Virgin seeking experienced hand...

Well I am not a happy camper this morning. I have over 6g worth of equipment etc.. here to grow a damn weed & I'm killing them!! WTF!!! Got up this morn to droopy awful looking plants. Lots of lower leaves turning yellow....the big fan leaves that were so pretty a week ago are now droopy & turning brown. All of my long roots are gone.. H2O2 pruning??? IDK , grrrrrrr I've stopped top drip feedings but rockwool is still soaked. I start my veg reservoir with 3 gal distilled water per BCNL grow manual...maybe I should take some out? I just can't believe this is happening after I have been so careful & vigilant This is SOOOOOOOOOOO not a good time for my plants to be so stressed as I feel they are very close to flower. Can you say hermie boys & girls?!?!?! I am just sick about this!!! Am gonna go take some pics & I'll post them in a bit. MJ


BTW...Thanks Fishen for the ratio & mixing instructions. What did your plants do during mold growth? I am just sick about all of this nonsense!!!

trial and error my friend. every failure is a step closer to success. etc!


sounds like over watering, but your new fangled contraptions make my head spin. i suggest seeking someone who has the same exact setup and is managing it successfully. read there journal a couple times. this may require going to a different forum. dont worry we wont hate on you!

also. many of us have killed plants. yeah its sad, but there will be much more where that one plant came from. plus, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

make it work!

slamminsalmon said:

trial and error my friend. every failure is a step closer to success. etc!


sounds like over watering, but your new fangled contraptions make my head spin. i suggest seeking someone who has the same exact setup and is managing it successfully. read there journal a couple times. this may require going to a different forum. dont worry we wont hate on you!

also. many of us have killed plants. yeah its sad, but there will be much more where that one plant came from. plus, if it was easy, everyone would be doing it!

make it work!

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im there with you , i 2 was just as fustrated as u. what is the temps inside? and temps out side. are your root still white?

Thanks Slammin ...Love your energy & determination. Check out how pitiful these poor babies look. Do you really think they are gonna die? OMG, MJ

OMG Fishen you can't imagine how inept I feel right now...WTF?!?!?!? Temps are great...steady 70F. Humidity has been 40 +/- 5. PH stable 5.8. Do these look like nute burns? I mean I can see water stress obviously but all the rust looking spots are freaking me out. Do you think they will die? My roots are mostly white. Sensi nutes are kinda a cola color so I thought the roots that were down to res were just tinged that color. Now all those roots are gone...I repeat none down in the water...ALL 7 plants. Do you think I'll stress em more by not top watering?...they look so stressed already. I'm not coping with this too well!!...must have puffy break. I'll be back. MJ

MaryJane777 said:

OMG Fishen you can't imagine how inept I feel right now...WTF?!?!?!? Temps are great...steady 70F. Humidity has been 40 +/- 5. PH stable 5.8. Do these look like nute burns? I mean I can see water stress obviously but all the rust looking spots are freaking me out. Do you think they will die? My roots are mostly white. Sensi nutes are kinda a cola color so I thought the roots that were down to res were just tinged that color. Now all those roots are gone...I repeat none down in the water...ALL 7 plants. Do you think I'll stress em more by not top watering?...they look so stressed already. I'm not coping with this too well!!...must have puffy break. I'll be back. MJ

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ok first things first. you say there are no more feeder roots droping down into the water? if u have no top feder and no roots in the water/nuits sounds like thay might need to be watered. try puting the top feders back on and change out ur nuits with only ro water and see if thay pirk up in an hour or two.

i have never had any problem with over watering from the top feeders. like i said i dont use rockwool anymoor i use thoes litle round pelits , thay look like potery pelits, works grate and u can reuse them. i always try to remove all or most of the rockwool from my little clones , without hurting the roots. place them in a pot and fill with the pelits. thay wont stay as wet as the wool. rockwool seems to mess with my ph also. i keep mine at 6.2.

its very important to have ur feeder roots down in the fluid . if u lost ur root structure u may have a viras or desease. i just picked up some vodo juice, beracade from advance nuits and some sub culture - m and - b. its all for the roots. helthyer the roots the biger the plants. biger plants meen biger buds. im still learning about microbs, bacteria and enzims. i think this may be ur problem, i had a very simalure problem with mine . i had pithyea ( if i speled that rite ) root rot . do u have a lot of air in ur tub , did u plug off the air in the flower side to sent more air into the veg side, haw many air stones do u have going ?

