What is your faith and beliefs? What do you trust? Whats your spirituality? O.M.G.

mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
skuba said:
It's what animates the material nature. You know the difference between dead and alive. The definition for "energy" or "force" doesn't fit it, so we have "spirit."
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The problem is that we know much about how living things move, metabolize and so forth. There is no magical life-force or unknown energy operating here. You are making an existential claim. I ask you to define and identify it and all you give me is a restatement of a description. You have not actually defined anything or demonstrated this is anything real and exists.

Do YOU know the difference between alive and not alive? Are you able to make a clear cut division or is it a blurry line depending on our definitions?

http://www.ted.com/talks/martin_hanczyc_the_line_between_life_and_not_life. html

[video=youtube;dySwrhMQdX4]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dySwrhMQdX4[/video]
 
Nevaeh420

Nevaeh420

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:

This is far greater than the idea of any man made god.
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Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.

Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that?

Basically I know that an intelligent designer created everything and I call Him God. I believe He always was and is now and forever will be. You all know that there is a higher power, even if its aliens. Not that aliens are God but aliens are most likely far more higher and powerful. I believe God lives inside each one of us. I also believe we are gods in a VERY FUNNY WAY! Not that we are God but rather His children.

We just dont know what or who created everything and why. You might think you know but your entitled to your OPINION!

~PEACE~
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Nevaeh420 said:
Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.

Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that?

Basically I know that an intelligent designer created everything and I call Him God. I believe He always was and is now and forever will be. You all know that there is a higher power, even if its aliens. Not that aliens are God but aliens are most likely far more higher and powerful. I believe God lives inside each one of us. I also believe we are gods in a VERY FUNNY WAY! Not that we are God but rather His children.

We just dont know what or who created everything and why. You might think you know but your entitled to your OPINION!

~PEACE~
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You can't fathom that the universe might have always existed, it's not acceptable to you. Yet, your argument is based upon the assertion that a deity has always existed.

Do you realize how retarded that is?

Cut god out of the equation, and say the universe has always existed. No need for the supernatural at all.

Human things need creators, things in nature do not.
 
Nevaeh420

Nevaeh420

Well-Known Member
Beefbisquit said:
You can't fathom that the universe might have always existed, it's not acceptable to you. Yet, your argument is based upon the assertion that a deity has always existed.

Do you realize how retarded that is?

Cut god out of the equation, and say the universe has always existed. No need for the supernatural at all.

Human things need creators, things in nature do not.
Click to expand...
I believe in a multiverse; Where universes pop in and out of existance like stars do. The multiverse might have almost "always" existed but there had to be a first universe. There had to have been a beginning of some sorts.

I cant cut God out of the equation because I believe someone needed to start it all. I dont know what God is exactly, but I do believe that He started it all. Maybe He is a force of intelligence with love and creation in mind? I'm not a believer in the supernatural, but when it comes to creation I do believe there was a beginning with a Beginner! I dont know where God is but maybe He is inside the center of us all? our consciousness? I honestly dont know God but I believe He knows Me.

And how could the universe always exist when science says that there was the big bang? It allegedly started out at a point of singularity and than expanded into the ~200 billion galaxies, ~156 billion light years wide. The universe (according to scientists) is roughly 13.7 billion years old; so there was a beginning roughly 14 billion years ago!

Do you know something about the age of the universe that I dont know?

I do believe most things can be explained but not all things like creation. If there is a creation than there is a Creator!

And if God (or whatever in your case) can create one universe than whos to say He didnt create an infinite amount of them?

"Do you realize how retarded that is?"

~PEACE~
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Nevaeh420 said:
Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.

Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that?

Basically I know that an intelligent designer created everything and I call Him God. I believe He always was and is now and forever will be. You all know that there is a higher power, even if its aliens. Not that aliens are God but aliens are most likely far more higher and powerful. I believe God lives inside each one of us. I also believe we are gods in a VERY FUNNY WAY! Not that we are God but rather His children.

We just dont know what or who created everything and why. You might think you know but your entitled to your OPINION!

~PEACE~
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Look, man.. I don't have the time to go over this with you, please don't take offense, it's just the way it is.. I've done it dozens of times with people, at this point I just don't care anymore.. I leave it up to you to hold yourself responsible to figure this stuff out.. It's just too time consuming.

