What strains were popular in the 60s and 70s?

Jogro

Well-Known Member
My buddy found a stash of a hundred or so seeds labeled redbud. He thinks they are from the 70's. not too sure, they are old though for sure. We were going to try and germ them for the hell of it... Who knows if one or two may actually pop. I blast from the past. Either way its gonna be fun trying and in reality, that's what it's all about. Well for me anyway. Peace!
Apparently after about 20 years viability on ceeds goes WAY down, especially if stored at room temp.

So as I'm sure you already know the likelihood of you successfully germinating any of these is slim.

I'd still try, of course.

If you're "serious" about it, make sure you try to germ them under "perfect" temp and moisture conditions, perhaps using an antifungal to help prevent rot. You may also want to allow LOTS of extra time for them to grow. Sometimes old seeds can still germ after a prolonged incubation of more than 7-10 days.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
Obviously, most of the stuff being imported in bulk into the USA in the 1960s and 70s was schwagg, and the schwagg from the 1970s was, if anything "schwaggier" because it wasn't hand manicured, leafier, and full of stems and ceeds. So I agree with the first part of that.

As to the second part, the question here, I think, is just how does the BEST of the outdoor grown stuff from the 1970s compare to the stuff around today.

Fortunately, we don't have to "guess" or even rely on hazy smoke-filled memories from the '70s. Many of the classic 1970s strains are still around, people are still growing them, and with the advent of lab-based testing its possible to do OBJECTIVE comparisons against modern hybrid strains. Also note that he really best of stuff from the 70s was seedless (ie "sinsemilla"), so it was more comparable in appearance and quality to what's grown today.

Not surprisingly to people who actually smoked these back in the day, if you do the comparison, you can see why the "famous" name strains from the 1970s were famous. . .they actually do hold their own. They may not be easy to grow indoors under lights, but grown right, the BEST of the 70s era genetics seem to be every bit as good as the better stuff grown today. Don't take my word for it. Here's some published test results on recent grows of classic "name" 70s era strains being sold at dispensaries in CA:

Highland Thai: 22% THC
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130417L018

Panama red: 23% THC
http://www.delta9seattle.org/menu/flower/panama-red/#!lightbox/0/

Maui Wowie: 18-22% THC
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130507W009
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130521S009

Jamaican Lamb's "bread" ("breath"): 15-22% THC
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=120116R006
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130409V036
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130426X027
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130528U008

Durban Poison 16-22% THC
This African strain wasn't readily available to American smokers in the 1970s, but the line definitely goes back there.
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=121114U004
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=121212P001
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130207K018

Acapulco Gold 12-25.5%(!!) THC
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=130123T003
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=121105R030
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=121105R030
http://www.scanalytical.com/index.php?option=com_scl_tested&task=sample&Itemid=359&sample=121016J029

Maybe the older lines aren't QUITE as strong as the absolutely most potent of "clone only" lines that can test in the high 20s, but IMO anything getting into the 20% THC range is still pretty damn strong, and at 22% as good (if not better than) most of the "OGs" and other modern hybrid strains that people rave about.

The outdoor lines are also inbred, stable, tend to have at least medium yields, and if grown in their native environments pest and disease resistant; things that probably can't be said about many of the super "elite" strains.

Yeah, you said it yourself, clone only doesn't exemplify every strain.

I can grow out 1000 ditch weeds and end up with a clone that isn't ditch weed.

Another really huge thing is handling. By the time some bud gets from Columbia to the USA in the 70's you can bet your bottom dollar it had gone through hell in a hand basket. Yes it was still much better than the brick, but once again it was mistreated for thousands of miles. Sure, there are plenty of landrace strains with plenty of potential but they were far from maximized.

My uncle and father (on my father's 10 acres) grew Columbian Gold and "red hair sinse" (panama red) throughout the 70's and 80's.
They also used to take an annual trip down to the Yucatan, where they would remove the interior lights in my father's van, and pack the entire ceiling with buds to bring back. As far as it goes I grew up with South and Central American strains. During all this is when real skunk hit the market, and I would take legit skunk over any of those old strains any day of the week.
 