fishenfool06 said:

ok first things first. you say there are no more feeder roots droping down into the water? if u have no top feder and no roots in the water/nuits sounds like thay might need to be watered. try puting the top feders back on and change out ur nuits with only ro water and see if thay pirk up in an hour or two.

i have never had any problem with over watering from the top feeders. like i said i dont use rockwool anymoor i use thoes litle round pelits , thay look like potery pelits, works grate and u can reuse them. i always try to remove all or most of the rockwool from my little clones , without hurting the roots. place them in a pot and fill with the pelits. thay wont stay as wet as the wool. rockwool seems to mess with my ph also. i keep mine at 6.2.

its very important to have ur feeder roots down in the fluid . if u lost ur root structure u may have a viras or desease. i just picked up some vodo juice, beracade from advance nuits and some sub culture - m and - b. its all for the roots. helthyer the roots the biger the plants. biger plants meen biger buds. im still learning about microbs, bacteria and enzims. i think this may be ur problem, i had a very simalure problem with mine . i had pithyea ( if i speled that rite ) root rot . do u have a lot of air in ur tub , did u plug off the air in the flower side to sent more air into the veg side, haw many air stones do u have going ?

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Hi Fishen...Your reasoning seems rational to me...I did give them top drip feeding this evening as I also felt they needed something since roots are gone. What roots remain are white & appear healthy but they are just clearing pot bottoms. H2O2 works like Hygrozyme...eats off the dead yuck. I just happened to have lots of yuck I guess??? Only thing is Hygrozime leaves behine enzymes to eat the yuck I think...H2O2 also provides additional O2 to water. I have 2 12" airstones going in veg res as provided by BCNL. No clue how to divert air from flower side but hopefully will be using flower side soon. If death looks inevitable I'll top em & clone em' Now I did have some fuzzy gunk on my stones a few days back when I bleached everything. I noticed a bit on there today as well but just passed it off as some of the roots H2O2 ate off. Time will not permit me to change res this evening unless I do it right before lites out. I did hand remove ~1 1/2 gal from res & replaced it with plain distilled H2O PH'd to 5.8 after puffy break this morning. Tomorrow I will rebleach everything including pump & stones. I will also just use PH H20 for a few days. So you use something like Hydroton without any rockwool? My husband had ghetto grow many yrs ago & he is razzing me mercilessly about this so I'm getting pretty pissed. Of course he's not here dealing with it & it's pretty easy to be critical when you are so far removed I guess (he works in another country currently...yea, it gets old pretty quick, LOL). These plants were showing explosive growth & now this?!?!?! Am so friggin' baffled. Trying to remain positive but with everything else going on I REALLY don't need this. I need some calmness, some zen if you will LOL Ah well...only time will tell if I'm a black widow or a miracle worker LOL
As always thanks for your kindness Fishen...you are awesome. MJ

MaryJane777 said:

Hi Fishen...Your reasoning seems rational to me...I did give them top drip feeding this evening as I also felt they needed something since roots are gone. What roots remain are white & appear healthy but they are just clearing pot bottoms. H2O2 works like Hygrozyme...eats off the dead yuck. I just happened to have lots of yuck I guess??? Only thing is Hygrozime leaves behine enzymes to eat the yuck I think...H2O2 also provides additional O2 to water. I have 2 12" airstones going in veg res as provided by BCNL. No clue how to divert air from flower side but hopefully will be using flower side soon. If death looks inevitable I'll top em & clone em' Now I did have some fuzzy gunk on my stones a few days back when I bleached everything. I noticed a bit on there today as well but just passed it off as some of the roots H2O2 ate off. Time will not permit me to change res this evening unless I do it right before lites out. I did hand remove ~1 1/2 gal from res & replaced it with plain distilled H2O PH'd to 5.8 after puffy break this morning. Tomorrow I will rebleach everything including pump & stones. I will also just use PH H20 for a few days. So you use something like Hydroton without any rockwool? My husband had ghetto grow many yrs ago & he is razzing me mercilessly about this so I'm getting pretty pissed. Of course he's not here dealing with it & it's pretty easy to be critical when you are so far removed I guess (he works in another country currently...yea, it gets old pretty quick, LOL). These plants were showing explosive growth & now this?!?!?! Am so friggin' baffled. Trying to remain positive but with everything else going on I REALLY don't need this. I need some calmness, some zen if you will LOL Ah well...only time will tell if I'm a black widow or a miracle worker LOL
As always thanks for your kindness Fishen...you are awesome. MJ

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there is another posibility , if u leave asmutch as one drop of bleach in ur tub or dripers. it will do ur plants in.