I would suggest you utilize the internet, like I said before, ask big questions, if we don't already know the answers, find out how close to the answer we do know and read about that. Read the biographies of the scientists who discover these things, read about the applications their discoveries eventually led to.

All of this is so much more than the unexplainable magic of some supreme being being in charge.. I wish people like you could just see that.. Existence doesn't have to be as bad as people make it out to be, we don't need to be saved because there is nothing be saved from. We're simply a consequence of circumstances that happens to be aware of its own existence. I wish you could see that you hold onto and perpetuate a system of rule centuries old originally designed to keep lower classes of people in line and under monarch rule. That millions of people have been put to death in the name of the very same omnipotent being the Abrahamic religions worship. That if there were such a being, simple logic wouldn't defeat the idea of it. That you can be so much more than a drone who believes in ancient misguided disconnected practices...
 
Nevaeh420

Nevaeh420

Well-Known Member
Padawanbater2 said:
Look, man.. I don't have the time to go over this with you, please don't take offense, it's just the way it is.. I've done it dozens of times with people, at this point I just don't care anymore.. I leave it up to you to hold yourself responsible to figure this stuff out.. It's just too time consuming.

I would suggest you utilize the internet, like I said before, ask big questions, if we don't already know the answers, find out how close to the answer we do know and read about that. Read the biographies of the scientists who discover these things, read about the applications their discoveries eventually led to.

All of this is so much more than the unexplainable magic of some supreme being being in charge.. I wish people like you could just see that.. Existence doesn't have to be as bad as people make it out to be, we don't need to be saved because there is nothing be saved from. We're simply a consequence of circumstances that happens to be aware of its own existence. I wish you could see that you hold onto and perpetuate a system of rule centuries old originally designed to keep lower classes of people in line and under monarch rule. That millions of people have been put to death in the name of the very same omnipotent being the Abrahamic religions worship. That if there were such a being, simple logic wouldn't defeat the idea of it. That you can be so much more than a drone who believes in ancient misguided disconnected practices...
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I like(d) your answer but I still choose to believe in God. But why? Well I have since I was a kid and I always will believe in God.

It gives Me purpose and meaning to My life. I dont go to church or even believe in Jesus. I just believe in God; I cant really explain why!

Thanks for your sentiment though! I appreciate you trying to "unleash" Me but I like believing in God. Where you an athiest all your life? What made you have the transition?

I do know religion is a money making scandle though! I frown upon religion and especially most of the leaders of the church!

There will always be athiests and believers! I choose to be an agnostic!

~PEACE~
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Nevaeh420 said:
Yes, there are man made gods but God made man.

Science can not answer the question of how and why did everything come to being? You might say the big bang, but who engineered it? Why and how did everything come from nothing? And what or who was before that?

Basically I know that an intelligent designer created everything and I call Him God.
Click to expand...
Impossible. How could you possibly KNOW such a thing? Did God tell you this? This is just another example of being caught in another lie. You are not agnostic.
I believe He always was and is now and forever will be. You all know that there is a higher power, even if its aliens. Not that aliens are God but aliens are most likely far more higher and powerful. I believe God lives inside each one of us. I also believe we are gods in a VERY FUNNY WAY! Not that we are God but rather His children.

We just dont know what or who created everything and why. You might think you know but your entitled to your OPINION!
Click to expand...
We not only don't know what or who created everything, we have no reason to think that things were created and we have a lot of good reasons to think that everything came about naturally.

There is nothing you can point to in nature that demonstrates intelligence can come about spontaneously without coming from simpler, non-intelligent forms of life. You seem to think that some intelligent agent can just exist without first having had more primitive ancestors that evolved and that goes against science and rational sense. Your whole belief is a fallacy called begging the question. You assume a priori that an intelligent creator started everything rather than come to that conclusion through reason and evidence. This is [merely one reason] why your beliefs and ramblings can easily be ignored by critical thinking individuals.

