TRUMP CONVICTED

MtRainDog

Well-Known Member
How to avoid being prosecuted for committing financial records fraud in order to cover up a different crime? Don't do it.

Regarding the question about the NDA being a legal fee. That was brought up in Trump's trial and shot down with a heavy load of evidence. The convicted felon has the right to appeal, which he will. Trump will have several shots at appealing this. But there is a shit ton of evidence that shows he's guilty, so for now, he's correctly referred to as felon Trump. Adjudicated rapist, adjudicated tax fraud, convicted felon Donald Trump.

Who are complaining about this hypothetical "legal risk"? The same people complaining about Trump being held accountable in a court of law. With loads of evidence and juries consisting of people like you and me are having no difficulty producing a guilty verdict after reviewing the evidence and testimony. There was a mountain of evidence presented by the prosecution to the jury to prove their case. Trump's defense team produced nothing of substance to discredit the prosecution's case. Trump will appeal and it's going to take years before this case is finally settled.

The argument you are making regarding legal risk does sound scary and it's not as if it's never happened in the history of human justice systems. People who are accused of crimes are at times not being given a fair chance to defend themselves. We do have examples of this happening in the US and I agree we need to do better to ensure innocent people are not charged with crimes for no good reason. But is this a valid example of justice gone amok? Maybe Republicans should pick a different person to use the argument you are making regarding "legal risk". Trump doesn't seem to be a good example.
The risk is a further weakening of our legal and electoral systems. I 100% acknowledge that Trump had more than contributed his fair share to the erosion of civic faith in this country. On that count he is without question guilty in my mind. I’m talking about the further escalation here during the appeals process potentially setting this country up for a showdown between the courts and the electoral process. I understand most of you are liberal minded, as am I, but there’s good reason most judges would not hear this case, simply because they understood the can of worms it was going to open. In the end, what good did this trial do? To prove a point about no one is above the law? Job well done then. But realistically it will only serve to strengthen the resolve of both political hemispheres. And if he does win the election, it won’t matter anyway other than a footnote in history books. And scarier yet to think of possible retributions thanks to the new chapter of history we’ve created. Job well done America?

You are right though, he broke laws and should be held responsible in some fashion. The answer then in my mind is for people to wake up and stop allowing these asshats to gain power over us. This is our country and we should demand better candidates, and transparency, and make these politicians kiss our asses to restore civic faith.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
At the end of the panel discussion, Scott Jennings simply dug in his heels, denied all evidence that conflicted with the party line he presented and then doubled down with the final act that fascists around the world fall back upon when confronted with the truth about their lies. He retreated to a position of menace and threats. He said:

"This is going to unify the Republican Party.
"Go right ahead " (throw Trump in jail).
"I'd like to see you deal with the consequences of that."
:fire:
See my long post following. They actually said it out loud:
“… the principle of the rule of law and equal justice must be balanced with avoiding the plague of criminalization of the political process that has blighted other systems around the world and throughout history.”

(great wet thudding sound)

The GOP expressly repudiates the rule of law when it becomes inconvenient. The corruption of the party is complete.
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
The risk is a further weakening of our legal and electoral systems. I 100% acknowledge that Trump had more than contributed his fair share to the erosion of civic faith in this country. On that count he is without question guilty in my mind. I’m talking about the further escalation here during the appeals process potentially setting this country up for a showdown between the courts and the electoral process. I understand most of you are liberal minded, as am I, but there’s good reason most judges would not hear this case, simply because they understood the can of worms it was going to open. In the end, what good did this trial do? To prove a point about no one is above the law? Job well done then. But realistically it will only serve to strengthen the resolve of both political hemispheres. And if he does win the election, it won’t matter anyway other than a footnote in history books. And scarier yet to think of possible retributions thanks to the new chapter of history we’ve created. Job well done America?

You are right though, he broke laws and should be held responsible in some fashion. The answer then in my mind is for people to wake up and stop allowing these asshats to gain power over us. This is our country and we should demand better candidates, and transparency, and make these politicians kiss our asses to restore civic faith.
bolded 1: This will not be achieved until dozens of people in Congress and leading certain executive institutions (see above about the Secret Service) are tried

and the treason bloc within the appellate courts is neutralized and brought before criminal court.

Bolded 2: this has been made difficult by the relentless dissemination of propaganda and disinformation (much originating in hostile foreign powers like Russia, China and Iran) into “news” outlets like those operated by Murdochs.

It is a sentiment debunked by the large portion of the voting public that has been told that 2 = 3 for so long that they cannot tell where fact ends and bs begins.