h2o2 is a sterilizer not an enzime . it can be used as a oxey booster but it kill bacteria and enzimes. i used h2o2 when i had root rot to cleen out the tub . after flushing compleetly with ro water u need to follow with some enzimes so it can colinize the roots. thats were the microbs and benafishal bacteria comes into play. u almost need to be a kimist to do this dwc system. have fath, u will be victoryus. ( sory as i am for the bad spelling ) id use spell cker but no patiance.

fishenfool06 said:

there is another posibility , if u leave asmutch as one drop of bleach in ur tub or dripers. it will do ur plants in.

h2o2 is a sterilizer not an enzime . it can be used as a oxey booster but it kill bacteria and enzimes. i used h2o2 when i had root rot to cleen out the tub . after flushing compleetly with ro water u need to follow with some enzimes so it can colinize the roots. thats were the microbs and benafishal bacteria comes into play. u almost need to be a kimist to do this dwc system. have fath, u will be victoryus. ( sory as i am for the bad spelling ) id use spell cker but no patiance.

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No, I think I cleaned all bleach out...only used a weak solution & mixed up according to Al B. Fuct's instruction on his hydro thread. Rinsed very well. I am really thinking I am dealing with a few things here...
#1 Mold...have removed visible & will continue cleaning out until it's gone with addition of Neem oil & Safer soap. I do need to figure out a way to build up some medium around my stems as they're leaning sincemold removal but I'm scared to do anything just now.

#2 Nute burn...am thinking that the nutes in addition to folilar spray with the seaweed solution is what burned em. I dunno though. This morning there were all the rust colored spots now Iam seeing lil white spots which kinda confirms nute burn. I am using the same concentration of nutes I've been using for 2 weeks though so why now?

#3 Overwatering...I only followed BCNL grow instruction on this but in the future once roots are in water I may topwater only as needed...kinda confused on this one!!


I'm getting this is "full on damage control" but I'm still not happy about it...live & learn. Still pushing on though...fearless. MJ


PS. Spelling is overratedkiss-ass

balance has alot to do with alot of things i will admit i dint read fully whole thread but i have read enought to know that maybe you have roots dryin up from turnin off top feeders and just relyin on the roots in water .........i think you should turn drips back on for sure ....but do it with a timer or somethin maybe try 15 on and 15 off ......because you do not want em to get too dry ..

...the balance between wet and dry roots i have found to be one of the most key things to growin this stuff .... that is why aero systems do so well cause they just basically mist roots ..i have spent alot of money of diff systems and have learned alot about the wet/dry ratio type thing on roots ...

let me ask you this ......are you using airstone is your reservoir and is a bunch of your root mass in water already or ..not

o another thing mj .....this is a suggestion ...if you want to get cloning right away ....i would switch to 12/12 cycle now ....alot of times i have a hard time getting vegg plants big enought to clone out ...but even if you put a very small plant .....ie. i put 6 inch seedlings into bloom and ; within a week they were amazingly big and had off shoots that i was able to take clones from ...also i was able to tell males or females and that will free up some space in your box unit ....how much flowering light does it use how many watts of hps ? and how many sites does it have to flower with ....

from what i see and from the dates of posts i can tell you have had a fairly decent veg progression .....i too have veg plants ....in high dollar aerounits that ...for some reason stall up at around that same height you are dealin with ...... but i guarantee that you will see massive results if you switch to bloom ..

you will be able to get clones ...or snips as i like to call em ... about 10 days after you switch em to bloom ...i would sugge\st keeping the nute formula the same ..... a good way to do nutes in the transition is just leave em the same for a few days and if they really start to take off .. maybe give em a tiny bit more ......

k then after that 10 days i guarantee you are gonna see them stretchin all over the place ...also they will reveal the sex of the plant .......this is when you grab some clones off the females, label em and throw em into the cloner ,,,if i remeber right you got one comin or somethin right ..if not i would use rockwool i can guide you through that process step by step

this will give you your clones and smoke and really the whole gro op will accelerate .......it only took me a couple grows to figure out ......that if i threw my mothers into veg they actually did the job of being a mother plant and stretch,showed sex,and gave clones ......way faster than the mother that i would try to get all nice and big in veg ....o and i got like 2 years experience and about 20 or more good grows down .....this does take awhile to learn but if i really would have read some threads before startin i would have done better .....and i really think you have been doin ok i seen pics and dates they were posted ...not a bad run so far ......i would definetly suggest the kickstart plan tho of bloomin now

just like to add that even tho i do that on first run when i am startin from seed ......after that i concentrate on growin a big mother plant from clones and have done that with bucket systems ...i am guessing that you have a unit in that box strictly for veg tho .....do have a link to what box you use so i can really asses the situation

doktorgreenthumb420 said:

balance has alot to do with alot of things i will admit i dint read fully whole thread but i have read enought to know that maybe you have roots dryin up from turnin off top feeders and just relyin on the roots in water .........i think you should turn drips back on for sure ....but do it with a timer or somethin maybe try 15 on and 15 off ......because you do not want em to get too dry ..

