Way too many contradictions in this hobby.

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singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
That's a big ol' can of worms. Some people are just naturally gifted in their musical brilliance. No issues here with that musical construct at all.

Yes, I called Cobain brilliant.

All we are is all we are----All we are is all we are---All we are is all we are..............................................(20 minutes later) All we are is all we are.

Not so brilliant if you ask me, but you cant argue taste in music. everyone likes different things. In fact some great music is very very simple. nothing wrong with simple,. just not my cup of tea when it comes to Nirvana.

All we are is all we are. Sick of it yet? I know I sure am...

last thing, Kurt Cobain HATED his own music.... Just an intersting fact.
 
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BongerChonger

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ts funny because I was just talking to the manager of a garden shop and we were talking about how important it is for the soil to breath.
Really can't emphasize how important it is either.
I'm not really sure if the soil is compacting or if my roots are suffocating. Wlll examining the roots at the end of my grow give me any clues?
Maybe if the roots are totally rotten. But otherwise not really, I don't think.

Suffocating plants you can mostly tell visually by how the plant looks. They'll droop or slump if it's bad.
Otherwise it's poor stunted growth and random plant symptoms.
In fact I'd suggest 9/10 times any plant deficiency, or lockout, overwatering, underwatering etc., can all be attributed to inadequate soil aeration. Chronic overwatering is a great example.

Soil Compaction will be obvious, because you'll notice it takes much longer for your pot to drain. Plus, you'll have to wait much longer between watering. And if it gets really bad, it'll have trouble taking in water. Poking holes in it isn't the fix for instance. Just a band-aid approach.
The cause of soil compaction is from both a lack of organic matter and soil aeration/drainage. (need more brown material)

Carbon rich brown material is actually something nearly all soils lack. Whether it be on a farm, or a bed at home. It's difficult to replace it, and difficult to supply ample extra for the crops and soil. You really can never keep up.
Most peoples composts haven't got enough brown materials in them either. It's not criticism, it's just the general nature of composting. Carbon to Nitrogen ratio for composting is roughly 30/1.
If there's too much Nitrogen it doesn't heat up enough. Doesn't compost adequately. And will favour Anaerobic environments.

Rice hulls might be the perfect brown material, if you were cooking the soil too? So it has time to break up the soil.
You'll still need a bit of rich matter too for Nitrogen to get it going. Something hot like manure.
 

Django66

Well-Known Member
The best thing I think new growers can do is to get some experience growing anything, before jumping into the world of growing cannabis. There is a lot of basic plant care that youll learn, a lot of transferable skills you can take with you (for example, a tomato - starting seeds, nurturing seedlings, pruning, transplanting, feeding, taking cuttings and rooting them, and flowering them). Cannabis indeed is a special plant, but it’s still a plant at the end of the day. A little relevant experience and common sense with gardening will answer a lot of basic questions. Then you’ll have some knowledge and wisdom to draw from and help discern whether the info you’re getting makes sense or not.
BINGO! It's an annual plant. Treat it as such. 90 days autos and 180 photos?
Start with simple nutrient rich soil and feed with KNO3 when needed.
Build your microbiome if you're planting a tree or shrubs and even then, I'm not sure it's necessary.
PH your soil if you own a farm. Not a 5 gallon planter.
Pruning tomatoes is basically the same approach as cannabis.
Garden Fundementals rather than Mr kanooks, OK?
 

fatboyOGOF

Well-Known Member
,,,,,
As a new grower who takes new hobbies way too seriously, I am left scratching my head. I am a big reader, and have read just about every grow book published, both old and new. Examples https://cannabislegale.org/these-are-the-5-best-cannabis-growing-books/

I have also watched many youtube videos showing grows and offering advice on growing.

Here are some topics that I find very frustrating, both from advice give on forums and from the grow books.

1. Flower time----Countless professional grow videos show MOST cannabis finishing at around week 8-9 (including pre flower time-- we are talking 8-9 weeks after 12/12 flip and they harvest.) If you ask around here, chances are no matter what you say (Lets say I'm in week 9 Flower with an Indica) almost 90% of people will say " You have many weeks to go)... I understand that Seedbanks may be dishonest with flower times, but for a newbie, all the mis-information I can find is conficting. And yes, I let a 7-9 week Indica go many weeks longer following advice from others and it was harvested a bit late....(watching tricomes and pistols with a loupe)

2. Bloom Nutrients-- And or Nitrogen during flower. This one is really giving me a headache, most say to cut nitrogen mid to late flower, but many also say that Bloom Nutrients cause more harm than good. So, I'm pretty much F'ed here. If I cant feed bloom and cant feed Nitrogen (grow nutrients-in flower) what the hell should I feed? I'm at the point where I'm starving my plants because I'm afriad to give them anything.