(It is worth repeating that 2 ≠ 3 — even for very large values of 2.)
 

CANON_Grow

Well-Known Member
I understand most of you are liberal minded, as am I, but there’s good reason most judges would not hear this case, simply because they understood the can of worms it was going to open.
Can you explain what made you come to the conclusion that most judges would not hear this case? I don't agree with that statement and haven't seen anything that would make me believe differently, but open to the idea that it's possible.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
The risk is a further weakening of our legal and electoral systems. I 100% acknowledge that Trump had more than contributed his fair share to the erosion of civic faith in this country. On that count he is without question guilty in my mind. I’m talking about the further escalation here during the appeals process potentially setting this country up for a showdown between the courts and the electoral process. I understand most of you are liberal minded, as am I, but there’s good reason most judges would not hear this case, simply because they understood the can of worms it was going to open. In the end, what good did this trial do? To prove a point about no one is above the law? Job well done then. But realistically it will only serve to strengthen the resolve of both political hemispheres. And if he does win the election, it won’t matter anyway other than a footnote in history books. And scarier yet to think of possible retributions thanks to the new chapter of history we’ve created. Job well done America?

You are right though, he broke laws and should be held responsible in some fashion. The answer then in my mind is for people to wake up and stop allowing these asshats to gain power over us. This is our country and we should demand better candidates, and transparency, and make these politicians kiss our asses to restore civic faith.
To the bolded text. An asshat WAS elected to office, he committed crimes and the third constitutionally authorized body of government is required to take action. What Trump has done goes beyond politics and is now a judicial matter. We've gone past the time when your "answer" can be applied and are now dealing with the consequences of a corrupt man who gained the highest political office in this country.

So, yes, it's up to the electorate to choose good leaders. But a bad one was elected, he corruptly broke laws in order to suppress information so that he could win. And our justice system IS at risk but not because the judicial process is being followed. It's at risk because an asshat has not been held accountable for his crimes and prevented from taking office ever again.

Regarding your first paragraph. I don't understand your argument. Do you think that giving Trump or any other political leader immunity from crimes he commits before, during or after he holds office to be an acceptable solution to your concerns? Would that not weaken our legal and electoral systems?

Regarding the statement "most judges would not hear this case". This wasn't a decision for a judge to make. Judge Merchan was assigned this case after the DA's office investigated, their lawyers convinced Alvin Bragg that convening a grand jury on the matter was warranted, a grand jury of ordinary people reviewed the evidence and testimony, the grand jury recommended that Trump be indicted and Bragg decided that prosecution was warranted. Alvin Bragg is an elected official and granted the power to make that decision by the people of NY. So, this isn't a matter of a judge deciding to hear the case. A process was followed to avoid the kind of broken justice you imply. Not only that but after a fair trial, Donald Trump was convicted by unanimous verdict of the jury on all 34 counts. The appeals process is not an undue burden on the justice system and every convicted felon has the right to appeal a jury's verdict.

On the other hand, The People have the right to see justice done when crimes against them are committed. I'm not willing to cede my right to that any more than I'm willing to cede the rights of criminal defendants to a speedy and fair trial and the right to appeal the outcome of that trial if they are found guilty.
 
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hanimmal

Well-Known Member
The risk is a further weakening of our legal and electoral systems. I 100% acknowledge that Trump had more than contributed his fair share to the erosion of civic faith in this country. On that count he is without question guilty in my mind.
The 200 (give or take) trolls Trump appointed to the federal benches are what I am worried about weakening our systems.


I’m talking about the further escalation here during the appeals process potentially setting this country up for a showdown between the courts and the electoral process.
I think this fell apart with Citizens United and ever since it has been a full on court press for the rich dickheads (foreign and domestic) using propaganda to tear us apart and crying about escalation when they already set the house on fire over and over again.

I understand most of you are liberal minded,
I think you'd be surprised.


but there’s good reason most judges would not hear this case, simply because they understood the can of worms it was going to open.
I don't understand this part, most judges wouldn't hear this case because Trump didn't break these laws in their districts. I have not heard this before you bring it up and I am actually curious about this.

In the end, what good did this trial do?
Brought a spoiled rich brat who has been breaking the law his entire life to account in the crimes that they were able to prove?

To prove a point about no one is above the law? Job well done then.
Isnt that pretty much why anyone gets brought to court?

But realistically it will only serve to strengthen the resolve of both political hemispheres.
Nah I don't think it does anything to strengthen the resolve of the Democratic Party.