...the balance between wet and dry roots i have found to be one of the most key things to growin this stuff .... that is why aero systems do so well cause they just basically mist roots ..i have spent alot of money of diff systems and have learned alot about the wet/dry ratio type thing on roots ...

let me ask you this ......are you using airstone is your reservoir and is a bunch of your root mass in water already or ..not

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doktorgreenthumb420 said:

balance has alot to do with alot of things i will admit i dint read fully whole thread but i have read enought to know that maybe you have roots dryin up from turnin off top feeders and just relyin on the roots in water .........i think you should turn drips back on for sure ....but do it with a timer or somethin maybe try 15 on and 15 off ......because you do not want em to get too dry ..

...the balance between wet and dry roots i have found to be one of the most key things to growin this stuff .... that is why aero systems do so well cause they just basically mist roots ..i have spent alot of money of diff systems and have learned alot about the wet/dry ratio type thing on roots ...

let me ask you this ......are you using airstone is your reservoir and is a bunch of your root mass in water already or ..not

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Doktor, thanks for stopping by my thread. Well, I had lots of LOOONG roots all the way down in the water but not anymore since I double dosed em with H2O2 2 days ago due to appearance of mold on my rockwool. Now I have sparkling white short roots barely clearing my pots. I do have 2 12" airstones in my reservoir. I am watering again per timer 2 times a day for 5 mins each time. My biggest obstacle has been the 3" rockwool cubes staying soaked.. In hindsight I realize with this system that after germination in 1" rockwool I should have placed them in hydroton rocks instead of more rockwool. If the rockwool wasn't full of roots I'd try to seperate the plants from rockwool & fix it but I'm not feeling adventurous or lucky tonight!! At any rate I'm not timid or weak by any means & although I've been in a bit of a funk today I will press on. I refuse to throw in the towel after a month. They'll have to shrivel up & turn brown & crunchy before I admit defeat, LOL Moving on....MJ

here is a pic of what i have to take down in like 3 days for an inpection the realty people do ...i guess its like some kind of routine check to make sure all of their properties are liveable .....anyways yea i would have deffinetly go with straight to hydroton next time .

yea these i know are way stretched and everythin ....lol this is sog to the extreme ...at least my left tray is .....80 plants in a 4x4 tray ........this is not what you want to accomplish btw ....they would be fine if they had more space but i grew too many at once and for some reason i just cant bring myself to kill some of em ...even tho i know it would make others do better ..

and buckets on right hand side tray i would say are very close to same type of system u use ...they are top feed drips into rockwool seed starts and the roots eventually reach bottom dwc style

Wow, Doktor...thanks so much for the tips. I have actually been toying with the idea of switching over to flower but have just been in a state of limbo since locking myself out of my grow & now all this recent drama. The cabinet I own is the Bloombox by BC Northern Lights in Canada. I also purchased the dryer, basic nutes, & meters from them as well. Here is a link: http://www.bcnorthernlights.com/indoor-hydroponic-grow-boxes The flower side has 12 spots for plants & uses a 400W HPS light & a 10 gal res. I have Connesuier (spelling?) & Canna nutes for flower..not sure which I will use yet. Prolly the first this grow. Have been using H2O2 but have ordered some Hygrozime. Not sure how much of a good thing is too much but I'm also interested in Barricade & Voodoo Juice. My friend Fishen is going to be trying them so I was kind of waiting to see how their plants do with it. So lemme get this straight. Go ahead & place plants in flower & once they declare sex then clone them? You don't think they're too stressed to move now? They've recently had mold to tops of rockwool & what appears to be nute burn over last few days. I have Neem oil ordered but they are as yet unofficially treated although I see no visible mold right now. These aren't feminsed & I only have 7 plants. I am hoping for 3 or 4 females but I don't want them to hermie. What's your opinion Dok? This would certainly give me time to let my veg res dry out & be rid of whatever ails it & also to get my cloner up & running. So excited about the cloner It actually will fit perfect on the cloning shelf but the light may be too close..we'll see!! So you are saying just flower for sex, then clone for a Mom? So you are using rockwool? How in the world do you keep it dry? I have a feeling mine will be drying out a lot more under that HPS light which will help with the mold issues. I will hafta think about this. Are you sure they aren't too stressed out to move over to flower? So glad to have you aboard!! MJ

