What do i need with AN 3 series for RDWC

Sour D from Dallas tx

Sour D from Dallas tx

Member
calvin.m16 said:
I use Mars-Hydro TSW-2000 panels and in VEG I run them on the lowest brightness with no problem and I top my plants until they're about 4' tall before flipping and increasing brightness to 100%.

With those Mars Hydro they put off the best spectrum if they're 18-20" away from the tops of the plant(s). The waviness I've seen from plants over watered or you'll sometimes see a "ripple" look or ruffly look. I honestly wouldn't worry about any of that it looks like a healthy plant. using Advanced Nutrients you will want to run their line on the light side its a very powerful formula! I get tip burn using 2 oz of each part per/5 gallons of water; they call for like 3 ounces of each per/5 gallons. Even with 6 foot tall 4 foot wide plants in 10 gallon pots of coco they cannot handle that much nutrients without seeing obvious tip burn and stress from too much food.

1 oz of each part per/2.5 gallons is what I have had the best success with.

Water Temps
You want the res to be 60-70 F ideally and keep it in that range. Once you get above 75 F you start risking experiencing root slime and gunky stuff.. Then you'll be hunting down enzymes and all sorts of stuff OR have to kill any microbial life off using h2o2 or something alike to fix the root diseases if they occur. This goes for water you feed potted plants even.

I moved to coco from deep water culture because of the odd plant reactions with certain genetics. In Coco or Sunshine Mix #4 they just all flourish with the same nutrient solution I'd use in DWC except with even more goodies.

p.s Advanced Nutrients "ph perfect" formulas aren't really reliable to track ppm you are better feeding by MLs or ounces.. Personally though my finished mix for bloom with Bud Ignitor, B-52, Overdrive, Carboload & Big Bud Coco is around 1600-1650 PPM and my plants don't flinch. I use 1 ounce of each product per/5 gallons and 2 ounces each of each base nutrient.
Click to expand...
When you say you switched to coco from dwc can you show me what you are talking about ? Are you saying you are using pots and just coco ? I’m open to trying other shit as well bro. Keeping it real I’m planning on opening a cultivation business in Oklahoma next summer so I’m trying to learn the systems and see what is best to use on a bigger scale to maximize my yield and product quality per dollar amount/ cost etc etc.
but when you say coco show me what your setup looks like sir if you don’t mind
 
calvin.m16

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Sour D from Dallas tx said:
I just did my res change and i used your numbers brotha so let’s see how these ladies respond! I think I’m just going to run the three with calimag and hydrogaurd and 2 weeks each stage of voodoo juice and leave it at that for my first run. Then next run i will put in more additives at the end for sure. I am running 10 inch net pots in 5 gal buckets so may switch to 6 next time. Cause using those big ass net pots I’m only able to fit 5-6 gallons in the whole system or water goes above bottom of net pot.
Click to expand...
Calimagic is a good product so is Hydroguard from what I've heard. I personally never used Hydroguard I always reach for SLF-100.
 
calvin.m16

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Sour D from Dallas tx said:
When you say you switched to coco from dwc can you show me what you are talking about ? Are you saying you are using pots and just coco ? I’m open to trying other shit as well bro. Keeping it real I’m planning on opening a cultivation business in Oklahoma next summer so I’m trying to learn the systems and see what is best to use on a bigger scale to maximize my yield and product quality per dollar amount/ cost etc etc.
but when you say coco show me what your setup looks like sir if you don’t mind
Click to expand...
I switched to using 10 gallon plastic pots from gro-pro with pure coco coir (no perlite) when growing drain to waste hand watering. The plants grow pretty insane in Coco and its way way more forgiving than deep water but you feed it the same way, mix nutes, water into coco in the pots. Personally I don't use perlite because in Coco you don't need to. The air/water capacity is really even so even if you drench it it's fine. Just let it not completely dry out between feedings as coco DRIES OUT and your roots might die if unattended long enough.. I feed using full strength nutrients Every Time every other day watering until there is water dripping out of the pots and get huge results.

Every other day feeding sounds tedious, it is, so that is why I'm currently testing 4 AutoPot XLs and we'll see if that system is worthwhile. In that system you have to use a "high drainage medium" so I used Tupur since it is certainly that.

If you want bigger yield the major thing is going to be training plants to grow bigger and VEGGING LONGER. Let the plants grow to an acceptable height then top them, veg until they are at the next stage of acceptable height and then top again. After that I usually am ready to move them out to flower after 45-60 days of veg. YIELD is all about plant size but also realize potency is going to go down with bigger yields. I have 100% guaranteed first hand experience with that.