Baywatcher

Well-Known Member
Regarding viability, I found a plastic container full of seeds I bred around 1993 that had been under a chair cushion for 12-13 years. I gave them to a grower friend, since I wasn't growing at the time, and he got around 50% success with them (mostly Skunk #1 x Big Bud, and pure Big Bud).
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Yeah, you said it yourself, clone only doesn't exemplify every strain.
These "clone" onlys aren't even really "strains" in any real sense of the term. They're just exceptional individual hybrid plants.

Another really huge thing is handling. By the time some bud gets from Columbia to the USA in the 70's you can bet your bottom dollar it had gone through hell in a hand basket. Yes it was still much better than the brick, but once again it was mistreated for thousands of miles. Sure, there are plenty of landrace strains with plenty of potential but they were far from maximized.
Well to be clear, my understanding is that almost all of the Columbian import WAS bricked. It was mostly bud with little stems and ceeds, but bricked nevertheless. By itself bricking isn't terribly harmful to buds, it actually tends to protect them from oxidation and humidity. The main thing is how/when they're bricked (ie are they properly cured first?) and what happens to them along the way AFTER they've been bricked.

So along those lines, on preservation, I think this really depends a lot on the shipment in question. Remember this was in the pre-border, pre-TSA era when it was still possible and commercially viable to smuggle things in quantity via ship or even prop plane. Stuff that was high quality and expensive was undoubtedly treated well, not like cheap pennies a pound schwagg, and imported and distributed fairly quickly.

Also, as a matter of record, if you're really talking about the best of the best landraces, very limited amounts of these ever really made it into the USA, compared to literal tons of schwagg-quality Mexican. Shipments of the really good stuff were probably earmarked and sold before they even arrived.

Panama Red, for example, was only really imported into the USA for a few years, and even then in limited quantity. Most of the country never saw ANY of it; it was virtually mythical. The Columbian did get here in more quantity, but it was also only for a relatively short time period of a few years. But most of these nice landraces were localized to big cities.

My uncle and father (on my father's 10 acres) grew Columbian Gold and "red hair sinse" (panama red) throughout the 70's and 80's.
Well, consider that Columbia literally crosses the equator and Panama is only a few degrees to its North. That means even in dead of winter, you don't get less than 11 hours per day of sunlight there.

As a strain, Columbian Gold/Santa Marta is an equatorial sativa that takes 18-22 weeks to finish properly. In most of the USA frost comes long before the plants are done, and there is NO part of the USA that has the appropriate 11 hour winter light cycles the plant "needs" to finish up in winter. The same is true of Panama Red/Punto Roja, though I think that one finishes a little faster.

Also consider that in the Columbian highlands, the temp stays typically stays between 62 and 75F 24-7-365. There may be a few parts of the USA where that is true (eg Hawaii, which is known for its own awesome buds), but so far as I know, there is nowhere outdoors in the continental USA where you have those temps and the same light cycle as near the equator.

So with due respect, unless your dad and uncle were growing it in the Columbian highlands or elsewhere in elevated Central/South America, they probably weren't really realizing the full genetic potential of the plants in question, and its more than likely that their results simply didn't stack up to the best native- outdoor-grown stuff.

That aside, I don't mean to quibble here.

My only point is that this idea that today's bud blows away everything before it, is just empirically false. The best of the best from years gone may not be quite as good as the best of the best of today, but I think its nearly there, and if you could do the "time travel Pepsi challenge", I think it would hold up on its own merits. To my view, the biggest difference, is just that really top notch stuff is the NORM today and readily available, where as it was the rare exception in years past.
 

lilroach

Well-Known Member
Jogrow......I lived in many places in the US in the 70's (compliment of the USN) and you are correct that there were good strains back then, and also correct that getting one's hands on them was tough.

In both San Diego and Norfolk Va, you can always tell when a ship came in from overseas. In San Diego Thai-stick was easy to hide on the ships and wonderful to smoke. In Norfolk we were blessed with a ship's return with Lebanese hash that would rival anything we make today.

