Vertical lighting/scrog, should i switch from fluoro's to Metal Halide?

Hey RUI,

Pictures of my set up are as follows:
1. Full flower chamber
2. Full veg chamber
3. Cloning rack
4. Flowering plant shot

Quick question, Should i switch from 60 watts standard fluoro tubes to 50w metal halide?

i have 4 standard 15 w tubes, and the light i'm looking at is this one

http://www.lowes.com/lowes/lkn?action=productDetail&productId=156847-52757-DC209H-28&lpage=none

If I were to switch, I will be remote ballasting and cool tubing the light like the current hps, and plumbing it together with the current cool tube in my grow. I will create a 90 degree bend in the ducting from the one cool tube to the other so as no light spills through the ducting to the flowering chamber. Then i would upgrade my current 110 cfm pc fan that is extracting from the cool tube to a nice spiffy 220 cfm pc fan to deal with the added static pressure of the longer ducting on a speed controller to deal with the noise. Also i would switch one or two of the current fluoro tubes to above the cloning rack that is on the right side of the veg chamber.

Ok all that said, i know that lumens and efficiency are much greater when the two options are compared. Also the added heat should not be a problem as i am completely removing it from the grow room via one long cool tube.

My question is will the growth rate be significantly better to warrant the switch?

I'm weary because i grew that fine plant in the flowering chamber with only those fluoros in 4 weeks time from cloning. So i'm not sure whether or not i will need the extra lumens when i'm already getting a pretty nice growth rate from the fluoros.

Any help would be greatly appreciated. I guess i'm just looking for someone to verify that i should do the upgrade bc i'm drooling over that super cheap 50w metal halide and ballast for $44.

Oh on a side note wally world has a similar solution with a 100 w metal halide security light that i could remote ballast for $68. Does anyone think that i should spring the extra $24 for the extra 50 watts?

I'm currently running a 150w hps remote ballasted and would really love to dial in my veg and flower times to maintain a perpetual 4 week difference between each plant i have. So getting the right amount of growth during the 4 week veg to allow the entire screen to get filled during the 8 weeks flower is what i'm aiming for.

Thanks to anyone in advance.

Bump

Haha no one ever wants to reply to my posts. I think they're too long for people to read at first. I'll have to work on that.

Anyone have any input? Just lookin for "GO FOR IT!" or "Don't bother."

Bump.

No one even wants to try?

There's no wrong answer here as i'm just asking for opinions.

smoote1987 said:

Bump.

No one even wants to try?

There's no wrong answer here as i'm just asking for opinions.

Click to expand...

go for the hid. if you are cool tubing it, there no need to worry about temps. Just a little extra electrical bill.

Check this site too, for good prices on ballasts:

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/metal-halide-ballast-kits-c-357_250.html

Saw your pics, I got the michael's cool tube as well....haha.

I'm doing a scrog too, just horizontal, I'm not all fancy like you.

Whats up bud, First of all you are starting a real debate over floro vs metal halide. It all boils down to you and what you want. You have to weigh the pros and cons
In my opinion floros are great!! They are cheep to buy and cheeper to run. They will run cooler than hid light. I have been using floros for the past 8 months for my veg chamber with no problems. but like I said its up to you.

jigfresh said:

go for the hid. if you are cool tubing it, there no need to worry about temps. Just a little extra electrical bill.

Check this site too, for good prices on ballasts:

http://www.plantlightinghydroponics.com/metal-halide-ballast-kits-c-357_250.html

Click to expand...

Thanks for the reply Jig. I knew there was life out there.

Thanks for the link. I looked around and the prices are pretty good. It would actually be slightly cheaper to get the 100w metal halide parts from your link and assemble the light instead of buying the 100w metal halide light from wally world. It think the shipping's going to bite me in the ass though. It would also save me the work of disassembling the wally world light. Though that might have been my favorite part of the whole process.

