WEAK A$$ growth and I mean WEAK!!!!

JohnnySocko · Dec 30, 2013

1) PICTURE OF PLANT *** VERY IMPORTANT ***

1st pic is a Purple has converted from DWC to coco about 3wks ago...It has a bad case of rot and the move to coco saved it....but I've had Cal-mag issues negotiating nute feeding in absurdly hard water (my RO unit gets literally destroyed!!!!) ..anyway, I've backed off the Cal-Mag but now I get light green foliage (see feeding regime further down)

2nd pic is a Blue OOG clone stuck in 3 fingered veg...(it was taken from a mom 2weeks into flower)...just entered 12/12 hoping it will grow out of it...but either way it has weak foliage like the others

3rd pic is typical of the other Blue OG clones (they have 5 finger fan leaves b-cuz they were taken from the mum a lil earlier)...anyway, they got WEAK foliage also

4th 2week old purple haze taken from the larger one....note the deficiency..not 100% sure if its mg or nitrogen...

5th pic is a shot of the typical growth

2) Growing indoor or outdoors:
Indoors:
Lighting schedule:

4x54 T5 3wks (grew BIG fan leafs!!!)
600W MH 2weeks (induced WEAK ass foliage, might be cheap ass Apollo bulb, might be nutes, I dunno)
600W HPS (just chgs to 12/12 yesterday

4x4 tent, Scrog,
3) Watering schedule
DTW, on computer controlled timers 30 sec every 6hrs, was 20% runoff, now zero runoff (plants simply using more H2O)...so I recently added Drip Clean to my rez and didn't change the drip ratewas feeding Canna Coco using bottle instructions w/light Cal-Mag @ 200ppm ...base water is/was 300+ppm 9.1pH (no clue what the hell is in it) ..my tap sucks like all hell....
recently switched to H3ads 6/9 using GH nutes....slight improvement but no cal-mag...leafs still look light green & kinda weak, but growth has picked up

4) Growing Medium
CocoTek 70/30 perlite; pre-charged w/200ppm calmag in 300ppm hard water (this "might" be an issue)....all plants are in 6.5L 7"x7" Hydrofarm square pots

5) What stage of growth
1 purple haze is about 8 weeks old in veg....6ea Blue OG about 3-4weeks in veg (I think) .. 2-3 show pre-flowers since those were taken from the mum 2weeks post 12/12 , one clone is stuck in 3 finger mode...all plants in 6.5L pots and easily 12"x12"12" in mass ...just flipped 12/12 yesterday

So anyway, to summarize I have multiple variables that could be the issue:

Nute lockout due to too high ppm from bad tap water: final ppms were at or about 1000-1100 using Canna w/Cal-Mag ...recently switched to H3ads formula w/o Cal-Mag (ppm about 800-900) .... waiting for RO filters and will be trying low ppm water...

Could be lighting from cheap MH bulb..plant were only about 14" away in 4x4 ...now switched to 12/12 under 600W HPS (also Apollo brand)

...and yeah, I know cheap sh^t ...I'll be getting a better HPS bulb in a couple weeks...

listening/waitng for any input///// thx

Nizza · Dec 30, 2013

damn that makes me want some hortinet, i haven't tried it yet..
scrog is on my TO DO list..
it's an option for me this run, but my grow room is very deep (5' long, 2 foot access) I have a hard time watering the one in the back (3x 15 gallon pots total)
above is 400w hps on a light track back and forth down the chamber, and there are two dual bulb 4 foot t5's running down the chamber, one on either side

anyways i was thinking of doing mini scrog's somehow, so i'd be able to take the plants out to train them under; but am not sure..

how easy is it to pull the growth under the screen and how often do you have to do it??
the 15 gallon pots weigh a ton and i don't want to move them a lot !

tikitoker · Dec 30, 2013

N deficient antagonizing Mg. What is the PH? Lockout from to high ppm and possabily excessive K competing with Mg/Ca. But a runoff PH reading is helpful, however not accurate in coco.

tikitoker · Dec 30, 2013

root rot = stress and they stop eating, so salts accumulate an PH goes wacky.

Nizza · Dec 30, 2013

guessing you've heard of heisenbergs root rot cure (aka microbe tea)

i use coco and do a runoff method
full dose nutes, 10% runoff
half dose nutes, 10% runoff
quarter dose nutes, 10%runoff

step up the full dose, repeat
once a month, do a leech. (3x medium worth of water ran through it , example 3 gallon pot run 9 gallons through)
I use 1/4 dose or 1/8 dose nutes on the leech. I then step back in with full nutes the next watering.

mine were watered once every day or two, this effected nutrient concentration.
ppm from tap is 110, i never exceeded 800 PPM's. My nutrient is 9-3-6 and was used flower and veg. I also added 5ml/gal cal-mag throughout.
I forgot to mention i do 1/2 dose or so of cal-mag with everything
full doses being 5ml/gal of cal-mag

just my experience with coco , maybe it'll help
the runoff method helps keep salts from building up, by constantly stepping down and re-ramping nutes.
if using a wrong ratio of nutrients PPM may need to be higher, so the plant gets sufficient nitrogen or whatever the ratio lacks
this creates an excess of the other nutrients
which is why it's so good to ramp-down the concentration each time, it's almost a fool-proof method

JohnnySocko · Dec 30, 2013

Nizza said:
........
how easy is it to pull the growth under the screen and how often do you have to do it??
the 15 gallon pots weigh a ton and i don't want to move them a lot !

