What Do You Believe?
- Thread starter TrippyReefer
- Start date
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
these discussions really take off...
i was quoted and replied to on the second page with something along the lines of "science does not disprove god" or some shit.
you might say that, but on many levels does it disprove the bible.
people try to justify dinosaurs by saying that they we a design god was improving which led to us.
please... if god were omnipotent then there would have never been evolution, there would have never have been the need for improvement. how can one so perfect design something so imperfect? there is no such thing as a perfect being, therefore god is not perfect, and if he is not perfect then he must not exist because the only version of god is a perfect one, which like i said earlier, does not exist.
simple logic, real logic, not one made up by creationists or whatever, is all you need. in math, science, logic and HISTORY, there has never been any evidence of god so why is that an option for a rational explanation for the universe?
it isn't..
i was quoted and replied to on the second page with something along the lines of "science does not disprove god" or some shit.
you might say that, but on many levels does it disprove the bible.
people try to justify dinosaurs by saying that they we a design god was improving which led to us.
please... if god were omnipotent then there would have never been evolution, there would have never have been the need for improvement. how can one so perfect design something so imperfect? there is no such thing as a perfect being, therefore god is not perfect, and if he is not perfect then he must not exist because the only version of god is a perfect one, which like i said earlier, does not exist.
simple logic, real logic, not one made up by creationists or whatever, is all you need. in math, science, logic and HISTORY, there has never been any evidence of god so why is that an option for a rational explanation for the universe?
it isn't..
TrippyReefer
Active Member
Do some shrooms and see where your mind goes. More often than not, God starts making sense and i cant explain it, you just have to try it for yourself.
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
excuse me? you're telling me that some story about a dude who got a woman pregnant, but really didn't, was actually the child concieved, who later died and came back to life. and all this happened before or after a snake talked to a man who made a woman from his rib, and this woman ate a fruit that blah blah burning bush, the oceans were created by rain, blah blah, noah and his reasonably impossible arch, dinosaur bones are there to test your faith, blah blah, carbon dating is false, blah blah
why would shrooms cause contradictions to make sense? maybe it's because something with so many faults, faults that are based upon standards in a quantifiable and measurable physical universe, doesn't make sense. if there was a god you wouldn't need fucking shrooms to make sense of him, if there was a god this world would be totally different, we would have to worry about fucking demons, shape shifters, the devil's countless minions that will come to tempt you,
absolutely every single argument, every single one you propose to justify god will have a fault, a contraction.
have at it
why would shrooms cause contradictions to make sense? maybe it's because something with so many faults, faults that are based upon standards in a quantifiable and measurable physical universe, doesn't make sense. if there was a god you wouldn't need fucking shrooms to make sense of him, if there was a god this world would be totally different, we would have to worry about fucking demons, shape shifters, the devil's countless minions that will come to tempt you,
absolutely every single argument, every single one you propose to justify god will have a fault, a contraction.
have at it
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
haha are you joking? i feel like people now in these times say that to try and justify it's ridiculous bullshit, yet i sincerely doubt at the time it was written they would say read this it's how the universe is explained, but it "isn't meant to be taken seriously"
pfft
in fact, especially since i have an pastor cousin, evangelists will most likely tell you that's how they are taught the world was made, and how it works.
pfft
in fact, especially since i have an pastor cousin, evangelists will most likely tell you that's how they are taught the world was made, and how it works.
blazin256
Well-Known Member
i said literally not seriously. the bible wasnt written all at once. it is a culmination of "inspired" texts. there was a lot of other texts not included. and it seems the first christians (or, more literally, jews) didnt take their commandments too literal either,with all the murder and adultery and burnt offerings, etc. any way, what the whole bible is is just a regurgitation of much older religions. thats why it isnt meant to be taken literally. why else would one book say one thing, and the next do the complete opposite? do you really think was no rainbows before "the flood" and that it was put here as a promise to never flood the world again?