And how could the universe always exist when science says that there was the big bang? It allegedly started out at a point of singularity and than expanded into the ~200 billion galaxies, ~156 billion light years wide. The universe (according to scientists) is roughly 13.7 billion years old; so there was a beginning roughly 14 billion years ago!
Click to expand...
All we know about the big bang is what occurred moments after the universe began expanding. We have no idea what it was like before that. We cannot know if the universe always existed in the small, hot, dense state that preceded the big bang. There is no reason that it couldn't have existed for eternity. How can you justify claiming that an eternally existing intelligence preceded the formation of a universe but you cannot comprehend how something, as simple and such low entropy as the early universe could have always existed?
 
cannabineer

cannabineer

Ursus marijanus
skuba said:
It's what animates the material nature. You know the difference between dead and alive. The definition for "energy" or "force" doesn't fit it, so we have "spirit."
Click to expand...
This concept is called "vitalism". For the last two centuries, chemistry has been its most merciless scourge. cn
 
Beefbisquit

Beefbisquit

Well-Known Member
Nevaeh420 said:
I believe in a multiverse; Where universes pop in and out of existance like stars do. The multiverse might have almost "always" existed but there had to be a first universe. There had to have been a beginning of some sorts.

I cant cut God out of the equation because I believe someone needed to start it all. I dont know what God is exactly, but I do believe that He started it all. Maybe He is a force of intelligence with love and creation in mind? I'm not a believer in the supernatural, but when it comes to creation I do believe there was a beginning with a Beginner! I dont know where God is but maybe He is inside the center of us all? our consciousness? I honestly dont know God but I believe He knows Me.

And how could the universe always exist when science says that there was the big bang? It allegedly started out at a point of singularity and than expanded into the ~200 billion galaxies, ~156 billion light years wide. The universe (according to scientists) is roughly 13.7 billion years old; so there was a beginning roughly 14 billion years ago!

Do you know something about the age of the universe that I dont know?

I do believe most things can be explained but not all things like creation. If there is a creation than there is a Creator!

And if God (or whatever in your case) can create one universe than whos to say He didnt create an infinite amount of them?

"Do you realize how retarded that is?"

~PEACE~
Click to expand...
The universe started. as we know it some 13 billion years ago. We have no idea what existed before that; you are speculating that it was created but have zero basis for that assertion.

Ever hear of the big crunch? The universe infinitely expands and collapses. Forever. No creation, no creator.

You are equating what you know about human created things and turning them at nature. Watches need creators, desks and chairs need creators, airplanes need creators. We have seen zero evidence that says matter and energy need a creator. In fact, we have a ton of evidence that says they can neither be created nor destroyed.

More than anything please respond to this, you skipped past it in your response.

You're claiming that everything needs a creator - EXCEPT god. Your argument as to how the universe got here is based on your statement that everything needs a creator, but you just say 'fuck it' when it comes to explaining god. You are content with your ignorance concerning god, but NEED some form of explanation when it comes to energy and matter. What the fuck, man? Do you not see your insanely easy to spot biases and fallacies?

Why does the universe need a creator to make sense, yet god doesn't? How can you claim it's impossible for the universe to be eternal, but you claim an eternal being created it? You are completely contradicting yourself. It makes no sense, whatsoever.
 
skuba

skuba

Well-Known Member
NietzscheKeen said:
WTF?!?!? It absolutely is.....

OUCH Jesus! That last sentence hurt me deep in my soul i.e. the seat of my emotions i.e. my brain (more or less). We can do some simple thought experiments to determine where the soul is and isn't, if you'd like?

Help yourself to a neuroscience class. I will send you my old text books if you'd like. There is nothing about us as humans or any other animals that cannot be explained completely by brain function and/or the nervous and adrenal system.

Just do a jstor search or go to your nearest university library and head to the journal section if you want evidence.
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I realize the systems are controlled by the brain, i should have rephrased that sentence as to not sound like such a retard.

As far as cell growth goes, you're saying that is due to the brain? What about the grass and trees? single celled organisms?

and thank you guys for your input, you all have good arguments and obviously i'm not too educated as far as neuroscience goes. here to learn.

and i'm not communicating my point clearly anyways so fuck it, we're not going to convince each other either way. agree to disagree
 
Nevaeh420

Nevaeh420

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
Impossible. How could you possibly KNOW such a thing? Did God tell you this? This is just another example of being caught in another lie. You are not agnostic.

We not only don't know what or who created everything, we have no reason to think that things were created and we have a lot of good reasons to think that everything came about naturally.

There is nothing you can point to in nature that demonstrates intelligence can come about spontaneously without coming from simpler, non-intelligent forms of life. You seem to think that some intelligent agent can just exist without first having had more primitive ancestors that evolved and that goes against science and rational sense. Your whole belief is a fallacy called begging the question. You assume a priori that an intelligent creator started everything rather than come to that conclusion through reason and evidence. This is [merely one reason] why your beliefs and ramblings can easily be ignored by critical thinking individuals.