Also do you think i need the 100w's of metal halide or would the 50w's be just as good in that very small space? Please keep in mind that with the cooltube i have now i am able to put my plants right up against it. I will be shooting for the same thing on the metal halide cool tube.

smoote1987 said:

Thanks for the reply Jig. I knew there was life out there.

Thanks for the link. I looked around and the prices are pretty good. It would actually be slightly cheaper to get the 100w metal halide parts from your link and assemble the light instead of buying the 100w metal halide light from wally world. It think the shipping's going to bite me in the ass though. It would also save me the work of disassembling the wally world light. Though that might have been my favorite part of the whole process.

Also do you think i need the 100w's of metal halide or would the 50w's be just as good in that very small space? Please keep in mind that with the cooltube i have now i am able to put my plants right up against it. I will be shooting for the same thing on the metal halide cool tube.

Click to expand...

I like doing things big, I figure if you are thinking about 50, might as well go 100... but imo 50w would probably do just fine for your little situation. Like both me and Dirtfree are saying, really up to you.

I think both would be fine, one is just twice as much. Twice the electricity used, twice the heat, twice the growth??? I'm not sure, but if you don't have huge ambitions you might not need the 100

Thanks for the reply DirtFree you really made my day today. I didn't really realize what i had said until i saw youre reply.

I've been using fluoros with great success as well. I agree with everything that you said about them. The problem is that i'm just not getting the growth rate from the 60w fluoros that i want. It's throwing off my perpetual harvest schedule by having to veg the plants longer than i want. I know its kind of an objective question but i guess i'm having attachment issues with my fluoros and am sad that i'm deciding that its finally time for them to go. I guess looking at pure stats i will have 1.5-4 times my current lumens by upgrading to either metal halide so i should expect to at least 1.5-4 times my growth rate and since my veg time is 1.5 times the length i want it to be the metal halide would put the veg time just at where i want it.... good logic? Bad logic?

the 50w metal halide i linked to is such a find though. Its 50w which is 10 watts less than the fluoros. The 50w metal halide gives off approximately 3000 lumens, the 4 fluoros together are around 2,000 lumens so thats 1.5 times more lumens for 10 watts more efficient light. I would also be removing all the heat from the grow room created by the light by cooltubing the bulb and remote ballasting the light which is something i could not do with the flouros. I mean what's not to like right?

jigfresh said:

I think both would be fine, one is just twice as much. Twice the electricity used, twice the heat, twice the growth??? I'm not sure, but if you don't have huge ambitions you might not need the 100

Click to expand...

Good point, i don't have huge ambitions just enough green to keep two moderate smokers satisfied. Thanks a lot for your input this was exactly what i was looking for.

smoote1987 said:

Good point, i don't have huge ambitions just enough green to keep two moderate smokers satisfied. Thanks a lot for your input this was exactly what i was looking for.

Click to expand...

I love this site for 3 reasons:

1. Information

2. Sharing

3. Reassurance

jigfresh said:

Saw your pics, I got the michael's cool tube as well....haha.

I'm doing a scrog too, just horizontal, I'm not all fancy like you.

Click to expand...

I must have missed this part of your post. Love it it was so cheap why wait for that bake around crap. However i always look for one when i'm out thrifting.

Yea not so much fancy as necessary. My space is so tight but so tall, it just made sense to put everting vertical. Allowed me to get the scrog to be attached to the bucket instead of mounted permanently somewhere in grow room. Which was a bitch when it came to changing the rez on the buckets. Now it just pops right out as one unit. Oh i was able to put the screen much closer to the light this way as well and wrap it around the light which completely maximized the use of my small light. But rock that horizontal scrog its how i started it just wasn't the best choice for me.

jigfresh said:

I love this site for 3 reasons:

1. Information

2. Sharing

3. Reassurance

Click to expand...

Couldn't have said it better.

smoote1987 said:

I must have missed this part of your post. Love it it was so cheap why wait for that bake around crap. However i always look for one when i'm out thrifting.

Click to expand...