Politically at the end of the day I think it really just shows how truly pathetic the GQP bootlickers are trying to spin this using the same language Putin is to troll the people they are conning.

And if he does win the election, it won’t matter anyway other than a footnote in history books. And scarier yet to think of possible retributions thanks to the new chapter of history we’ve created. Job well done America?
If he wins the stain won't be on the fact that Trump is a convicted criminal that is the chapter we would help to create, it is being dumb enough to collectively give this idiot back power.

You are right though, he broke laws and should be held responsible in some fashion. The answer then in my mind is for people to wake up and stop allowing these asshats to gain power over us. This is our country and we should demand better candidates, and transparency, and make these politicians kiss our asses to restore civic faith.
The Republican Party really needs to wake up and follow your advice.

The ability to troll so that they can 'own the libs' on their favorite propaganda media should not be what wins their support.
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
loved this bit in the article you linked to:

Look, I’m no political strategist, but I’m not sure putting the presidential candidate who was just convicted on 34 felony counts in front of cameras to ramble like the drunk at the end of the bar for more than 30 minutes was a fantastic idea. Trump’s disjointed gurgling delivered several "In-A-Gadda-Da-Vida"-length ads for Democrats to use in the months ahead.

Gimme more shambling, rambling Trump. For the good of this country, PLEASE keep him front and center in the public's eye.
I’ve been thinking about the gag order & his persistent intent: it’s got me thinking that he *should* be jailed for three days…in solitary confinement.

THEN let him hold a rally - I’ll bet there’ll only be shreds left of him after screaming his soil dry into the silence for so long

A very public meltdown not even his most rabid faithful can spin.
That’s what *I* want
 

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
From the same Politico piece, an observation made by Julia Azari,*professor of political science at Marquette University.

But Trump’s actions fit into a larger project of dishonesty and lawlessness when it comes to elections (…)


(might as well quote the get of serpents directly. Behold the blueprint for fascist takeover.)

With the Biden administration half over and with the immediate dangers inherent to one-party rule in Washington behind us for now, it’s past time to lay the groundwork for a White House more friendly to the right. For decades, as the left has continued its march through America’s institutions, conservatives have been outgunned and outmatched when it comes to the art of government.

One reason is because the Republican establishment never moved on from the 1980s. Beltway conservatives still prioritize supply-side economics and a bellicose foreign policy above all else. “Belief in small government,” strangely enough, has manifested itself in a belief among some conservatives that we should lead by example and not fill all political appointments. Belief in the primacy of the national security state has caused conservative administrations to defer political decisions to the generals and the intelligence community.

The result has been decades of disappointment.

Fortunately, this situation is changing. The conservative movement increasingly knows what time it is in America. More and more of our politicians are willing to use the government to achieve our vision, because the neutrality of “keeping the government out of it” will lose every time to the left’s vast power. The calls for a “new Church Committee” represent a momentous shift in energy; while conservatives used to lament liberal Sen. Frank Church’s original project as a kooky leftist attack against “The Brave Men And Women of Our Intelligence Community,” we’re now the ones agitating for Congress to go after the three-letter agencies.

This new vigor of the right can be found at Project 2025. Organized by the Heritage Foundation, Project 2025 has brought together 45 (and counting) right-of-center organizations that are ready to get into the business of restoring this country through the combination of the right policies and well-trained people. The Project’s foundation is built on four interconnected pillars.

>>> Project 2025: Presidential Transition Project

The first pillar, the upcoming production of the policy book Mandate for Leadership, represents the work of more than 350 leading conservatives and outlines a vision of conservative success at each federal agency during the next administration. Presidential candidates won’t be able to ignore what the conservative movement demands in this book.

The second is our online personnel database. This “Conservative LinkedIn” will launch in March and will provide an opportunity for rock-solid conservatives to place themselves in contention for roles in the next administration. This pillar will bring Mr. (and Mrs.) Smith to Washington.

The third is our Presidential Administration Academy. When conservatives do finally make it into an administration, they often don’t know what to do or how to seize the gears of power effectively. Through their action, inaction, and their encyclopedic knowledge of volumes of technicalities about the federal workforce, certain career federal employees are masterful in tripping us up. Our interactive, on-demand training sessions will change that. They will turn future conservative political appointees into experts in governmental effectiveness.

The fourth and final pillar of Project 2025 is our Playbook, which will take the policy ideas expressed in Mandate for Leadership and transform them into an implementation plan for each agency to advocate to the incoming administration. What regulations and executive orders must be signed on Day One? Where are the greatest needs for more political appointees? How can we effectively use the mechanisms of government to face our most challenging problems? Our Playbook will put our movement to work answering questions like these.