All we know about the big bang is what occurred moments after the universe began expanding. We have no idea what it was like before that. We cannot know if the universe always existed in the small, hot, dense state that preceded the big bang. There is no reason that it couldn't have existed for eternity. How can you justify claiming that an eternally existing intelligence preceded the formation of a universe but you cannot comprehend how something, as simple and such low entropy as the early universe could have always existed?
Click to expand...
Mindpunk O Mindpunk!

How do you punk your mind?

I just dont feel like debating with you right now!

Christ loves you!

Beefbisquit said:
The universe started. as we know it some 13 billion years ago. We have no idea what existed before that; you are speculating that it was created but have zero basis for that assertion.

Ever hear of the big crunch? The universe infinitely expands and collapses. Forever. No creation, no creator.

You are equating what you know about human created things and turning them at nature. Watches need creators, desks and chairs need creators, airplanes need creators. We have seen zero evidence that says matter and energy need a creator. In fact, we have a ton of evidence that says they can neither be created nor destroyed.

More than anything please respond to this, you skipped past it in your response.

You're claiming that everything needs a creator - EXCEPT god. Your argument as to how the universe got here is based on your statement that everything needs a creator, but you just say 'fuck it' when it comes to explaining god. You are content with your ignorance concerning god, but NEED some form of explanation when it comes to energy and matter. What the fuck, man? Do you not see your insanely easy to spot biases and fallacies?

Why does the universe need a creator to make sense, yet god doesn't? How can you claim it's impossible for the universe to be eternal, but you claim an eternal being created it? You are completely contradicting yourself. It makes no sense, whatsoever.
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I honestly dont know if there was a beginning to the universe or not, but I can only assume. Maybe it is a big crunch like you said, IDK. I just FIGURE that there had to have been a Creator for all of this creation! Maybe I FIGURE wrong, IDK! Who really knows anyways, right?

"In fact, we have a ton of evidence that says they can neither be created nor destroyed."

Good point. Maybe it always existed during other cycles of "the big crunch"? Maybe! IDK.

"You're claiming that everything needs a creator - EXCEPT god".


Good point again. I dont know about the origins of God but there has to be a God. I dont think I ever will fathom how God came into being, but thats if God exists. Like I said, I never meet God so I dont know Him personally but if He exists than He knows Me and thats what matters, right? I'm not going to act like I know everything because I dont know anything. I cant explain God but I do believe He exists. Why you might ask? Because its an innate feeling I have. I cant prove Him. But I can prove Myself and I believe He lives inside of Me.


"Why does the universe need a creator to make sense, yet god doesn't? How can you claim it's impossible for the universe to be eternal, but you claim an eternal being created it? You are completely contradicting yourself. It makes no sense, whatsoever."

Its a paradox isnt it? What came first, the chicken or the egg? or was it the cock/rooster? I cant answer that question with certainty. Who really knows? I'm only 27 years old and I honestly wasnt around when the singularity expanded into what it is today.

I can say for certain that I just dont know, I can only speculate My opinions from the knowlege that I have learned from science. And I'm no scientist. When you find out that someone has all the answers to these questions than relay that information to Me. Until than, one quess is as good as the other because it cant be proven YET; and it may never be.

Christ loves you!

~PEACE~
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Nevaeh420 -

Its a paradox isnt it? What came first, the chicken or the egg? or was it the cock/rooster? I cant answer that question with certainty. Who really knows? I'm only 27 years old and I honestly wasnt around when the singularity expanded into what it is today.

The egg. Two non-chicken parents made a mutated chicken egg -

[video=youtube;9k9h0836-CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k9h0836-CE[/video]

I can say for certain that I just dont know, I can only speculate My opinions from the knowlege that I have learned from science. And I'm no scientist. When you find out that someone has all the answers to these questions than relay that information to Me. Until than, one quess is as good as the other because it cant be proven YET; and it may never be.


Christ loves you!

~PEACE~


Why do you pretend to have scientific knowledge? There is NO scientific data that points to evidence of a creator. In fact, everything so far is explained without the need for a creator, and it is absolutely unscientific to posit one. I know you have the belief and feeling that there's a creator (big surprise since you were inundated with that belief from childhood), but please don't insult the scientific method by saying that your belief and opinions on the matter are scientific. They are the opposite...
 