3. Flushing before harvest---- This is a funny one. In this case, I'm talking about the final flush before harvest. Almost every book I read and following the advice from many professional growers, the taste of the final product will be lower quality if not flushed. And of course, if you've been reading recent advice from folks on the forums,many people are saying not to flush. Another confict leaving me wondering. (I do not flush pre-harvest, but I still wonder who's right)

4. Flushing----- Now, not to complicate things, but the definition of "flushing" seems to be two different things. Definiton 1 is applying plain water 1-2 weeks before harvest. Definition 2 is to flush excess salts from the soil using twice the amount of water to soil. If you look at many feedcharts (Fox Farm as an example) they clearly say to Flush the soil (definition 2) if anything irregular shows----- So, once again we have contradictory opinions here. I cant tell you how many people say not to flush the soil (def 2) and how many say that pre harvest flush is useless.

5. Soil PH---- This is by far the worst for me as it is very important to have the right PH in the root zone, but to save my life I have now way to test it accurately. Have you ever tried to get deep into your soil to test after the roots have taken over the soil? You can't ! The best I can do is to measure water PH going in to compare to the water coming out, but I don't think this is accurate at all. There has to be an easier way to accurately measure soil PH in the root zone. Soil is really starting to annoy me and I'm tempted to go hydroponic even though I know there is a deep learning curve.

6. And last but not least, too many things look alike. Fungus Gnats or Root Aphid flyers? (they look very similar and are very small)... Same goes for deficiencies, lets take purple stems as an example.---Could be a deficiency, might just be the strain. Its just a big headache to me now.

I like growing, but with the price of weed dropping (its almost free where I live now) I'm wondering why I'm bothering anymore. I just cant seem to find good advice that doesnt contradict itself and feel like a dog chasing my tail.


(Side note: please excuse my horrible hacking of the english language, some of the words used here may be off and I am aware that my writing needs improvent !)
i noticed the many wait a few more weeks crowd. i cut when the trichs are 1/2 clear/1/2 cloudy, and at mostly cloudy. i'm thinking many of these people don't cut until there is a lot of amber trichs. i'll have to ask them one of these days. when to cut is a preference, not a law. take a few buds, dry em quickly and vape or smoke them. it'll give you a good idea of what you have. i just cut one auto and will probably cut her 2 sisters tomorrow. they are at 64 days and won't be mostly cloudy for a couple weeks. but the high is perfect for me.
 

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Really can't emphasize how important it is either.

Maybe if the roots are totally rotten. But otherwise not really, I don't think.

Suffocating plants you can mostly tell visually by how the plant looks. They'll droop or slump if it's bad.
Otherwise it's poor stunted growth and random plant symptoms.
In fact I'd suggest 9/10 times any plant deficiency, or lockout, overwatering, underwatering etc., can all be attributed to inadequate soil aeration. Chronic overwatering is a great example.

Soil Compaction will be obvious, because you'll notice it takes much longer for your pot to drain. Plus, you'll have to wait much longer between watering. And if it gets really bad, it'll have trouble taking in water. Poking holes in it isn't the fix for instance. Just a band-aid approach.
The cause of soil compaction is from both a lack of organic matter and soil aeration/drainage. (need more brown material)

Carbon rich brown material is actually something nearly all soils lack. Whether it be on a farm, or a bed at home. It's difficult to replace it, and difficult to supply ample extra for the crops and soil. You really can never keep up.
Most peoples composts haven't got enough brown materials in them either. It's not criticism, it's just the general nature of composting. Carbon to Nitrogen ratio for composting is roughly 30/1.
If there's too much Nitrogen it doesn't heat up enough. Doesn't compost adequately. And will favour Anaerobic environments.