Coco costs more than a mix like Advanced Sunshine Mix #4 bales for example depending on brand. I know I pay $14 per/bag of Canna Coco and I believe the bags are 2 cubic feet or 1.75 cu ft which fills about 1 and a half 10 gallon pots.

With coco the goal is really to feed as rapidly as possible and have quick dry/wet cycles. The stalks get gigantic and the plants root systme doesn't have a bunch of stuff blocking it off or that it has to grow around, your root system will just web up in the coco and be amazing also coco is clean and doesn't have any biological or potentially tainted stuff in it usually. The worst I've found was some tiny metal glitter probably from manufacturing.

The plants on the left are 4 Creamsicle plants that were vegged for 60 days in 10 gallon pots of pure coco. The plants were started in 1 gallon "grow bags" using M3 Mix (Michigan Made Mix) Basically a water only organic soil ready to go out of the bag. I like it as well because it does give the stalk of the plant & main tap roots aeration and also has slow break down nutrients, calcium etc that can help throughout the whole plant cycle.

You can see I'm running a 50 pound co2 tank with a Titan Controls Atlas 7 co2 controller set to 1000 PPM keeping the air in the room enriched. Bit of an old picture but still the same setup for the most part except I upgraded the floor fans to commercial grade ones. Lights are Gavita DE 1000w HPS running Eye Hortilux HPS DE (Double Ended) bulbs @ 240v.

When you add perlite into the coco in my opinion you're just reducing rootzone therefor reducing yield because less roots less fruits more roots bigger fruits which I have found to be 1000% accurate. Just know with the bigger pots you will have less plants but way bigger plants. The plants on the left were in week 2 of bloom I believe in this picture, they're now taller than the 5 foot stakes and way more opened up. (pulled branches outwards and tied to stake
1601570806747.png
1601570483009.png
1601571068651.png

The odd metal thing you see is a Suspended Scrog Net I built using 1/2" metal tubing for electric wire and 90 degree elbows with simple 1/2" emt connectors. Suspended from the ceiling using 4 metal ratcheting straps. It worked out great I just pulled down a nice amount, as you can tell I run a perpetual garden that is not my only room. The other room has LED and T5 but I do not have any pics of it atm..

Keep it growing, I'm glad you're like me and actually wanting to learn and experiment. Keeps it fun and proves you're a real grower man.
 
Last edited:
calvin.m16

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Coco or Coco/Perlite are going to be the closest thing to DWC/RDWC results without as many variables or potential issues in my experience. Also you can get cheap coco like 10 dollars a bag but you do get what you pay for. Another grow medium I tested is Sunshine Mix Advanced #4 and that is mostly coco and lots of perlite (you can see on the Gelato 33 (4th plant to the right). I get 3 cubic foot bricks for $25/pop.

Coco by itself is completely inert (no nutritional value), it's also extremely clean if you get Canna, literally almost no smell even... That means we can do what we do with Deep Water Culture or any other "hydroponic" gardening and feed the plants exactly what we want without the other crap. If you do try out Coco the mother earth brand is good but Canna is definitely the best I've tried. I've used Plagron, General Hydroponics (bricks), Canna & mother earth both the coco & coco/perlite options. If you add perlite just know you are effectively and literally reducing your root zone because the roots can't grow into rocks, that means 15 gallon pot is going to really probably be more like 10 gallons when you consider all of the perlite in there. 10 gallon pot is more like 7 gallons of actual root zone because if you have 70/30% blend of Coco/Perlite thats 30% of your pot being taken up by rocks.. It does reduce yield for sure but it allows for faster repeat feedings.


p.s Gnats love to nest up in Coco (harmless but annoying), always have strong winds on your floors to keep them at bay if possible. Setting up some big ass floor fans was the only thing that made the gnats focus on the bananas upstairs. lolol
 
Last edited:
Sour D from Dallas tx

Sour D from Dallas tx

Member
calvin.m16 said:
I switched to using 10 gallon plastic pots from gro-pro with pure coco coir (no perlite) when growing drain to waste hand watering. The plants grow pretty insane in Coco and its way way more forgiving than deep water but you feed it the same way, mix nutes, water into coco in the pots. Personally I don't use perlite because in Coco you don't need to. The air/water capacity is really even so even if you drench it it's fine. Just let it not completely dry out between feedings as coco DRIES OUT and your roots might die if unattended long enough.. I feed using full strength nutrients Every Time every other day watering until there is water dripping out of the pots and get huge results.

