan is counting on it. If they root without flaw, I think I'll be able to ditch the idea of keeping a mother, and cut clones just before, or early into flower for the next go.
What part eludes you? I'm just starting to try aero cloning so no advice just hoping for a heads up as to where things go south.
I thought about this vs keeping a mother as well. Are you planning on vegging them for 6/7 weeks while you current crop flowers? I thought this would be to long but who knows?
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
I've not been able to get a single aero clone to work out. My first attempt, I got roots, but by the time I did, the clone was in pretty bad shape. This time around, I'm having trouble even getting roots. I picked up the rapid rooters a few days ago. I think they will help me get roots started, and I'll try & keep that as the only medium.
i was thinking i could cut clones as late as a month into flower, giving me a bit more of a window, but I'm really not too sure how that's gonna work out. I'd really like to not have to keep a mother. I feel, if timed right, a clone could have just the right amount of growth/root mass, to pop right in as the flowering ladies are finishing. Its a learning curve. I'm gonna figure it out one way or another.
i was thinking i could cut clones as late as a month into flower, giving me a bit more of a window, but I'm really not too sure how that's gonna work out. I'd really like to not have to keep a mother. I feel, if timed right, a clone could have just the right amount of growth/root mass, to pop right in as the flowering ladies are finishing. Its a learning curve. I'm gonna figure it out one way or another.
PetFlora
Well-Known Member
chennemann
Active Member
Could you post a picture of your set? What nozzles are you using? How much time do you have them on/off?
You can clone in plain water and get 90-100% clones, but it is faster if you use cloning powder. You can pick sum up for $5.
If you're getting 90-100% the I'd like to ask you those questions and also how do you select the cuttings?
chennemann
Active Member
Basically I make a normal aero cloner but with tefen nozzles and 8800 aquatec pump. I use 6 or 8 nozzles pointed upwards towards the cuttings.
Take normal cuttings just like you would in any other system. I use rooting powder and plain water. I personally feel using a humidity dome helps, and/or misting. I mist 15 seconds on 2:30 seconds off until I see roots, then start lowering the misting time. I have some larger clones right now and have them at 2 seconds and 1:30 off. Don't go to fast or they will try out.
Also I do it drain to waste, but I am sure you could recirculate if you want. I just find it easier to keep the nozzles clean.
Let me know if you have any questions. You are basically doing the same thing as an aerocloner.
Take normal cuttings just like you would in any other system. I use rooting powder and plain water. I personally feel using a humidity dome helps, and/or misting. I mist 15 seconds on 2:30 seconds off until I see roots, then start lowering the misting time. I have some larger clones right now and have them at 2 seconds and 1:30 off. Don't go to fast or they will try out.
Also I do it drain to waste, but I am sure you could recirculate if you want. I just find it easier to keep the nozzles clean.
Let me know if you have any questions. You are basically doing the same thing as an aerocloner.
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
I haven't been using high pressure to get clones started, in fact the moms I'm cutting from are in dirt. I started with LP sump+ez-cloner nozzles+air stone in a bucket setup. That didn't work out too well. Then I made a bubble cloner, with again, not great results. This time around I got em in a rapid rooter, in a 3" net cup w/hydroton, and plan to pull em out of the cup as roots begin to show, and it's back in the bubble cloner. I don't want my plants growing through net cups. Seems a bit restrictive. They've been going a couple of days now. I really hope it works this time.
Ok, so mine is a 5G bucket with 6800 driving 4 Tefen nozzles mounted around the rim.
Sounds similar except for the nozzle position and I recirculate.
I've ever done cloning before....
When I started my first try 2 weeks ago I didn't really pay that much attention to where I cut from and one flopped over immediately but seemed to recover, the other two tolerated the cutting better and they are the two that may survive.
Here are the last pics I took, the one pictured has shot out a few real roots, a second has nubs but no roots yet, I think the third is a lost cause.
At what point do you start to feed them?
Thanks
chennemann
Active Member
Here are a few more tips:
1) I highly recommend not using dirt, cocco, peat, etc... The media sticks to the roots and makes it hard to get started. You can do it, but it takes much longer.
2) We have found cloning either with low/med/high pressure aero or even bubble cloners to work great.
3) If you want to clone in something root riots seem to be the best. We have not had stem issues with them yet. You can get stem rot with rockwell if it stays to wet.
4) Humidity domes help. Some people cut off part of the leafs to reduce the stress. Mist the top of the dome for the first couple days.
5) You do not need much light at all.
r0m30
You can clone in a 5 gallon bucket with 4 misters. I always recommend drain to waste, but you can recirculate during cloning.
You should have roots in 3-10 days depending on the strain, temperature, etc... Make sure you mist for a long time if your cloning.
After the roots show on all the clones, I start off at 50 PPM and work up to 200-250 PPM in veg. In the cloner I stay at real low maybe 150 PPM. They stay in the cloner until the roots start to puff out and I know they will be fine in the next step.
The two mistakes we made was upping the ppm and lowering the misting time to quickly. HPA is amazing how little nutrients the plants need.
Please let me know if you have any other questions. This has been quite a journey and very expensive...
1) I highly recommend not using dirt, cocco, peat, etc... The media sticks to the roots and makes it hard to get started. You can do it, but it takes much longer.
2) We have found cloning either with low/med/high pressure aero or even bubble cloners to work great.
3) If you want to clone in something root riots seem to be the best. We have not had stem issues with them yet. You can get stem rot with rockwell if it stays to wet.
4) Humidity domes help. Some people cut off part of the leafs to reduce the stress. Mist the top of the dome for the first couple days.
5) You do not need much light at all.
r0m30
You can clone in a 5 gallon bucket with 4 misters. I always recommend drain to waste, but you can recirculate during cloning.
You should have roots in 3-10 days depending on the strain, temperature, etc... Make sure you mist for a long time if your cloning.
After the roots show on all the clones, I start off at 50 PPM and work up to 200-250 PPM in veg. In the cloner I stay at real low maybe 150 PPM. They stay in the cloner until the roots start to puff out and I know they will be fine in the next step.
The two mistakes we made was upping the ppm and lowering the misting time to quickly. HPA is amazing how little nutrients the plants need.
Please let me know if you have any other questions. This has been quite a journey and very expensive...
Mike Young
Well-Known Member
Thanks for the info, and confirming for me that my plan will work if executed correctly. I'm also glad you mentioned using such a low ppm. I was planning on starting at 250, which it seems would've caused issues. I've been very eager to finally get my rig up & running. I'm so close now, I can taste it. Or, smell it, rather. So chenne, you got any pics of your setup? Or some root porn, lol.
chennemann
Active Member
Just so you know I made these mistakes already, I hope it saves you time/money.
I lowered the time to quickly and had some yellowing. I thought it was because of N deficiency and upped the ppm and burned the plants.
In conclusion take it slow on lowering the misting time/amount and keep the ppm way lower than normal. I posted some root porn from my friends system.
I lowered the time to quickly and had some yellowing. I thought it was because of N deficiency and upped the ppm and burned the plants.
In conclusion take it slow on lowering the misting time/amount and keep the ppm way lower than normal. I posted some root porn from my friends system.