True HP Aero For 2011

tree farmer said:

yea to a small degree Mike with walls and floors but i doubt very little with silk screen. in all truth the roots that lay on a sloped floor would probably get the greatest NFT benefit but the walls very little as the roots seem to stack up there and not allow much to reach the wall to run down. in any case it has to be a very slight NFT effect because the flow is just to little to act like a full NFT effect. and the roots just dont develop the same structure as a full NFT system would. Im starting to move away from Silk Screen and going strictly with sloped bottoms as it seems these systems always have better and healthier roots systems it appears to me. cant say yield was much different just had more robust root systems. Nothing wrong with hybred systems and im always looking for some new twist also ive got an idea for a Hybred using the bioballs but i havent been able to test it yet but am excited to try, but right now im assembling a new AA system to see if i can finally master it.

Click to expand...

It's exciting to hear you have new idea in regards to the bottoms of the chambers. The Aerolife chamber, small as it is, does have a sloped bottom and I was debating on whether a silkscreen would be much benefit. The only reason I was thinking it might help in my case is to keep the roots from touching the cool water coils in the bottom that I added, but I'm just going to give it a try anyway. I suppose the only thing that might help in addition to the sloped bottom is a sheet of the spreader mat like G-love used in the Atomix. I suppose this tiny amount of NFT in addition to pure aero seems to be just the right amount to slightly buffer things, and ensure the water roots get what they need, while the air roots above get what they need most optimally. I did recently read about 2 distinctive roots that plants make, the taps strictly for gathering water down low, and the upper puffier roots that are more geared to gather o2 near the soil's surface. I seem to remember G-love reporting that once the roots touch bottom, is when the plants experienced a burst of growth and he also could safely quit hand watering the rockwool cubes.

In regards to the bio-balls, have you ever considered making a false bottom halfway down the chamber out of mesh screen that holds a few inches deep of the balls, with misters above this level... Then a few inches below could be your sloped bottom with the spreader mat. My thinking being perhaps the bio balls could help the aero roots spread out and get coverage, while the water roots that venture below could get a little more damp on the very bottom from the condensation drops that fall through?

I am satisfied with the operation of grand central misting, however I am still bothered by the one drip during off time. Motivated today to finish root chamber. First pic is rendering of final design with the following are a breakdown of materials. One mister spraying upward in conjuction with training/trimming the roots to grow over like a cone or a spiral will be my variable.

BflexNJshore said:

I am satisfied with the operation of grand central misting, however I am still bothered by the one drip during off time. Motivated today to finish root chamber. First pic is rendering of final design with the following are a breakdown of materials. One mister spraying upward in conjuction with training/trimming the roots to grow over like a cone or a spiral will be my variable.

Click to expand...

If heat becomes an issue, a layer of white or reflective material on that black surface will help. If your "variable" seems to cause you any problems it should be fairly easy to change things around to a trashcan or something rigid and mist from the sides. Perhaps starting from the bottom and moving up like tf recently mentioned. Looks like you had some inspiration from Mike . Good luck and keep us posted...

ps- if you're only talking about a single drop of drip, then don't worry much. Especially if planning on misting from undernerneath. In the end I think you will choose to mist from a different angle because fighting gravity doesn't seem to work out too well in these things. You may find the netpot doesn't even get wet if the necessary throw is too much a span for the mist to make. Trimming of roots sounds not ideal if can be avoided, the stress will probably affect roothair production. Also important to understand is the tips of the root are the most important part in terms of active exchange of nutrients, and I wouldn't be excited to cut them off.

A few others seem to be okay with root trimming, but I would personally try to avoid it. It's also fair to consider the ones who have done it have not had full hp rootstructure. The hairs are extremely delicate and touching them would definitely kill them, although they do grow back quickly under ideal conditions. In the end, you have more than a single variable- I'd consider misting from underneath, a non-rigid chamber, root training, and root trimming all variables departing from what has gotten the best results so far. Just something to keep in the back of your mind should you encounter any problems.

BflexNJshore said:

I am satisfied with the operation of grand central misting, however I am still bothered by the one drip during off time. Motivated today to finish root chamber. First pic is rendering of final design with the following are a breakdown of materials. One mister spraying upward in conjuction with training/trimming the roots to grow over like a cone or a spiral will be my variable.