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
okay man, good report on the history of the bible? it's relevance, who knows...
the things i mentioned that you are referring to are taken literal, show where it says that that isn't a literal teaching.. hmm? i doubt you could, what the fuck do you think kids are being taught in sunday school, or what priests talk about in church? hypothetical scenarios?
there's no fucking disclaimer in the bible, and you can't say that it isn't presented in a factual manner when jesus is being cuxified, when he's killed and returns from the dead (as you typically do). or when he walks on water, it's not taken figuratively, it's meant in a literal manner.
once again, pfffft.
the things i mentioned that you are referring to are taken literal, show where it says that that isn't a literal teaching.. hmm? i doubt you could, what the fuck do you think kids are being taught in sunday school, or what priests talk about in church? hypothetical scenarios?
there's no fucking disclaimer in the bible, and you can't say that it isn't presented in a factual manner when jesus is being cuxified, when he's killed and returns from the dead (as you typically do). or when he walks on water, it's not taken figuratively, it's meant in a literal manner.
once again, pfffft.
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
and i have no clue what you're on about, no rainbows or something?
blazin256
Well-Known Member
well heres somethin that may interest you. from matthew 13
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
heres the man himself saying what he taught the public was not the same he taught his disciples. so something you could really literally do is take a lot of his words and shove it. you think the church would teach that his real teachings were really secret? and mjss out on that tax free money? HAH
10The disciples came to him and asked, "Why do you speak to the people in parables?" 11He replied, "The knowledge of the secrets of the kingdom of heaven has been given to you, but not to them. 12Whoever has will be given more, and he will have an abundance. Whoever does not have, even what he has will be taken from him. 13This is why I speak to them in parables:
"Though seeing, they do not see;
though hearing, they do not hear or understand.
heres the man himself saying what he taught the public was not the same he taught his disciples. so something you could really literally do is take a lot of his words and shove it. you think the church would teach that his real teachings were really secret? and mjss out on that tax free money? HAH
DUBS Doobious
Active Member
He who searches for meaning in the external is not looking in the right places.
He who looks within himself can find true understanding.
He who looks within himself can find true understanding.
oOBe RyeOo
Active Member
Dude, crazy avatar... that looks tight.
blazin256
Well-Known Member
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
you missed the point by some margin...
actually read what i posted, i never mentioned jesus' disciples, never do i mention parables..
the little quotes you have by no means justify what i asked, look at my examples stop making your own up, they are irrelevant...
123grow
Active Member
I read the first few replies to this post. Then I decided that the only way for me to post my own opinion, uninfluenced by anyone else on here, is to skip what everyone else has said and just post it. So sorry if I'm beating an old path here.
I'm not religious. So I can't say I know all the things of religion. But weren't we supposed to be made in "His" image?? I mean, carbon dating tells you there are millions of years of history untouched by human beings. If God exists, he existed this whole time, so why would he be inclined to make inferior beings like dinosaurs, precambrian life forms, everything else, and then not only all of that, but destroy them all in seconds (asteroid??). Plus the fact that our world has gone through cycles of mass population by a certain dominion of animals/reptiles, had them all destroyed in some cataclysmic event, and then through millions of years of time turn around to find another species dominant of the planet just seems to point right towards evolution and scientific fact.
So then that sorta leads you around to well where did it all start? I personally choose to believe that the universe is always, will always be here, and has always been here. Everything we know has a start, and an end. We all die. All other living creatures die. and even on atomic levels molecules fade away and break down after their energy has been spent. The only thing that has ever been here the whole time is the universe.
So maybe god is the universe, and visa verse. Why can't religion and science take part? Maybe we all have half the puzzle. Instead of looking at the standing arguments of today, I've always loved humoring myself at preposterous ideas as of yet unheard of.
Now as a personal view, I find religion to be a bad thing. Make millions of people believe something, something that is tied into death and everything so you know it'll create a huge impression on their lives, and then see where it leads? We've had millions of wars caused specifically by religion in human history. There have been just so many racial issue, tension between countries, groups of people... Of course I'm generalizing, but the way I see it is this: Religion is faith. The thing that people pursue religion for is faith. You WANT to believe that there is something after death. You want to believe that there is something larger than yourself. You want to believe that this isn't it, that there is something more. I can relate: Just think about the time you turned a senior in high school or something similar. You thought oh shit, here we go, there isn't anything after this. Only uncertainty and mystery.
So you create religion to help you get through it. and it all sounds pleasing enough, and sure it makes sense, but yes I will follow along with the people who say its not logical. Do I have the answers? No.... But I know that whatever the answer is, it should have more rhyme or reason then just a bearded figure. I mean think about it. I am more inclined to believe dragons existed, because dragons are common amongst all people. They're in stories that date back centuries. God has many faces, many interpretations, and if you lived in the time of Egyptian kings, there were hundreds of GODS!
