Video shows Arizona officer ramming into robbery suspect

budlover13 said:
My immediate neighbors know that if I hear a commotion i'm coming over with a long gun and a handgun to check their well-being. Not one of the 4 houses protested. Actually, 3 of 4 said they would reciprocate. And the 4th is an 80 year old woman Lol.
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A lot of the guys on this site get jacked up when they see violent videos like this or ones where cops are doing a criminal beat down. Then some fantasize to us about what they would do. Like it or not, civilians have guns and way too many of them like to imagine what they would do with them -- in the name of justice. Studies have shown that civilians are prone to make poor decisions if confronted with a shoot or no shoot situation. Not saying that @budlover13 is one of them. I think I've seen another post by him describe very well what true gun safety looks like. But there are lot more people out there that don't have enough training to be trusted in the situation he describes than people that can be trusted.. I just wish that people who own firearms get better training in gun safety and situational awareness,

budlover13 said:
No Zimmerman shit would come from me. I have trigger discipline and carry no chips on my shoulder.

But, should one of my neighbors had felt the same as you, I would respect that. That's why I discussed it with them ahead of time.

If someone wishes to not be defended by me, I'mm honor their decision. I'm just glad my neighbors were like-minded. It expands my perimeter defenses.
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I don't think the lesson from Zimmerman should be ignored. Lots of people piled onto Z's defense and took his word as gospel, which I'm sure Z thought vindicated his actions. Turns out that Z was a violent asshole. a wife beater, a drunk driver and overall a menacing character. Its your word that you aren't lkie him. ooookaaaayyyy....

As an aside, time will tell if the cop in this incident turns out to be a Zimmerman with a badge...or not.
 
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Fogdog said:
A lot of the guys on this site get jacked up when they see violent videos like this or ones where cops are doing a criminal beat down. Then some fantasize to us about what they would do. Like it or not, civilians have guns and way too many of them like to imagine what they would do with them -- in the name of justice. Studies have shown that civilians are prone to make poor decisions if confronted with a shoot or no shoot situation. Not saying that @budlover13 is one of them. I think I've seen another post by him describe very well what true gun safety looks like. But there are lot more people out there that don't have enough training to be trusted in the situation he describes than people that can be trusted.. I just wish that people who own firearms get better training in gun safety and situational awareness,



I don't think the lesson from Zimmerman should be ignored. Lots of people piled onto Z's defense and took his word as gospel, which I'm sure Z thought vindicated his actions. Turns out that Z was a violent asshole. a wife beater, a drunk driver and overall a menacing character. Its your word that you aren't lkie him. ooookaaaayyyy....

As an aside, time will tell if the cop in this incident turns out to be a Zimmerman with a badge...or not.
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I agree, more training would be nice. I've had my share of training and continue to train as I can afford to do so. There is no such thing as too much training when dealing with potentially lethal tools such as cars, heavy equipment, aircraft, and yes, firearms. Unfortunately, those that constantly practice with tools other than firearms are called professionals while those that do so with firearms are called nuts. There are nuts in all walks of life.



I would hope that nobody would fantasize about taking a life but I know there is a percentage that will.

As for Z, I know a few alcoholic assholes that still aren't bad people and some of them are quite proficient with firearms and safety.

That being said, I wish there had been a witness in the Z case with a video camera like in SC.

Sometimes, all a man has is his word.
 
Fogdog said:
I just wish that people who own cars get better training in traffic safety and situational awareness.
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I changed it some, but I know exactly what you mean.

in 2013 there were about 32,700 motor vehicle deaths.

in 2013 there were about 17,000 deaths by illicit drug overdose

in 2013 there were about 600 accidental shooting deaths.

Gun Owners? Hell no. Car owners. Just imagine if we made everyone a safe driver?