When the ships were out to sea....we smoked swag.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
These "clone" onlys aren't even really "strains" in any real sense of the term. They're just exceptional individual hybrid plants.


Well to be clear, my understanding is that almost all of the Columbian import WAS bricked. It was mostly bud with little stems and ceeds, but bricked nevertheless. By itself bricking isn't terribly harmful to buds, it actually tends to protect them from oxidation and humidity. The main thing is how/when they're bricked (ie are they properly cured first?) and what happens to them along the way AFTER they've been bricked.

So along those lines, on preservation, I think this really depends a lot on the shipment in question. Remember this was in the pre-border, pre-TSA era when it was still possible and commercially viable to smuggle things in quantity via ship or even prop plane. Stuff that was high quality and expensive was undoubtedly treated well, not like cheap pennies a pound schwagg, and imported and distributed fairly quickly.

Also, as a matter of record, if you're really talking about the best of the best landraces, very limited amounts of these ever really made it into the USA, compared to literal tons of schwagg-quality Mexican. Shipments of the really good stuff were probably earmarked and sold before they even arrived.

Panama Red, for example, was only really imported into the USA for a few years, and even then in limited quantity. Most of the country never saw ANY of it; it was virtually mythical. The Columbian did get here in more quantity, but it was also only for a relatively short time period of a few years. But most of these nice landraces were localized to big cities.


Well, consider that Columbia literally crosses the equator and Panama is only a few degrees to its North. That means even in dead of winter, you don't get less than 11 hours per day of sunlight there.

As a strain, Columbian Gold/Santa Marta is an equatorial sativa that takes 18-22 weeks to finish properly. In most of the USA frost comes long before the plants are done, and there is NO part of the USA that has the appropriate 11 hour winter light cycles the plant "needs" to finish up in winter. The same is true of Panama Red/Punto Roja, though I think that one finishes a little faster.

Also consider that in the Columbian highlands, the temp stays typically stays between 62 and 75F 24-7-365. There may be a few parts of the USA where that is true (eg Hawaii, which is known for its own awesome buds), but so far as I know, there is nowhere outdoors in the continental USA where you have those temps and the same light cycle as near the equator.

So with due respect, unless your dad and uncle were growing it in the Columbian highlands or elsewhere in elevated Central/South America, they probably weren't really realizing the full genetic potential of the plants in question, and its more than likely that their results simply didn't stack up to the best native- outdoor-grown stuff.

That aside, I don't mean to quibble here.

My only point is that this idea that today's bud blows away everything before it, is just empirically false. The best of the best from years gone may not be quite as good as the best of the best of today, but I think its nearly there, and if you could do the "time travel Pepsi challenge", I think it would hold up on its own merits. To my view, the biggest difference, is just that really top notch stuff is the NORM today and readily available, where as it was the rare exception in years past.

In central Mexico is where my father had his land. Yes it was still quite abit north of the equator.... My father traveled all over the world, my uncle handled the crops.

Either way, if you guys want to believe 70's weed was better than today's, well more power to ya.
 

bwest

Well-Known Member
In central Mexico is where my father had his land. Yes it was still quite abit north of the equator.... My father traveled all over the world, my uncle handled the crops.

Either way, if you guys want to believe 70's weed was better than today's, well more power to ya.
No one said 70's weed is better today. They said there was some good weed in the 70's also. While the biggest share was shwag, it is absurd to think weed only got good in the last 20 years. People wouldn't have smoked it for centuries if it was no good. Plus, shit genetics + shit genetics won't equal killer strains. So, if there was no strong weed around until the modern strains came out, where did the genetics for them come from? So, if you want to be so ignorant to think there wasnt good weed 30-40 years ago, more power to you.
 

althor

Well-Known Member
No one said 70's weed is better today. They said there was some good weed in the 70's also. While the biggest share was shwag, it is absurd to think weed only got good in the last 20 years. People wouldn't have smoked it for centuries if it was no good. Plus, shit genetics + shit genetics won't equal killer strains. So, if there was no strong weed around until the modern strains came out, where did the genetics for them come from? So, if you want to be so ignorant to think there wasnt good weed 30-40 years ago, more power to you.
Ok, well lets flip this around. In the past 20 or so years there has been more "coming together" of MJ growers than ever before. We have access to genetics from all around the world that we can hybridize and make better. That is why weed is better. We have taken these "good genetics" from around the world, isolated some of the traits, bred for potency, etc... Of course it has improved over the generations.