Check the light I made. Idea came from Troncia... I am not creative, just handy.

https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/161300-batwing-reflector-cool-tube-40-a-4.html#post2315758

jigfresh said:

Check the light I made. Idea came from Troncia... I am not creative, just handy.

https://www.rollitup.org/do-yourself/161300-batwing-reflector-cool-tube-40-a-4.html#post2315758

Click to expand...

Total deja vu moment looking at your thread and grow room. Turns out i was looking through your thread the other day looking for solutions on how to ventilate a closet grow with out making holes in the wall. I opted for holes in wall in the end but i love having to put things back together sooo.

But yea sweet grow, and reflector. I was particularly impressed with that part of your build, it was a very nice solution and well built.

smoote two things
1. I enjoy reading your post very well written.
2. how does a vertical scrog work?
I have a 1000whps coll tubew/ detachable reflector in about 6x3.5 room andiw as planning on scrogging my 15 arura indica clones horizontally but would i stand better chance of higher yeolds doing vertical and isit easier to wrok with i.e water training im using soil btw

moose88 said:

smoote two things
1. I enjoy reading your post very well written.
2. how does a vertical scrog work?
I have a 1000whps coll tubew/ detachable reflector in about 6x3.5 room andiw as planning on scrogging my 15 arura indica clones horizontally but would i stand better chance of higher yeolds doing vertical and isit easier to wrok with i.e water training im using soil btw

Click to expand...

Thanks a lot i try to be as detailed as possible.

whoa ok here goes...

First i have never used any lights higher than a 150 watt hps. So i do not have experience with that size light. You should search for what the proper distances from a cool tube with that size light should be from more experienced growers.

there are a lot of differences between your grow and my grow. However the scroging technique allows you do the same types of things in both grows.

What scroging allows you to do is to train your plants under low stress to grow along a predetermined plane of screen. I'm sorry if i am not being clear as its a hard concept for me to explain without showing firsthand.

This means that whatever screen that you create be it horizontal, vertical, upside down, inside out you will train your plant to it. That said you should design your screen's shape to maximize the usage of your light. Which will most definitely increase yield. This means that you must make the decision as to what shape your screen will be for your individual grow. The way i did it was to get in there and feel it out try placing my light in different ways and seeing how i could shape a screen around it. I finally ended up vertical through trial and error.

Looking at what you said you had its hard to say as i'm desperately inexperienced in most of it, but using soil you dont have to worry about changing a resevoir only upgrading to larger pots. So it is not a necessity for you to have a screen attached to each individual pot. Your light is cool tubed, assuming adequate ventilation is extracting its heat, so you should be able to get your plants rather close to the bulb its self. Your light is huge, so i question if you really need to be using an LST Technique and not just grow em el natural.

But hey man i'm not one to judge, i can't say if vertical or horizontal scroging will yield more than the other as i'd have to be in the space or have extremely accurate dimensions. Again you're gonna have to make the call on the screen's shape. I've got this funny little hunch though that with your light hung vertically in the center of the room with the plants arranged coliseum style around the light grown SOG will prove to be the easiest maintenance for amount of yield in your situation. Other perqs are no screens to get in the way of watering your plants. Your plants aren't bound to a screen to they are able to be transplanted or moved easily. ALOT LESS MAINTENANCE!

Take everything i said with a grain of salt and do not rely any critical prat of your grow on my statements as i said before i do not have specific experience with your grow and equipment.

Haha your homework is:

• Look up coliseum and scrog (vert and horiz) growing techniques
• Decide which training method you want to use or not use
• Design your training method to have a shape that allows for the maxization of your light. This for me entailed allowing the same intensity of light to fall on all parts of my plants from top to bottom.

Ok thats all i've got for now. Let me know if i missed any of your questions

Good answer man.

moose88... if I were you I would not do a scrog. It would be a lot of work for a room that size. My screen is kicking my ass and it is 2'x3'. This is my first grow, but I feel safe saying a scrog is worth the work you put into it. You could throw a screen to cover your plant and let it go, but to make the screen work its best is a lot of hands on work. Holy crap, I just read your post again... 15 clones under a screen would be waaaayyyyy toooooo much work... If you really wanted a screen you could use 4 clones and veg them 8 weeks and fill the whole screen up.