Every other day feeding sounds tedious, it is, so that is why I'm currently testing 4 AutoPot XLs and we'll see if that system is worthwhile. In that system you have to use a "high drainage medium" so I used Tupur since it is certainly that.

If you want bigger yield the major thing is going to be training plants to grow bigger and VEGGING LONGER. Let the plants grow to an acceptable height then top them, veg until they are at the next stage of acceptable height and then top again. After that I usually am ready to move them out to flower after 45-60 days of veg. YIELD is all about plant size but also realize potency is going to go down with bigger yields. I have 100% guaranteed first hand experience with that.

Coco costs more than a mix like Advanced Sunshine Mix #4 bales for example depending on brand. I know I pay $14 per/bag of Canna Coco and I believe the bags are 2 cubic feet or 1.75 cu ft which fills about 1 and a half 10 gallon pots.

With coco the goal is really to feed as rapidly as possible and have quick dry/wet cycles. The stalks get gigantic and the plants root systme doesn't have a bunch of stuff blocking it off or that it has to grow around, your root system will just web up in the coco and be amazing also coco is clean and doesn't have any biological or potentially tainted stuff in it usually. The worst I've found was some tiny metal glitter probably from manufacturing.

The plants on the left are 4 Creamsicle plants that were vegged for 60 days in 10 gallon pots of pure coco. The plants were started in 1 gallon "grow bags" using M3 Mix (Michigan Made Mix) Basically a water only organic soil ready to go out of the bag. I like it as well because it does give the stalk of the plant & main tap roots aeration and also has slow break down nutrients, calcium etc that can help throughout the whole plant cycle.

You can see I'm running a 50 pound co2 tank with a Titan Controls Atlas 7 co2 controller set to 1000 PPM keeping the air in the room enriched. Bit of an old picture but still the same setup for the most part except I upgraded the floor fans to commercial grade ones. Lights are Gavita DE 1000w HPS running Eye Hortilux HPS DE (Double Ended) bulbs @ 240v.

When you add perlite into the coco in my opinion you're just reducing rootzone therefor reducing yield because less roots less fruits more roots bigger fruits which I have found to be 1000% accurate. Just know with the bigger pots you will have less plants but way bigger plants. The plants on the left were in week 2 of bloom I believe in this picture, they're now taller than the 5 foot stakes and way more opened up. (pulled branches outwards and tied to stake
View attachment 4700864
View attachment 4700860
View attachment 4700867

The odd metal thing you see is a Suspended Scrog Net I built using 1/2" metal tubing for electric wire and 90 degree elbows with simple 1/2" emt connectors. Suspended from the ceiling using 4 metal ratcheting straps. It worked out great I just pulled down a nice amount, as you can tell I run a perpetual garden that is not my only room. The other room has LED and T5 but I do not have any pics of it atm..

Keep it growing, I'm glad you're like me and actually wanting to learn and experiment. Keeps it fun and proves you're a real grower man.
Click to expand...
Hell yes these pictures are what excite me and lobe the canopy you are getting out of these monsters. I have some years doing low stress training and have over doubled my yields because of it. However i have only tried topping a handful of times as it has not really worked out for me the way it seems for others. Prob becauee i am doing something wrong lol.

and yes i absolutely love the learning of all of this and know there is so much more to learn. And this coco is what i am switching my soil location to after the babies i have finish in the flowerroom

good fucking growing man and i will def be picking your brain!
One question that comes to my mind when seeing these massive trees.
Do you defoliate them at all during the entire growth stages?
 
calvin.m16

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Sour D from Dallas tx said:
Hell yes these pictures are what excite me and lobe the canopy you are getting out of these monsters. I have some years doing low stress training and have over doubled my yields because of it. However i have only tried topping a handful of times as it has not really worked out for me the way it seems for others. Prob becauee i am doing something wrong lol.

and yes i absolutely love the learning of all of this and know there is so much more to learn. And this coco is what i am switching my soil location to after the babies i have finish in the flowerroom

good fucking growing man and i will def be picking your brain!
One question that comes to my mind when seeing these massive trees.
Do you defoliate them at all during the entire growth stages?
Click to expand...
Thank you for the Kudos.

The plants always get defoliated & the lower portions of the plants get chopped off using sharp clean scissors (alcohol soaked between plants to avoid spreading disease).