For every one accidental discharge death, there are 60 people smashed in a car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/causes_of_death#sthash.NBkdyVT0.dpbs
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm
 
NoDrama said:
I changed it some, but I know exactly what you mean.

in 2013 there were about 32,700 motor vehicle deaths.

in 2013 there were about 17,000 deaths by illicit drug overdose

in 2013 there were about 600 accidental shooting deaths.

Gun Owners? Hell no. Car owners. Just imagine if we made everyone a safe driver?

For every one accidental discharge death, there are 60 people smashed in a car.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_motor_vehicle_deaths_in_U.S._by_year
http://www.drugwarfacts.org/cms/causes_of_death#sthash.NBkdyVT0.dpbs
http://www.cdc.gov/nchs/fastats/accidental-injury.htm
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I think your data proves my point. You are fuzzy about the difference between frequency of an occurence and the probability of one. There are a lot of cars on the road -- locked and loaded if you will -- not so many firearms in the same state. Even so, the number of discharges are within reasonable frequency. It's not like the ratio is a million to one. And you are talking about preventable death due to accidental discharge.

I didn't say force people to, just that I wish that people would. Not saying gun control, not saying restrictions, not saying imposed classes, just saying I wish that people that own a deadly weapon like a firearm would take training in safety and situational awareness. So, because people die in cars, we shouldn't want people to take safety and situational awareness training for firearms? How do these connect?

Hell no to the idea of training and use of a firearm? Not even voluntary? Again, your post proves my point that many firearm owners are cavalier and ignorant about their weapon.
 
Fogdog said:
There are a lot of cars on the road -- locked and loaded if you will -- not so many firearms in the same state. .
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Sorry, there are more firearms in the USA than there are cars on the road.

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-ihs-automotive-average-age-car-20140609-story.html
253 million cars

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/04/gun-ownership-by-the-numbers/
there are 310 million non-military firearms in the USA

Whoops.
Guess your point has been proven wrong.

If you think my point was that we don't need safety training for guns, well we all know what happens to people who make unfounded assumptions.

Every person who drives in the USA must have a license, in order to get a license you have to be trained to drive a car and then you get tested mentally and physically before being issued that license. Yet all those trained car drivers are accidentally killing 60 people with a car for every one accidentally killed with a gun. And there are more guns than cars.

Safety training people doesn't necessarily mean they will be safer. It depends on the person.
 
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NoDrama said:
Yet all those trained car drivers are accidentally killing 60 people with a car for every one accidentally killed with a gun. And there are more guns than cars.
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and we all know rhat people use their guns as often as their cars.

:roll:

you dumb fucking shit.
 
It's amazing he lived thru that impact & was well enough to go to jail 2 days later .

The nutty fuk needed to be stopped asap for sure by any means possible but I can't help but think the cop who rammed him enjoyed doing it .
 
panhead said:
It's amazing he lived thru that impact & was well enough to go to jail 2 days later .

The nutty fuk needed to be stopped asap for sure by any means possible but I can't help but think the cop who rammed him enjoyed doing it .
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You know the creep just sits in his house watching reruns of himself running that guy over with a boner and a grin
 
NoDrama said:
Sorry, there are more firearms in the USA than there are cars on the road.

http://www.latimes.com/business/autos/la-fi-hy-ihs-automotive-average-age-car-20140609-story.html
253 million cars

http://dailycaller.com/2014/11/04/gun-ownership-by-the-numbers/
there are 310 million non-military firearms in the USA

Whoops.
Guess your point has been proven wrong.
Click to expand...

OK, one more try,
Most firearms are in storage most of the time. Most cars go on the road every day. Guns in storage can't hurt anybody. Comparing the frequency of fatalities due to cars or guns to the total numbers of each isn't meaningful.

You wrote "Gun owners? Hell no." It's not on me that you are a poor writer and leave statements that are open to practically any interpretation. So I'll ask now what I should have earlier: What did you mean if not that gun owners don't need to take training?