In November 2016, American conservatives stood on the verge of greatness. The election of Donald Trump to the presidency was a triumph that offered the best chance to reverse the left’s incessant march of progress for its own sake. Many of the best accomplishments, though, happened only in the last year of the Trump administration, after our political appointees had finally figured out the policies and process of different agencies, and after the right personnel were finally in place.

The usual suspects in the permanent political class will be ready for the next conservative administration. Will we be ready for them? That’s where Project 2025 comes in. We have two years, and one chance, to get this right.

This piece originally appeared in The American Conservative

Emphases mine.
1) actually, those dangers are not coming from Democrats.

2) ready and willing to midwife a transition to minority rule.

3) the totalitarian bellwether lie. Small government is weak government. Once they stage the culmination of their ongoing coup, does anyone seriously believe that we will live in a world of small government? Heckno.

Small government is not up to the task of establishing the spy network (think KGB, who had 1 in 3 Soviet citizens reporting on the other two) that will root out the sexually, ethnically and economically wrong.

4) that is a matter of lively opinion.

5) to prosecute the coup against a republic

6) The name of the organization whose goal is to return this nation to the time when the only voters were white male evangelical landholders and often slavers.

7) the new euphemism for organizations so far to the right that their primary complaint about Nazi Germany was an insufficiency of commitment.

8 ) see point 6. Add “loudly professing their virtuous heterosexuality” while concealing their actual appetites.

9) No Presidential candidate has been able to do so since someone shot some Kennedys.

10) Color-by-numbers (number by colors?) fascism — so easy anyone can do it!

11) on the verge of disenfranchisement.

12) A hamfisted attempt to discredit very real liberal progress toward building out a Federal government by, for and of all the people, not just America’s de facto Aryans.

Folks, we have been granted a look into the authoritarian playbook. I hope we can vote the snake-bastards out over the next few election cycles.

*Spellcheck insisted her surname is Atari.
 
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doublejj

Well-Known Member

Donald Trump had lots of negative opinions about felons. Now he is one.

From roughing up suspects to revoking bail, the 34-count felon has suggested harsh treatment for his fellow criminals
 

Bagginski

Well-Known Member
From the same Politico piece, an observation made by Julia Azari,*professor of political science at Marquette University.

But Trump’s actions fit into a larger project of dishonesty and lawlessness when it comes to elections (…)


(might as well quote the get of serpents directly. Behold the blueprint for fascist takeover.)

With the Biden administration half over and with the immediate dangers inherent to one-party rule in Washington behind us for now, it’s past time to lay the groundwork for a White House more friendly to the right. For decades, as the left has continued its march through America’s institutions, conservatives have been outgunned and outmatched when it comes to the art of government.

One reason is because the Republican establishment never moved on from the 1980s. Beltway conservatives still prioritize supply-side economics and a bellicose foreign policy above all else. “Belief in small government,” strangely enough, has manifested itself in a belief among some conservatives that we should lead by example and not fill all political appointments. Belief in the primacy of the national security state has caused conservative administrations to defer political decisions to the generals and the intelligence community.

The result has been decades of disappointment.

Fortunately, this situation is changing. The conservative movement increasingly knows what time it is in America. More and more of our politicians are willing to use the government to achieve our vision, because the neutrality of “keeping the government out of it” will lose every time to the left’s vast power. The calls for a “new Church Committee” represent a momentous shift in energy; while conservatives used to lament liberal Sen. Frank Church’s original project as a kooky leftist attack against “The Brave Men And Women of Our Intelligence Community,” we’re now the ones agitating for Congress to go after the three-letter agencies.

This new vigor of the right can be found at Project 2025. Organized by the Heritage Foundation, Project 2025 has brought together 45 (and counting) right-of-center organizations that are ready to get into the business of restoring this country through the combination of the right policies and well-trained people. The Project’s foundation is built on four interconnected pillars.

>>> Project 2025: Presidential Transition Project

The first pillar, the upcoming production of the policy book Mandate for Leadership, represents the work of more than 350 leading conservatives and outlines a vision of conservative success at each federal agency during the next administration. Presidential candidates won’t be able to ignore what the conservative movement demands in this book.

The second is our online personnel database. This “Conservative LinkedIn” will launch in March and will provide an opportunity for rock-solid conservatives to place themselves in contention for roles in the next administration. This pillar will bring Mr. (and Mrs.) Smith to Washington.