A small stadium type grow might work well, depending on the configuration of the closet you are working with, where the door is and such. That would mean more plants and some construction... I think it would totally be worth it if you are up to it. I also don't know how you feel about having more plants than fewer depending on laws where you are.

I would think with a 1000w the easiest thing would be to supercrop/ lst the thing, it will keep it shorter and expose more budsites to the light. But yeah, I just saw the 15 clones part. I would do a stadium type thing. You can use bricks.

Here is a pick of fdd2blk's grow so you can see what we are talking about


ps. you got my 500th post. Prize is in the mail (just don't hold your breath)

jigfresh said:

Good answer man.

moose88... if I were you I would not do a scrog. It would be a lot of work for a room that size. My screen is kicking my ass and it is 2'x3'. This is my first grow, but I feel safe saying a scrog is worth the work you put into it. You could throw a screen to cover your plant and let it go, but to make the screen work its best is a lot of hands on work. Holy crap, I just read your post again... 15 clones under a screen would be waaaayyyyy toooooo much work... If you really wanted a screen you could use 4 clones and veg them 8 weeks and fill the whole screen up.

A small stadium type grow might work well, depending on the configuration of the closet you are working with, where the door is and such. That would mean more plants and some construction... I think it would totally be worth it if you are up to it. I also don't know how you feel about having more plants than fewer depending on laws where you are.

I would think with a 1000w the easiest thing would be to supercrop/ lst the thing, it will keep it shorter and expose more budsites to the light. But yeah, I just saw the 15 clones part. I would do a stadium type thing. You can use bricks.

Here is a pick of fdd2blk's grow so you can see what we are talking about


ps. you got my 500th post. Prize is in the mail (just don't hold your breath)

Click to expand...

I'm honored.

thanks for the back up man he came at me outta left field with that question

Thank you forthe resaponse! I know it was a beasty question as for scrogging I AM GOING TO DO IT the dimensions are in feet incase there was confusion didn't seem to be any. I also think 15 clones is was to many but the women thinks otherwise this isnt my first grow nor am i stranger to LST or suppercrping both excellent techniques but the scrogg is pulling me in so apppealing just rows of tops any who im sticking with the horizontal as i have no clue how to do vertical its seemed way cool though! as for the shape of my screen it is going to be similar to fdd stadium still im trying to find the image of the light distrabution of the 1k hps so i can apply itto my room and venting the light isnt so big deal coiuple holes in the wall blah w/e but your answer was most helpful and as for all natural reason i wantto scrog is to add to my yeild and I LOVE HANDS ON i get all jittery when i get to use my hands the extra work is just goingto be another fruit of my labor


as for the prize im also happy to have warented the 500th posting! i will keep you update on progress but it willbe some time before i get thigns going maybe a few weeks need to get them into final pots figure out drainage situatrion as i cant take them out and water or to flush to i have to adress that first any ideas??...

moose88 said:

it willbe some time before i get thigns going maybe a few weeks need to get them into final pots figure out drainage situatrion as i cant take them out and water or to flush to i have to adress that first any ideas??...

Click to expand...

Awesome going for the scrog... you are doing it for the same reasons I did it.

One suggestion, two benefits... I would set the pots up on something that would elevate them enough, so that you could get some sort of tray below them allowing you to collect run off and drain into a bucket to pour out, or hook to a hose to feed a drain.

Also this would raise the plants up, raising the screen.... You will spend much time right at screen level. I feel like my screen is at the absolute worst height to work on, it is too tall to knell and work on, but too short to stand, so I have become accustom to stooping and my back hates me for it.

If you want ideas on actual parts to be used I could offer that too, but I don't want to take the fun of design away from you.