Rice hulls might be the perfect brown material, if you were cooking the soil too? So it has time to break up the soil.
You'll still need a bit of rich matter too for Nitrogen to get it going. Something hot like manure.
Thanks ! This is exactly the type of information I'm looking for and I'll save this in my grow notes, especially what your saying about Nitrogen. I think I may have too much Nitrogen in the soil this grow. (maybe too much worm castings and nutes)

I have not yet cooked soil, I just dont have a good place to leave it to cook. I'd love to mix up some soil and compost to let it cook for a while, but for now I'm kinda stuck using store bought soil (Fox Farm Happy Frog). I do bake my soil to kill all the fungun gnats, but I know thats not the same as cooking. Maybe some day.

My soil came out pretty good this grow, I added a lot of perlite and worm castings and it drains very well (almost too good). The airpot seems to be pretty good at getting the soil to dry out so that nothing is sitting soaked too long. Im watering every 2-3 days now. I also have had leaf tips pointing down this whole grow which leads me to believe something aint quite right. I also lean towards underwatering, and if I'm in doubt, I go one more day to water...

Way off topic, but I happen to have a pet rabbit that is litter trained. I'm betting that poop would be great stuff to use in soil ! (if I can get a cooking bin going !)


This is what I'm working with, a locking cabinet 1.5x1.5 x 3. I keep things low with a manifold and training.... Not the best setup, but I like the fact that I can lock things up ! Nobody knows Im growing.

_DSC4777.JPG
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Thanks ! This is exactly the type of information I'm looking for and I'll save this in my grow notes, especially what your saying about Nitrogen. I think I may have too much Nitrogen in the soil this grow. (maybe too much worm castings and nutes)

I have not yet cooked soil, I just dont have a good place to leave it to cook. I'd love to mix up some soil and compost to let it cook for a while, but for now I'm kinda stuck using store bought soil (Fox Farm Happy Frog). I do bake my soil to kill all the fungun gnats, but I know thats not the same as cooking. Maybe some day.

My soil came out pretty good this grow, I added a lot of perlite and worm castings and it drains very well (almost too good). The airpot seems to be pretty good at getting the soil to dry out so that nothing is sitting soaked too long. Im watering every 2-3 days now. I also have had leaf tips pointing down this whole grow which leads me to believe something aint quite right. I also lean towards underwatering, and if I'm in doubt, I go one more day to water...

Way off topic, but I happen to have a pet rabbit that is litter trained. I'm betting that poop would be great stuff to use in soil ! (if I can get a cooking bin going !)


This is what I'm working with, a locking cabinet 1.5x1.5 x 3. I keep things low with a manifold and training.... Not the best setup, but I like the fact that I can lock things up ! Nobody knows Im growing.
You actually cook it in the oven, :shock:?
 

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
,,,,,

i noticed the many wait a few more weeks crowd. i cut when the trichs are 1/2 clear/1/2 cloudy, and at mostly cloudy. i'm thinking many of these people don't cut until there is a lot of amber trichs. i'll have to ask them one of these days. when to cut is a preference, not a law. take a few buds, dry em quickly and vape or smoke them. it'll give you a good idea of what you have. i just cut one auto and will probably cut her 2 sisters tomorrow. they are at 64 days and won't be mostly cloudy for a couple weeks. but the high is perfect for me.
You noticed the "you have four years more to go to harvest" crowd too? I've been watching them and they really love to torture folks and I'm not sure their advice is right. They just seem to love to say it has a lot longer to go for some odd reason. (Note sometimes their right) but most of the time I just think they like busting someones bubble that is excited to harvest. At least thats how I see it. I'm not sure why so many get pleasure out of others failures, its like they want you to do bad so their posse can come out like a pack of cackling Hyenas. They must have miserable lives and this is all they have.

As far as trichomes, this should have gone on my list. There are many very different opinions on when to harvest. I myself watch the plant, seems to me they kinda tell you when they are done.

1. From my newbie standpoint, when water consumption drops (drastically) thats a sign
2. Yellowing of leaves. When it gets real yellow, that can be a sign (Senescence not a deficiency)
3. Pistols, watch for the percentage of brown to white---another clue that can get you in the ballpark. (when most pistol are brown and curling in)
4. Trichomes--- I watch for everything to cloud up with a few amber showing. This is very strain dependant though. If tricomes are clear, it needs a bit longer. My Northern Lights never seems to amber up on the buds, but the sugar leaves are covered in amber. (I go with cloudy and a few amber to harvest NL)
5. Swelling of the calyx is another thing I watch for.
6. This is my own, so it could be very wrong, but it seems to me the buds kinda shrink a llittle but towards the very end. (or tighten up)

Anyway, I could be way off but a loupe and tricomes is my main way to check before harvest......correct me if I'm way off !
 