Basically I wait until the first 3 weeks of veg and then I see what is going to get light and what is not. I will then clean the bottom of the plants all the way up to the point I choose, usually probably 40% of the bottom of the plants get entirely cleaned meaning any branches or fan leaves go bye bye. I've grown 6 different genetics with those methods and had no issues at all doing that. Some people scream that you will hermie your plants or w/e but so far I have not experienced.

Once I push the plants into the first 3 weeks of flower I will roll my mechanics chair in and again clear out any of the lower branches (smaller stuff) completely using the same clean practice of soaking scissors with alcohol. You could use a drink while doing it even if you wanted lol (just don't drink isopropyl LOL)

With my Creamsicle strain it likes to be staked not netted so I will use stakes as support for each branch. This is where topping only once or twice is important because you want the least amount of "main" branches to have to manage. When those suckers get fat and heavy they will flop over and block each other from getting light.

Defoliation is throughout the pruning phases. I will go in and take out any inward-growing fan leaves or any fan leaves obviously blocking my light from contacting bud sites, you don't want to go crazy but definitely get rid of any cluttered leaves or stuff that is going to block tons of light and airflow. I will also hand pluck any dead/dying leaves off my plants any time anywhere. If a leaf gets calmag deficiency (rusty look) from maybe 1 watering not having enough CALMAG then I will pluck those rusty fans off and observe only fresh growth. It's a good habit but can be time consuming and definitely make sure to wear some long sleeves!! Your arms will get greasy in the first 2-3 weeks of bloom.

Summary
I always prune away any lower branches or foliage, especially if it isn't getting light or looks weathered/sick/dying etc..
I usually wait a couple weeks 2-3 between pruning & defoliation. This is to avoid stressing the plant too hard and also to give the plant time to show how it wants to grow vs controlling its growth forcibly. I'll only clear out stuff that I know is going to be a pain in the ass to trim or not get much light. Once I've achieved that we're cooking with gasoline.
-------
Here's a unique plant I grew, it's Gorilla Breath strain but I grew it in a twisted formation using tie downs from the edge of the pot and then let it rip freestyle and just pruned it up. It rocket shipped some huge colas about 5 feet up into the air and held its shape pretty dang well..
1601594244390.png
1601594113173.png1601594144130.png
 
Sour D from Dallas tx

Sour D from Dallas tx

Member
Update 2.5 weeks from roots showing through i feel like things are looking great ! I’m running around 850ppm and oh is steady water temps have gotten a lil high but hydrogaurd is doing its job. Kinda thought they would grow quicker but def in full force now and topped and tied down. Not sure if they should be dropping the water level more as they don’t seem to drop it in between res switches much? But other than that it all seems to be going fine !
 

Attachments

calvin.m16

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Sour D from Dallas tx said:
Update 2.5 weeks from roots showing through i feel like things are looking great ! I’m running around 850ppm and oh is steady water temps have gotten a lil high but hydrogaurd is doing its job. Kinda thought they would grow quicker but def in full force now and topped and tied down. Not sure if they should be dropping the water level more as they don’t seem to drop it in between res switches much? But other than that it all seems to be going fine !
Click to expand...
Looking fantastic. The roots not going all the way down is normal give it a couple weeks and that bucket will be full. Definitely keep Hydroguard in the reservoir at all times. What are your water temperatures and what doses of products are you adding to your bucket? Thanks.
 
Sour D from Dallas tx

Sour D from Dallas tx

Member
I’m also a bit confused as I’m running recirculating system and one bucket water level stays an inch or two higher than the second bucket and the first plant is about half the size of the second and roots are half size ? Is my water pump on to strong or too weak?
 
Sour D from Dallas tx

Sour D from Dallas tx

Member
Doubled in last week and I’m about to flip these girls along with some in soil. Question as i have searched web and can only find problems not what to do when shit is going right lol. So the ppms and ph is staying solid and the water has dropped considerably ! I hear this is perfect but can’t find the answer to the question should i add clean ro water only or should i add neut water to the ppm and ph level it is at now ? Please help me ASAP as i need to give these hulk ass girls some water for sure today ! Thanks in advance!
 

Attachments

calvin.m16

calvin.m16

Well-Known Member
Sour D from Dallas tx said:
I’m also a bit confused as I’m running recirculating system and one bucket water level stays an inch or two higher than the second bucket and the first plant is about half the size of the second and roots are half size ? Is my water pump on to strong or too weak?
Click to expand...
I wouldn't worry about the water level if its only a couple inches difference. Its good that you're being proactive though and trying to file down every rough edge.