God and religion is invented to fulfill, to reassure you of the next thing, to help fill the void of what none of us will know.
But then I look at science, and i know that I'll be buried. Through decomposition my body will be returned into the ground on a molecular and atomic level. Being the only species for conscious thought, thought of ourselves, we're the only species to have invented some realm of possibility beyond life. I simply don't think that it works like that. If we were a dog, or a cat, or an elephant, or anything else, we wouldn't be doing ANYTHING! we would fulfill life's basic tasks such as eating and drinking and sleeping, and then when we die, we die. That's it.. over. nothing else
being a math guy, and science person, I don't like not having the answer. What happens after life honestly terrifies me. But I'm not going to create some sort of all powerful being or afterlife or heaven and hell or anything of the sort just to fill the void. That's cheating in my opinion. It's great to have faith, trust me I know, but I'd rather have faith that I'll be used as fertilizer for my weed plants, then to imagine living in the clouds with a bearded guy who's glowing, only to find out I've been terribly mistaken.
So pretty much, to sum it up, I'm going to live life. I'm not going to consider what happens next. Our life is the longest thing we will ever have. We won't consciously know of anything after it, so why worry? I was nervous when I started college, but then I started it and found out it was ok. Didn't know what to expect really, but I had faith in the system.
Whatever is behind all of it, I'm sure I'll find it out when it's my time to find out. until then, I can only make sure I do everything I can to live my life to the fullest.
.... By the way. Humans suck. A donkey would never cause an oil spill. and rabbit wouldn't hold someone up for money. Humans are ruining the planet, and that is a FACT. if we continue our current way of living, this planet will collapse. Just use your head to figure that out. It's obvious that we are at the same time the smartest and the dumbest creature around? So why would god create man, to destroy the planet he created in 7 days? I definitely would not paint a picture and intentionally set it outside just to see how it would turn out... but this is all speculation of course.
I'm not religious. So I can't say I know all the things of religion. But weren't we supposed to be made in "His" image?? I mean, carbon dating tells you there are millions of years of history untouched by human beings. If God exists, he existed this whole time, so why would he be inclined to make inferior beings like dinosaurs, precambrian life forms, everything else, and then not only all of that, but destroy them all in seconds (asteroid??). Plus the fact that our world has gone through cycles of mass population by a certain dominion of animals/reptiles, had them all destroyed in some cataclysmic event, and then through millions of years of time turn around to find another species dominant of the planet just seems to point right towards evolution and scientific fact.
So then that sorta leads you around to well where did it all start? I personally choose to believe that the universe is always, will always be here, and has always been here. Everything we know has a start, and an end. We all die. All other living creatures die. and even on atomic levels molecules fade away and break down after their energy has been spent. The only thing that has ever been here the whole time is the universe.
So maybe god is the universe, and visa verse. Why can't religion and science take part? Maybe we all have half the puzzle. Instead of looking at the standing arguments of today, I've always loved humoring myself at preposterous ideas as of yet unheard of.
Now as a personal view, I find religion to be a bad thing. Make millions of people believe something, something that is tied into death and everything so you know it'll create a huge impression on their lives, and then see where it leads? We've had millions of wars caused specifically by religion in human history. There have been just so many racial issue, tension between countries, groups of people... Of course I'm generalizing, but the way I see it is this: Religion is faith. The thing that people pursue religion for is faith. You WANT to believe that there is something after death. You want to believe that there is something larger than yourself. You want to believe that this isn't it, that there is something more. I can relate: Just think about the time you turned a senior in high school or something similar. You thought oh shit, here we go, there isn't anything after this. Only uncertainty and mystery.
So you create religion to help you get through it. and it all sounds pleasing enough, and sure it makes sense, but yes I will follow along with the people who say its not logical. Do I have the answers? No.... But I know that whatever the answer is, it should have more rhyme or reason then just a bearded figure. I mean think about it. I am more inclined to believe dragons existed, because dragons are common amongst all people. They're in stories that date back centuries. God has many faces, many interpretations, and if you lived in the time of Egyptian kings, there were hundreds of GODS!
God and religion is invented to fulfill, to reassure you of the next thing, to help fill the void of what none of us will know.