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Do you know how to sterilize soil?
I followed quite a few online tutorials on how to sterilize soil. Basically I bake it soaked with boiling water until it reaches 180. I use a glass cooking pan around 3-4 inches deep, heat it to 180, cool it and then use a fan to dry it out. I dont like killing anything good in the soil (good microbes, bacteria etc....) but I hate Fungus Gnats and Aphids even more ! So far this grow I dont have a single fly in my trap. I add Mycos and Great white to my root ball during transplant to "hopefully" get some life back into the soil, at least thats the plan----stan.

I also use BTI tea if fungus gnats are seen..
 

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
I don't understand baking soil.

My wife would love it too, :lol:
Well, if you've ever tried to tell the difference between a Fungus Gnat (relatively harmless) and a Root Aphid Flyer (a nightmare) you'll find out its very hard to tell the difference ! Especially when they get stuck on yellow sticky paper, its really hard to tell them apart.

I had ants around my pot one grow and flies that were very hard to catch (Fungus Gnats are stupid and you can catch them) these flies were a bit smarter. So, with the ants, that lead me to believe they were farming honey dew off my aphids. Anyway, I'm super paranoid now and I stretilize my soil to get a clean slate minus bugs. I dont know if aphids can come in soil, but I'm not gambling.
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Well, if you've ever tried to tell the difference between a Fungus Gnat (relatively harmless) and a Root Aphid Flyer (a nightmare) you'll find out its very hard to tell the difference ! Especially when they get stuck on yellow sticky paper, its really hard to tell them apart.

I had ants around my pot one grow and flies that were very hard to catch (Fungus Gnats are stupid and you can catch them) these flies were a bit smarter. So, with the ants, that lead me to believe they were farming honey dew off my aphids. Anyway, I'm super paranoid now and I stretilize my soil to get a clean slate minus bugs. I dont know if aphids can come in soil, but I'm not gambling.
Are you saying ants were in the FFOF?
 

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
Are you saying ants were in the FFOF?
No, they came half way through a previous grow. Apparently, ants are a big sign that you have aphids.

Interesting fact, ants actually farm the aphids. They protect them and then they squeeze the honedew out to eat. Its funny the things I'm learning in this hobby, pretty cool ! Aphids however are NOT cool ! Ants really have no reason to be around your plant, so if you see them be on the lookout for something much worse. They come into your grow tent because they smell honeydew. (aphid excrement)

And no FFOF for me please, tried it twice it was pure poison. Moving to Happy Frog was much better for me. (east coast soil, many are having troubles with FFOF here)
 

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
No, they came half way through my grow. Apparently, ants are a big sign that you have aphids.

Interesting fact, ants actually farm the aphids. They protect them and then they squeeze the honedew out to eat. Its funny the things I'm learning in this hobby, pretty cool ! Aphids however are NOT cool !
I get the farming, but it sounds like most of that came from somewhere else. Where were you growing? The only bugs I've found in FFOF is fungus gnats and some hypoaspis miles.
 

singlecoiled

Well-Known Member
I get the farming, but it sounds like most of that came from somewhere else. Where were you growing? The only bugs I've found in FFOF is fungus gnats and some hypoaspis miles.
In short, I cant really say for sure if I had aphids, but baking the soil lets me rest a bit easy just in case. I tried researching what types of pests can come in bagged soil, but there isnt much on the topic.

No ants this grow, and no gnats, so it might work, who knows for sure. I'm growing in the cabinet (picture above) in my basement laundry room. The ants came from my basement.
 

Dorian2

Well-Known Member
All we are is all we are----All we are is all we are---All we are is all we are..............................................(20 minutes later) All we are is all we are.

Not so brilliant if you ask me, but you cant argue taste in music. everyone likes different things. In fact some great music is very very simple. nothing wrong with simple,. just not my cup of tea when it comes to Nirvana.

All we are is all we are. Sick of it yet? I know I sure am...

last thing, Kurt Cobain HATED his own music.... Just an intersting fact.
Funnily enough, I'm not a Nervana or Cobain fan at all. Brilliance comes in endless forms most beautiful and most wonderful, to paraphrase some old dude. In an abstract way sometimes.
 
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