Dok, are they WAYYYY stretched? LOL I think they look great If you're over crowded why not share with a friend or sell them. You're prolly like me though... an army of one?? Inspections stink for sure & you certainly have a lot to move. How you gonna explain the venting system? That's a lot to move Dok but I know you already have a plan. That's gonna be more than a few trips to the shed..hope you don't have suspicious neighbors!! What you planning to do bout the plants in pseudo-DWC? Won't a few hours without power kill em'? You've certainly got your hands full & you're here helping me. Thank you TOO much,MJ

lol it lots of questions ill have to keep scrollin up t5o make sure i got em all ...first of all a 400 watt hps means you are workin with somethin i am familiar with ....

another thing is ....i have actually used the transfer to flower room as a way of pullin plants out of stress ....weird thing is plants seem to accept lots more nutes and they always seem to come right out of shock ....and yea mine arnt too stretched but i am use to gettin plants real nice and compact ....prolly about 10 inches shorter than ones in pic then light gets em real nice

o and i know there are concerns about wet rockwool but i have bucket units that are very simalar to your grow that had the little cube and it is literally green now from algae and no problems ...i do however keep an eye out for any type of rot ...and suggest the same...cube is literally soaked all the time ....24/7 drip from buckets on it constantly

one main thing i suggest tho is when you change em to your flower nute mix ....make sure it is only half strength nutes ...and also make sure you give it just a tad more of the grow mix ...as they will be doin some growin first 10 days or so ...and they will like you for that extra nitrogen ....

and i know it is not the best practice to take clones from a plant that has been bloomin for a week ...but i have done it so many times and any pro on here will agree it is a good method for a beginner that really wants to start everythin up fast ...

thing is make sure you take lower clones and the sooner the better because if they start to get too many hairs it will take em longer to start veggin ....this is avoided however cause when you are lookin at these you will notice they show sex at top of the plant first and so the lower limbs have no hairs and wont really go thru much shock at all

It's a new day & I have a plan, LOL So I'm coming out of the funk I've been in & am headed out for hydroton rocks & safer soap today Have decided to at least move plants over to flower side of res....prolly will just give ph'd h2o for a few days just to let them get over the shock of everything. I will place 2 maybe 3 fans over in flower side today. What did you use Fishen??? I will be elevating res in flower side as I did over in veg so plants can get closer to the light.... am thinking 12" from HPS behind cooling glass should suffice. Also am going to place additional bubbler in res...like the kind you can use in a shiner bucket for fishing?? Am going to place hydroton rocks in bottom of buckets and also around tops of stems to stabilize them some & help with rockwool drainage (hopefully). Misted plant folliage several times yesterday with Ph'd h2o & they seemed to like it. Plants are ugly today but no uglier than yesterday....keeping my fingers crossed they'll begin recovery. Plants seem to be reaching for light today instead of drooping like saggy boobies, LOL I have trimmed off all obviously beyond repair folliage from lower on the stem. My cloner should arrive by early next week so I'll have it up & running by the time my plants show their sex. Veg res will be filled with h2o & bleach to run through pump & airstones for 24 hrs today...hopefully whatever is in there will die & go it's way!! Am nervous about all this as I should be but not going to let it get the best of me I will have to take some pics later this afternoon after all the busy work is done. Have a happy day, MJ

Hi MJ i made it. Im going to have to read thru i guess and catch up. Unless u want to do a quickee fast to bring me up to date cause im gonna be pretty well smoked out for awhile and probably wont get around to reading haha..
But yea. DWC is my main grow actually. Been playing with a little coco but anyway..

onthedl0008 said:

Hi MJ i made it. Im going to have to read thru i guess and catch up. Unless u want to do a quickee fast to bring me up to date cause im gonna be pretty well smoked out for awhile and probably wont get around to reading haha..
But yea. DWC is my main grow actually. Been playing with a little coco but anyway..

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i only have one extra fan in flower side. i have it set at the top on full speed.seems to do the job.

DL...thx for showing up LOL Hey if your sitting around toking why not read? Prolly just my last 2 or 3 pages should suffice!! OK, talk soon!!! MJ