Sour D from Dallas tx said:
Oh and res temps are ranging between 80 and 64 lol mostly around the 70-74 range though
Click to expand...
You definitely want your reservoir staying in the 65-75 range NEVER hotter. If your getting above 75 F I would consider adding a chiller to the system to keep it stable @ 68 F to avoid pathogens etc. Hydroguard will likely prevent that from happening anyways, its an EPIC bateria I tried recently with my Autopots. The only issue was it left way too much slime around and it likes to layer my airstones...
1603760418794.png
Botanicare HydroGuard aka Bacillus Amyloliquefaciens. I'll keep Hydroguard in my top feed from now on... lol.. Beautiful stuff but I cant have it clogging my hydro up.
Sour D from Dallas tx said:
Doubled in last week and I’m about to flip these girls along with some in soil. Question as i have searched web and can only find problems not what to do when shit is going right lol. So the ppms and ph is staying solid and the water has dropped considerably ! I hear this is perfect but can’t find the answer to the question should i add clean ro water only or should i add neut water to the ppm and ph level it is at now ? Please help me ASAP as i need to give these hulk ass girls some water for sure today ! Thanks in advance!
Click to expand...
Question as i have searched web and can only find problems not what to do when shit is going right lol.
Getting the correct answers is near impossible anymore with how many different products and conflicting variables there are. You're not alone here I'm in the same boat always and trust me it never ends for people like us that actually want to master the process.


Should i add clean ro water only or should i add neut water to the ppm and ph level it is at now
In a recirculating system you're going to have some issues with certain nutrients either not yet being taken up by the plant. What I personally did when I ran DWC was topped up the reservoir with half strength nutrient solution at the same ph. It would be a good idea to track your PPMs too to see how much food the ladies are eating. The AN PH Perfect should keep your PH in the 5.6-6.0 range for at least 7-10 days in my personal experience with both the AN 3 part (micro, grow & bloom) and the AN Connoisseur 2 part (Grow A+B, Bloom A+B).

You do have to be careful to not burn your plants with AN as its pretty strong stuff which is a good thing. I would honestly top the reservoir off with a bit diluted solution and try to hold steady PPM in your reservoir. The PH Perfect technology will stop working if you don't add enough.

With my AutoPot system I just simply top the res up with a freshly mixed 5 gallon batch of nutrients per/scheduled feed chart. Always double checking my PH is in the 5.6-6.2 zone.

I'm experimenting with some new nutrients as of now but AN Connoisseur will always be on my shelf.
 
Sour D from Dallas tx

Sour D from Dallas tx

Member
Ok sweet man yeah it’s not getting over 75 anymore thats for sure as it’s 44 in Dallas these days ! The only issue i see with not tipping off some is that I’m using 10 inch net pots for this one and so it leaves a smaller area for water than most but i am doing my weekly res change today so it’s all working great then i can only imagine in flower how this is about to drink daily lol
 
Sour D from Dallas tx

Sour D from Dallas tx

Member
calvin.m16 said:
Advanced Nutrients "ph perfect" adds quite a bit of ppm. 400-600 even for seedlings works good with AN. I was running 400-500 ppm seedling > 800-900 ppm veg and 1200 ppm bloom. I just noticed perfect frosty tips as I like to call them lol. FROSTED TIPS BRAH.
Click to expand...
Man i put 850 i believe and they freaked out so i added 2gal of ro water and they perked right back up ! Obvious pics of which is which ! And The second and third pic are the same plant 2 days apart I’m feeling stunned as this is first hydro grow and I’m afraid the plant is going to take over the space I’m trying this In becaue The other plant in the rdwc system is less than half its size just had a slow start ! And i threw three old school fabric pots in there just in cas i fucked it up and had to throw the hydro i knew I’m money In soil !
 

Attachments

myke

myke

Well-Known Member
Over the years I found if I keep my EC around 1 every day it would drop 20 ish ppm.pH would slowly rise from my starting point of 5.6 ish.If I upped the EC too much I found my pH wouldn't rise.
Take it for what its worth, ea system /room is different but Ive always followed the keep pH rising a point ea day.
Feeding on the low side also allows me to go longer between res changes,top ups I go about 1/2 strength or whatever it takes to get back to my target EC.I also top up daily.
I run rdwc with water falls and a small air pump.H202 @ 1ml/g twice a week.
Hope this helps.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Top