Click to expand...

I like what I'm seeing right there, lol. Can't wait to see it get some action.

Trichy: I switched over to dyna-gro about a week ago as a result of being frustrated with minor def's on the H&G. ...and in the week, a fuckin complete recovery. I love this stuff! Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Mike Young said:

I like what I'm seeing right there, lol. Can't wait to see it get some action.

Trichy: I switched over to dyna-gro about a week ago as a result of being frustrated with minor def's on the H&G. ...and in the week, a fuckin complete recovery. I love this stuff! Thanks for pointing it out to me.

Click to expand...

Cool man, glad you gave it a try. For a "no frills" company with no booster bottles, they seem to be pretty damn good all in a single bottle or 2... I noticed they include more trace elements than any other company, figure it can't hurt to have a smidgin of nickel and molybdenum... I am really happy it seemed to help.
So I guess you'll be sort of testing it's viability in aero now . One thing is because it does have a higher ammoniacal nitrogen content, that form requires nitrifying bacteria to convert it into a form the plant can use. It makes me wonder if you'll have problems getting enough N to your plants if you use the bleach or h2o2. I think it's only 15% or so, so perhaps it will be of no real consequence. I also think one of the reasons they include higher amounts of this form of N is to help balance the PH. You'll notice it is rock solid even in recirculating environments if you include the Protekt Silica product. BTW- what ppm are you running with it currently?

Lastly, are you using well, or R.O. water? If using the latter, you'll likely need the mag-pro or you might encounter some defs eventually. With well or tap you should be fine with just the base bottle and silica if you chose. I dumped some of my dyna waste effluent on my passion fruit vines in the yard and they blew up overnight like magic lol...

One part formula, rock solid ph, micros... And it's about the cheapest stuff around. Dammit! I'm kicking myself for not trying it sooner. I seemed to be lacking in N department with the aqua flakes. I couldn't quite get it dialed in. One week on DG, and I'm sold. I'm at 4-450 at the start of flower. I now have a pretty big variable with my addition of the bubble bucket. I realize roots are going to now drop into the bucket, and I think I'll replace it with a shallow tub when the time comes. I think I'll go ahead and try to incorporate the dwc enviro for the flower period if it permits. Kinda flyin by the seat of my pants.

I'm still on R.O. for drinking and indoor aero. I've been experimenting with simple filtration for outdoor usage, for when the rain water isn't there. I've been using cal-mag almost since the beginning. Actually used only R.O. w/o cal-mag on my first setup and that's still my healthiest grow.

Go TB great job !

BflexNJshore said:

I am satisfied with the operation of grand central misting, however I am still bothered by the one drip during off time. Motivated today to finish root chamber. First pic is rendering of final design with the following are a breakdown of materials. One mister spraying upward in conjuction with training/trimming the roots to grow over like a cone or a spiral will be my variable.

Click to expand...

Clever set up! Looking forward to seeing it in action
I Married root pruning and noticed a lil bit of a diff they grow right back but as tb said my roots wernt try hp aero roots the had fuzz but also a lot of tap roots experiment with it on 1 plant and see if it's for you


Mike glad your liking dg in aero are u using Grow or foliage pro?in ro your going to want to use mag pro
soon enough at least I find I need it in pro mix n hydro

BflexNJshore said:

When everyone was talking about ADV's was that automatic drain valve or anti drip valve or are they one in the same?

Click to expand...

Anti drip valve, most incorporate a ball and spring but Netafim and Dan use a soft tube squished flat (closed) via a plunger and a spring from the side.
Congrats on "Mist Central"

Just took delivery of the summer upgrade for my outdoor system.. its a behemoth

That's a nice accumulator, congrats mate

Thanks Trichy, i wish i could`ve grabbed the other two

PetFlora said:

This is how I 'solved' it. It's grating from overhead florescent light panels

I have no problems trimming the roots so they never reach the bottom

Mist heads have been repositioned since taking this pic.


View attachment 2196243

Click to expand...

How did I ever pass over this?!? Organite or some shit. Ahh, yeah man, that's crazy talk.

Atomizer said:

Thanks Trichy, i wish i could`ve grabbed the other two

Click to expand...