I just wish that more owners of firearms took safety and situational awareness training. I only know a few that have taken training and they did so only once. That said, I agree that the issue of gun safety is overblown by the press and proponents of gun control.

I also feel that the advocates for gun ownership are trying to have it both ways. On the one hand they are dead set to allow easy access to all manner of firepower. On the other hand they say things like you did: "Safety training people doesn't necessarily mean they will be safer. It depends on the person." OK Mr. Butcher of the English Language, what do you mean by that? I see how your statement might be interpreted to say that some people aren't safe with firearms.
 
panhead said:
It's amazing he lived thru that impact & was well enough to go to jail 2 days later .

The nutty fuk needed to be stopped asap for sure by any means possible but I can't help but think the cop who rammed him enjoyed doing it .
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Yes, that was one lucky bastard. When I saw the video, I thought he was a goner. He's a tough bastard too. I too have second thoughts about the nature of that cop. He made the right decision that day but it seems to me that he has a hair trigger on his willingness to take violent action. Not much room for error. Only time will tell.
 
Fogdog said:
He made the right decision that day but it seems to me that he has a hair trigger on his willingness to take violent action. Not much room for error. Only time will tell.
Click to expand...

With the law suit maybe we will get to hear about the cops prior arrest history , it would be nice to know if he flips & uses max force at every chance or show's foresight & restraint .

Sadly I expect to hear a past filled with violent encounters , whenever I see a cop hurt somebody it makes me wonder about his true motives , no matter how big of peice of shit the citizen is .

I also wonder if cops are taught to use their vehicles as a deadly weapon , that cop made one hella quick judgement call & took that maniac out.
 
panhead said:
With the law suit maybe we will get to hear about the cops prior arrest history , it would be nice to know if he flips & uses max force at every chance or show's foresight & restraint .

Sadly I expect to hear a past filled with violent encounters , whenever I see a cop hurt somebody it makes me wonder about his true motives , no matter how big of peice of shit the citizen is .

I also wonder if cops are taught to use their vehicles as a deadly weapon , that cop made one hella quick judgement call & took that maniac out.
Click to expand...

They are trained to use their cruiser as yet another piece of equipment in their arsenal. It really can be a very versatile piece of equipment.
 
Fogdog said:
OK, one more try,
Most firearms are in storage most of the time. Most cars go on the road every day. Guns in storage can't hurt anybody. Comparing the frequency of fatalities due to cars or guns to the total numbers of each isn't meaningful.

You wrote "Gun owners? Hell no." It's not on me that you are a poor writer and leave statements that are open to practically any interpretation. So I'll ask now what I should have earlier: What did you mean if not that gun owners don't need to take training?

I just wish that more owners of firearms took safety and situational awareness training. I only know a few that have taken training and they did so only once. That said, I agree that the issue of gun safety is overblown by the press and proponents of gun control.

I also feel that the advocates for gun ownership are trying to have it both ways. On the one hand they are dead set to allow easy access to all manner of firepower. On the other hand they say things like you did: "Safety training people doesn't necessarily mean they will be safer. It depends on the person." OK Mr. Butcher of the English Language, what do you mean by that? I see how your statement might be interpreted to say that some people aren't safe with firearms.
Click to expand...

I like how you have seen that your original argument is indefensible in the face of facts and now have to have a completely new argument in order to be even a little bit right. Its not quite synonymous with admitting defeat of the original argument, but semantics aside its exactly the same thing. Your original argument was that there are more cars than firearms, but that has been proven incorrect so now your argument is that cars are driven more often than guns are carried. If you would have made that statement from the get go you would not have heard a word otherwise from me.

Driving a car isn't a right. You can't pass legislation requiring a special training class in order to exercise a right.
 
NoDrama said:
You can't pass legislation requiring a special training class in order to exercise a right.
Click to expand...

you can actually, and the supreme court might even rule in favor of it. the supreme court even in its current conservative form has OK'ed plenty of restrictions on firearm ownership and usage.
 
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