This is what humans do, we take what nature gives us and adapt it to our uses. Horses are a good example to what man has done to make something better and more usuable for humans through selective breeding.
 

kona gold

Well-Known Member
No one said 70's weed is better today. They said there was some good weed in the 70's also. While the biggest share was shwag, it is absurd to think weed only got good in the last 20 years. People wouldn't have smoked it for centuries if it was no good. Plus, shit genetics + shit genetics won't equal killer strains. So, if there was no strong weed around until the modern strains came out, where did the genetics for them come from? So, if you want to be so ignorant to think there wasnt good weed 30-40 years ago, more power to you.

If the weed from that era was weaker than today's schwag.....then why are breeders and growers constantly looking for these strains.......just like everyone and their mother trying to find the real skunk#1, or northern light.....????? Its cause they were better than whats out there!
Humbolt weed from those eras blows away the stuff grown there now with these newer strains, which were made with the older genetics anyway. Kush has been around forever, just not concidered top top grade weed. Its high just doesnt last that long, or was the most desired high of the times. Potency isnt just a number measured in a lab, just like really nice frosty dense budz grown by someone following a label on a bottle, its just not the same as when someone has years of experience and know how to feel the plants and figure out what they need, instead of juicing them with the latest you learned on the internet.
Thing is now you have all these new wannabe growers that dont know shit except how to follow subcool's recipe for their soil mix, and go throw 10lbs plants in their back yard to try to make as much money as they can.
Shit most of you newer growers dont know what its like to find some remote location......drag out grow bags filled with dirt, or heavy bags of soil n fert through nasty terrain, putting literally your bllood sweat into your grow! Worried about animals, rippers and dea all the time.
That also why it was better.....cause its about your spirit(mana/energy), that makes all the difference. Just look at mex for instance......you had bricked schwag from comercial cartel crops trying to make as much money as they can, or you had some family strains like columbian gold, the reds......and they werent grown for quantity so the quality was great!
Afghani the same thing....most are average.....but the ones that were special were always held tightly and worked by a certain family or clan, that s where the best stuff is!
I cant even beging to describe the wealth of flavors and highs that used to exist.....especially in Hawai'i!
Now so much has similar flavors and kinda watered down, and similar highs. Very little diversity! Reason is everything has to look like bc bud to sell now!
And all you older smokers and growers tell me if you get high for 3-5 hours on todays weed, or if it makes you feel that super special happy positive social high that top weed used to possess???

I sorry.....i might be rambling!!!
 

lilroach

Well-Known Member
The question was what strains did we have back in the 1960's and 70's. Through all the posts on this thread the same names came up over and over again. This is because there wasn't that many high-end strains back then and it is easy to remember the dozen or so that were available.

Growing weed has come along way since the 1970's for most of us. My grow in 1975 yielded a 13' plant that we harvested too early and smoked the leaves....somehow we got high on it. I'm guessing that the AVERAGE THC for what we call swag now isn't all that much different than in the 1970's, and the good weed back then isn't much different than the good weed today....we just have many more choices.

Unless I missed something, I don't recall massive grow rooms, LST, Fimming, Feminizing, 1000w grow lights, DWC, ebb and flow, and the many other growing techniques that have been mastered in the past 20+ years. I was a regular subscriber to High Times and all the bud-porn back then were outdoor grows. Now we can grow weed with 20+% THC in our closets, we toss the leaves, and the wonderful invention of vaporizing, all are things that have improved over time.