But then I look at science, and i know that I'll be buried. Through decomposition my body will be returned into the ground on a molecular and atomic level. Being the only species for conscious thought, thought of ourselves, we're the only species to have invented some realm of possibility beyond life. I simply don't think that it works like that. If we were a dog, or a cat, or an elephant, or anything else, we wouldn't be doing ANYTHING! we would fulfill life's basic tasks such as eating and drinking and sleeping, and then when we die, we die. That's it.. over. nothing else
being a math guy, and science person, I don't like not having the answer. What happens after life honestly terrifies me. But I'm not going to create some sort of all powerful being or afterlife or heaven and hell or anything of the sort just to fill the void. That's cheating in my opinion. It's great to have faith, trust me I know, but I'd rather have faith that I'll be used as fertilizer for my weed plants, then to imagine living in the clouds with a bearded guy who's glowing, only to find out I've been terribly mistaken.
So pretty much, to sum it up, I'm going to live life. I'm not going to consider what happens next. Our life is the longest thing we will ever have. We won't consciously know of anything after it, so why worry? I was nervous when I started college, but then I started it and found out it was ok. Didn't know what to expect really, but I had faith in the system.
Whatever is behind all of it, I'm sure I'll find it out when it's my time to find out. until then, I can only make sure I do everything I can to live my life to the fullest.
.... By the way. Humans suck. A donkey would never cause an oil spill. and rabbit wouldn't hold someone up for money. Humans are ruining the planet, and that is a FACT. if we continue our current way of living, this planet will collapse. Just use your head to figure that out. It's obvious that we are at the same time the smartest and the dumbest creature around? So why would god create man, to destroy the planet he created in 7 days? I definitely would not paint a picture and intentionally set it outside just to see how it would turn out... but this is all speculation of course.
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
great post 123grow, something different and thought out properly.
your last paragraph is very true and i fully agree, and one point i'd like to add is that the idea that this life is almost insignificant, that your future life in heaven is all that matters, people think of Earth as insignificant. i can't remember how many times i've heard assholes say "who cares about drilling for oil, we're all going to die and go to heaven"... it's a generally a bad mentality to have
and if there is a god, and there was a creator or creators, and maybe it fits within the natural universe as it is, and maybe they have to abide by the physical laws we live by, but never will there ever be a place for the BIBLE and science, no way.
the bible and it's teachings are almost the antithesis of science. apply the scientific method to any of the ideas in the bible that are presented as facts, try it
if science and the bible go hand in hand, you have to add fairies, cyclops, Hercules, peter pan, harry potter and any other simple tale that has no empirical evidence, not only does that not make any sense, it's downright stupid.
we don't live in a time where we can't explain geological processes, or know simple things about our world and universe. but we don't need something like religion that leads logical, knowledge seeking people to more confusion.
as a child these things didn't make sense to me, but that's because my parents never took to me to church or told me that i would loose my potential life in heaven if i wacked off.
your last paragraph is very true and i fully agree, and one point i'd like to add is that the idea that this life is almost insignificant, that your future life in heaven is all that matters, people think of Earth as insignificant. i can't remember how many times i've heard assholes say "who cares about drilling for oil, we're all going to die and go to heaven"... it's a generally a bad mentality to have
and if there is a god, and there was a creator or creators, and maybe it fits within the natural universe as it is, and maybe they have to abide by the physical laws we live by, but never will there ever be a place for the BIBLE and science, no way.
the bible and it's teachings are almost the antithesis of science. apply the scientific method to any of the ideas in the bible that are presented as facts, try it
if science and the bible go hand in hand, you have to add fairies, cyclops, Hercules, peter pan, harry potter and any other simple tale that has no empirical evidence, not only does that not make any sense, it's downright stupid.
we don't live in a time where we can't explain geological processes, or know simple things about our world and universe. but we don't need something like religion that leads logical, knowledge seeking people to more confusion.
as a child these things didn't make sense to me, but that's because my parents never took to me to church or told me that i would loose my potential life in heaven if i wacked off.
DUBS Doobious
Active Member
This guys is so right on.
TrippyReefer
Active Member
Theres so much ignorance here, but im glad there are some people people here that know what theyre talking about..
watch "through the wormhole", itll blow your mind.
watch "through the wormhole", itll blow your mind.
upthearsenal
Well-Known Member
right.. ignorance..