Have read your posts, and you are a great. Can you point me to articles about TDS testers and PPM's of nutrients? Want to know how to do my own 2 or 3 part system, for hydro nutrients, and how to determine delivered amounts, without having it professionally tested.

Mike Young said:

How did I ever pass over this?!? Organite or some shit. Ahh, yeah man, that's crazy talk.

Click to expand...

Don't be so quick to judge - it's just his way of saying his system "rocks" I got some rock hard organite for you Mikey!

zatoichi2 said:

Have read your posts, and you are a great. Can you point me to articles about TDS testers and PPM's of nutrients? Want to know how to do my own 2 or 3 part system, for hydro nutrients, and how to determine delivered amounts, without having it professionally tested.

Click to expand...

I realize you are addressing Atomizer on this one, but fyi in the meanwhile there are nute calculators out there, google for "hydrobuddy" which is fairly complex and very comprehensive, or the "CannaStats" one is good and quite user friendly... They should help

Cool thread, just finished reading. Building my new rig as we speak, (just waiting for my hydrostatic pump). Been run tag for awhile, a lil different than the standard..... a grocery store closed a few years ago, got all the misting systems and put em to use. Worked well, but not going to spend all the $$$ to keep it going, much more expensive than the standard, and hard to find low flow nozzles, had to put my misters pretty far away to get proper saturation, so it didn't work to we'll on "trees", good on clone to fower. Currently have 2 custom 2'x4'x2' chambers housing 2 plants each, am toying with mist placement using my 6800. Am testing purple digs, cloudtops, and biocontrols. I like how the biocontrols "spread", like tf said, the mist floats better with these. Also am going to try running my tag setup under 3 inda-gro par 420's. Am testing a par 200 against my 6bulb t5, and the 200 is by far superior, although it doesn't look as bright, the par spectrum really seems to stimulate rapid growth.

Hi Ralph, the world of HP-aero has come quite a long way from TAG imho. Hopefully you will enjoy the benefits of the way we're trying to do things here. So, you must've seen John Guests posts on using the manual hydrostatic pump, was a pretty smart way to do things and I considered it myself. You could run a system like that anywhere for months off a 12v marine battery I'd expect. Throw a small solar panel on and guerrila grow HP in the forest somewhere... Then again I think a 20 watt solar panel would probably power that 6800 you have too. Anyway, glad to see you here and look forward to seeing how you come along with your system, please keep us updated.

Your chambers sound decent sized, which is good because some people try to get away with smallish chambers with varying degrees of success. How many of the nozzles are you going to try getting away with in them?

Ya, been doing the hpa/tag for awhile, had to cheat a lilbit due to the grocery store pressures being much higher with higher flow rates. I was getting good results with 3'x3' per plant, although still having to deal with a lil saturation. I'm not sure what you mean about john guest, I use there fittings, but have used test pumps on lpa/accumulator setups for awhile, using dual 12v deep cycles as you said. I use the 6800 for cloning, and another for veg. Have to say this thread was/is pretty good, didn't know the difference between all the nozzle being that I was using a high pressure stainless steel system. This build is kinda a tester, LOL. Not sure if I like having more than 1 plant per pod, but I'lil be running a nice high yielding indica a buddy in Cali sent me called starfighter. Its alien chem x alien og. Have been really interested in your as thread. Don't check out forums much, so I haven't heard much about it, way cool. And for chamber size, I learned this by throwing my HP misting system in 5x5 PVC, and at crops end the couple plants furthest from the Mister were taking over the chamber, and had nicer roots, (not fuzzy, but not nft). So after that I started building my own chambers.

Like the new picture. Is that from your cloner or the AA rig? Either way, looks very like an atomizer pic so that's pretty badass.

I hate to beat a dead horse to death but I can't say enough about dyna-gro! I don't think I'll be changing anytime soon. Feel like taking my guard down for a second and showing y'all what I gots goin. This thing has perked right up since introducing the DG.

Question about low ppms involved here and flavor? Is there any truth that flavor is improved over something running say, 2500ppm? I don't know that I've ever heard conclusive evidence saying either way. I know it's a bit subjective, as dif strokes, etc...

ive noticed different nutrients affect flavor alot more than ppms. although i give em what they need, which is magnified in hpa. youll probably notice a difference in flavor between hg, and dg. i always can taste gh flora, others say im crazy, lol.