I keep a 4' length of 1/2" PVC pipe next to the tent; I simply push the offending branch such that it pulls back under the screen////I do this daily so its never more than a node or 2 above the screen....you'll note my opening size is about 2"x2" -ish

tikitoker said:
N deficient antagonizing Mg. What is the PH? Lockout from to high ppm and possabily excessive K competing with Mg/Ca. But a runoff PH reading is helpful, however not accurate in coco.

Twas chasing my tail I think with the high ppm tap water...my water is horrible; usually 300+, sometimes 600-700ish...not sure whats the dissolved solids but I got a calcium test kit and just recently measured about 60ppm

Nizza said:
guessing you've heard of heisenbergs root rot cure (aka microbe tea)

i use coco and do a runoff method
full dose nutes, 10% runoff
half dose nutes, 10% runoff
quarter dose nutes, 10%runoff

step up the full dose, repeat
once a month, do a leech. (3x medium worth of water ran through it , example 3 gallon pot run 9 gallons through)
I use 1/4 dose or 1/8 dose nutes on the leech. I then step back in with full nutes the next watering.

mine were watered once every day or two, this effected nutrient concentration.
ppm from tap is 110, i never exceeded 800 PPM's. My nutrient is 9-3-6 and was used flower and veg. I also added 5ml/gal cal-mag throughout.
I forgot to mention i do 1/2 dose or so of cal-mag with everything
full doses being 5ml/gal of cal-mag

yeah Heisenberg, and for any doubters out there I tried chlorine, zone, Physan, H2O2, blah blah blah....only thing that stopped it dead was the bennies and/or Pottasium permanganate (I used both on seperate plants; both worked!!!).... I use bennies in my coco...not sure if it even works but can't hurt....

...I was doing a10-20% DTW using Canna Coco 2pt until I noticed the yellowing...now I'm trying H3ad formula and no runoff w/o the House & Garden stuff...yeah I'm in sorta a state of flux thats why I'm here seeking input...

tikitoker · Dec 31, 2013

Nizza said:
guessing you've heard of heisenbergs root rot cure (aka microbe tea)

i use coco and do a runoff method
full dose nutes, 10% runoff
half dose nutes, 10% runoff
quarter dose nutes, 10%runoff

step up the full dose, repeat
once a month, do a leech. (3x medium worth of water ran through it , example 3 gallon pot run 9 gallons through)
I use 1/4 dose or 1/8 dose nutes on the leech. I then step back in with full nutes the next watering.

mine were watered once every day or two, this effected nutrient concentration.
ppm from tap is 110, i never exceeded 800 PPM's. My nutrient is 9-3-6 and was used flower and veg. I also added 5ml/gal cal-mag throughout.
I forgot to mention i do 1/2 dose or so of cal-mag with everything
full doses being 5ml/gal of cal-mag

just my experience with coco , maybe it'll help
the runoff method helps keep salts from building up, by constantly stepping down and re-ramping nutes.
if using a wrong ratio of nutrients PPM may need to be higher, so the plant gets sufficient nitrogen or whatever the ratio lacks
this creates an excess of the other nutrients
which is why it's so good to ramp-down the concentration each time, it's almost a fool-proof method

I make the microbe tea recipe to the T. I have never deviated from it and it works like a charm every time. I always have at least 1 gallon RTU on hand at all times, and 1/2gallon full strength in the refer. It lasts for 10 das after the brew has finished if kept very cold.
I always run my coco the exact same way, but my mix is usually a 60/40 coco/perlite mix and watering is automated to more frequent than most. Coco has a low CEC and wont hold lots of nutrients to release them later, so I find a more aggressive draining mix and like you said always give a lil bit more with each watering to help flush out any salt build up. Plants love it and really grow with great vigor. MOSTERS!!!

tikitoker · Dec 31, 2013

Originally Posted by tikitoker

N deficient antagonizing Mg. What is the PH? Lockout from to high ppm and possabily excessive K competing with Mg/Ca. But a runoff PH reading is helpful, however not accurate in coco.

Twas chasing my tail I think with the high ppm tap water...my water is horrible; usually 300+, sometimes 600-700ish...not sure whats the dissolved solids but I got a calcium test kit and just recently measured about 60ppm

That's way too high, I wouldn't use that for anything-- shit not even drinking. Only 60 is Ca, what about chloride, fluoride, heavy metals, ect.. Damn sorry to hear your water source is bad. I like to collect rain water in 55gallon barrels, spring thru late fall, before It gets sealed up and stored, I run my ozone machine in the water for 24hrs.

vostok · Dec 31, 2013

No matter what you do to keep your plants alive, if you have root rot, then you have a FUNGI infection, stop the root rot then the plants will continue there grow, there are many proprietary solutions at your grow store, but I have used 5-10% solution of household bleach to a tub of air temperate water before ...with some success

JohnnySocko · Dec 31, 2013

^ yeah I HAD root rot; basically f^ckn around with a DWC and got sick of the constant pH monitoring and shit; now its Coco and it looks like a winner except I'm having a learning curve and some nute issues that I suspect is from bad tap and the need to get my RO system together...
I'm pretty sure I zapped the rot with bennies one a few plants and pottasium permangate on the others...either way rot don't like dry coco so I see no evidence of it....

update: plants are growing fast and yellowing just as fast: this is day 2.5 of 12/12 and I "think" the faster growth is bulb related (switched to HPS) but might be nute related...I dunno...I'm needing solutions fast as my screen is 90% full and I'm praying stretch isn't bad with this blue OG

WEAK A$$ growth and I mean WEAK!!!!

JohnnySocko

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Nizza

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tikitoker

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tikitoker

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Nizza

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JohnnySocko

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tikitoker

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tikitoker

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vostok

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JohnnySocko

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