Dislexicmidget2021

Dislexicmidget2021

Well-Known Member
tyler.durden said:
Nevaeh420 -

Its a paradox isnt it? What came first, the chicken or the egg? or was it the cock/rooster? I cant answer that question with certainty. Who really knows? I'm only 27 years old and I honestly wasnt around when the singularity expanded into what it is today.

The egg. Two non-chicken parents made a mutated chicken egg -

[video=youtube;9k9h0836-CE]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9k9h0836-CE[/video]

I can say for certain that I just dont know, I can only speculate My opinions from the knowlege that I have learned from science. And I'm no scientist. When you find out that someone has all the answers to these questions than relay that information to Me. Until than, one quess is as good as the other because it cant be proven YET; and it may never be.


Christ loves you!

~PEACE~


Why do you pretend to have scientific knowledge? There is NO scientific data that points to evidence of a creator. In fact, everything so far is explained without the need for a creator, and it is absolutely unscientific to posit one. I know you have the belief and feeling that there's a creator (big surprise since you were inundated with that belief from childhood), but please don't insult the scientific method by saying that your belief and opinions on the matter are scientific. They are the opposite...
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He has an egotistical complex,He is afterall the Son of God scientist and telling him other wise only brings his hands to hid ears as he starts chattering jibberish really quick to himself to forget what he has just read.He wants to stay in his special happy land forever.
 
Padawanbater2

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Dislexicmidget2021 said:
He has an egotistical complex,He is afterall the Son of God scientist and telling him other wise only brings his hands to hid ears as he starts chattering jibberish really quick to himself to forget what he has just read.He wants to stay in his special happy land forever.
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Imo, he's done dealing with ignorance from unqualified people, he's been one of the leading biological scientists in the world for over 3 decades and his discipline is one of the main topics that gets debated in science because people think biology is subjective. His reaction is completely understandable.

How would you feel if for 30 years you've been telling people 2+2=4 and they've insisted you're wrong? Not only that but they've called you immoral for teaching it and said you're going to Hell to burn forever? Do you think it would make you feel a little bit annoyed if you spent over a decade in advanced formal education from one of the best universities in the world studying something everyday, day in day out, then someone who has never spent a single day in a college classroom tells you their opinion on the subject is just as valid as yours is?
 
Indagrow

Indagrow

Well-Known Member
I trust in myself only, and some faith in humanity.. I could never be a shave to a god in this life without proof it would pay off, not to torch anyone but I feel like church is for the scared...those who cannot do it on their own. I was raised catholic, and went to a private catholic high school and still feel this way. That's why church is really just elderly aerobics, scared of death and the unknown they flock to a higher power that will make everything okay. Ponder our creation and existence and you will let the now pass you by, I'm living now and making the best of it. Always open minded tho...
 
tyler.durden

tyler.durden

Well-Known Member
Dislexicmidget2021 said:
He has an egotistical complex,He is afterall the Son of God scientist and telling him other wise only brings his hands to hid ears as he starts chattering jibberish really quick to himself to forget what he has just read.He wants to stay in his special happy land forever.
Click to expand...
Padawanbater2 said:
Imo, he's done dealing with ignorance from unqualified people, he's been one of the leading biological scientists in the world for over 3 decades and his discipline is one of the main topics that gets debated in science because people think biology is subjective. His reaction is completely understandable.

How would you feel if for 30 years you've been telling people 2+2=4 and they've insisted you're wrong? Not only that but they've called you immoral for teaching it and said you're going to Hell to burn forever? Do you think it would make you feel a little bit annoyed if you spent over a decade in advanced formal education from one of the best universities in the world studying something everyday, day in day out, then someone who has never spent a single day in a college classroom tells you their opinion on the subject is just as valid as yours is?
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LOL! Pad, I believe DM was referring to Neveah in his post, too many pronouns gets confusing. Nice righteous defense of Dawkins, though ;)
 
Skuxx

Skuxx

Well-Known Member
I don't have any beliefs at all because if you have a particular belief, then that closes your mind to any other belief. For example, if you believe jesus was the only son of god or whatever the story is, and that his mom had an immaculate conception.... then that closes your mind to the belief that jesus was just a regular human being... or if you believe that jesus was just a regular human being like us, then that closes your mind to the belief that he really was the only son of god and his mom was impregnated by god.... or if you believe in god then that closes your mind to the belief that there is no god.
 
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