The third is our Presidential Administration Academy. When conservatives do finally make it into an administration, they often don’t know what to do or how to seize the gears of power effectively. Through their action, inaction, and their encyclopedic knowledge of volumes of technicalities about the federal workforce, certain career federal employees are masterful in tripping us up. Our interactive, on-demand training sessions will change that. They will turn future conservative political appointees into experts in governmental effectiveness.

The fourth and final pillar of Project 2025 is our Playbook, which will take the policy ideas expressed in Mandate for Leadership and transform them into an implementation plan for each agency to advocate to the incoming administration. What regulations and executive orders must be signed on Day One? Where are the greatest needs for more political appointees? How can we effectively use the mechanisms of government to face our most challenging problems? Our Playbook will put our movement to work answering questions like these.

In November 2016, American conservatives stood on the verge of greatness. The election of Donald Trump to the presidency was a triumph that offered the best chance to reverse the left’s incessant march of progress for its own sake. Many of the best accomplishments, though, happened only in the last year of the Trump administration, after our political appointees had finally figured out the policies and process of different agencies, and after the right personnel were finally in place.

The usual suspects in the permanent political class will be ready for the next conservative administration. Will we be ready for them? That’s where Project 2025 comes in. We have two years, and one chance, to get this right.

This piece originally appeared in The American Conservative

Emphases mine.
1) actually, those dangers are not coming from Democrats.

2) ready and willing to midwife a transition to minority rule.

3) the totalitarian bellwether lie. Small government is weak government. Once they stage the culmination of their ongoing coup, does anyone seriously believe that we will live in a world of small government? Heckno.

Small government is not up to the task of establishing the spy network (think KGB, who had 1 in 3 Soviet citizens reporting on the other two) that will root out the sexually, ethnically and economically wrong.

4) that is a matter of lively opinion.

5) to prosecute the coup against a republic

6) The name of the organization whose goal is to return this nation to the time when the only voters were white male evangelical landholders and often slavers.

7) the new euphemism for organizations so far to the right that their primary complaint about Nazi Germany was an insufficiency of commitment.

8 ) see point 6. Add “loudly professing their virtuous heterosexuality” while concealing their actual appetites.

9) No Presidential candidate has been able to do so since someone shot some Kennedys.

10) Color-by-numbers (number by colors?) fascism — so easy anyone can do it!

11) on the verge of disenfranchisement.

12) A hamfisted attempt to discredit very real liberal progress toward building out a Federal government by, for and of all the people, not just America’s de facto Aryans.

Folks, we have been granted a look into the authoritarian playbook. I hope we can vote the snake-bastards out over the next few election cycles.

*Spellcheck insisted her surname is Atari.
Always slightly amazed to see the fervor with which fascist radicals have hijacked & redefined “conservatism” itself (?)…& dragged ‘true believers’ of various stripes into conflict with their core principles, using psyops developed by our adversaries
 

1212ham

Well-Known Member
What are the next steps in the case?
Sentencing and an appeal are up next in this case.
Sentencing by Justice Juan Merchan is scheduled for July 11. Before that date, a probation officer or someone in that department will interview Trump, and potentially others involved in the case or connected to Trump, and prepare a pre-sentence report for the judge. The report includes the personal history and criminal record of the defendant, and it recommends what sentence the defendant should receive, according to the New York State Unified Court System
 

CCGNZ

Well-Known Member
No dissent to your particulars, but his wild ride tends to eclipse the grim reality that the GOP was on an antirepublican trajectory long before he and his cossacks tore the mask of decency off an already indecent (in its previously less-disclosed migration to power over principle) political party and movement.

Now that he blew through every tatter of genteel camouflage, note how the rest of the party is celebrating his authoritarian intentions and demands. This is only possible because he is not the cause of the party’s tyrannical program, but its effect.

Project 2025 lays it all bare. They are telling us directly who they are, and obstructing his prosecutions has precisely dick to do with his guilt or innocence.
It’s more about that, after decades of laying the groundwork, the neoliberals/fascists can taste victory. We are coming into the full-court* press stage of the plan.


*notably including the stacked Scotus
I'm flabbergasted by this nations current state of affairs,seems we're wanting for a new generation of PATRIOTS, where are backbones,common sense,pragmatism,negotiation through give/take,general congeniality,and a moral ground floor????,and above all loyalty to the oath of allegiance to our Constitution that demands COUNTRY OVER PARTY when confronted w/blatant front door attacks pissing all over the rule of law and our democracy in general. What is currently happening is comforting only to US enemies foreign and domestic.
 
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