Also gone are the $120 kilos, and $10 ounces.....but I can live with that as I grow weed that goes for $400 a zip on the street.
 

bwest

Well-Known Member
Ok, well lets flip this around. In the past 20 or so years there has been more "coming together" of MJ growers than ever before. We have access to genetics from all around the world that we can hybridize and make better. That is why weed is better. We have taken these "good genetics" from around the world, isolated some of the traits, bred for potency, etc... Of course it has improved over the generations.

This is what humans do, we take what nature gives us and adapt it to our uses. Horses are a good example to what man has done to make something better and more usuable for humans through selective breeding.
Not arguing that overall the weed is better today. I was responding to the people that said there was no good weed back then.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Regarding viability, I found a plastic container full of seeds I bred around 1993 that had been under a chair cushion for 12-13 years. I gave them to a grower friend, since I wasn't growing at the time, and he got around 50% success with them (mostly Skunk #1 x Big Bud, and pure Big Bud).
I recently grew out 14+ year old ceeds from Mexican bricked schwagg, and got decent results. You can see the grow report in my signature below.

Red from Sickmeds managed to germinate ceeds from late 1980s or early 1990s original packs of SSSC Williams Wonder. So that's nearly 25 years. If I remember right he said he only got 2 or 3 seeds to germinate out of several packs.

But again, ceeds are a LOT more viable at 10-15 years then they are at 25 years, let alone 35-40 years (ie going back to the late 1970s).

I remember seeing on a different board Sam the Skunkman saying that he's personally tried to germinate literally thousands of 30+ year old ceeds, and never had any success. Which isn't to say its impossible to do it, but the odds are heavily stacked against you.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Either way, if you guys want to believe 70's weed was better than today's, well more power to ya.
Not what I, or anyone else here said.

Just that the BEST of the stuff from the 1970s is comparable in quality to the high end "medical" strains from today, that's all.

In other words, really good weed isn't a new creation, and it wasn't all "schwagg" until just a few years ago.

Ok, well lets flip this around. In the past 20 or so years there has been more "coming together" of MJ growers than ever before. We have access to genetics from all around the world that we can hybridize and make better. That is why weed is better. We have taken these "good genetics" from around the world, isolated some of the traits, bred for potency, etc... Of course it has improved over the generations.
All hybridization does is isolate already existing traits from different plants and combine them. New combinations aren't necessarily "better"; some of this is just situation dependent or subjective.

Does 20-30 years of recent indoor hybridization compare with say, 150 years of selective breeding to create Jamaican "Lamb's Breath", 400 years of selective breeding to create Santa Marta/Columbian Gold or Highland Thai, or 1000 years of selective breeding to create Mazari Shariff? With these classic landraces, people were doing selections from outdoor fields involving literally thousands of plants, not creating unstable F2s from two disparate lines picking say, the best out of 20 or 30 then calling the resultant mutt a "strain".

IMO, most of the improvements of the last 40 years were in the following things:

-Creating hybridized drug strains optimized for growing INDOORS under short-cycle artificial lighting.
-Creating hybridized drug strains optimized for growing at higher latitudes (eg North America).
-Creating plants with novel cannabinoid profiles.
-Creating plants with novel flavor/scent profiles.

The novel cannabinoid profile strains are IMO the most significant recent development, and this one wasn't really possible until recent science identified the different cannabinoids, and is able to quantify them.

Also, relevant to this, there was no indoor growing more than 40 years ago, because doing so makes little to no sense except in a prohibitionary environment. Prior to the so-called "war on drugs" weed was grown as a weed! All these indoor techniques like SCROG, and FIM, and hydroponics, are all responses to prohibition. Almost all of the modern "name" strains that people talk about today, are also indoor-bred strains responding to the same thing.

In terms of sheer potency, there is only so much THC you can pack into a trichrome head, and only so many trichromes you can pack into a square mm of bud. In other words, there is a maximum theoretical genetic potential potency you can get from any strain. If you look at the numbers above, with lines like Panama Red, Acapulco Gold, and Durban Poison all yielding individual samples of 22-25% THC, you can see that the genetics were mostly there even 40 years ago.
 

yesum

Well-Known Member
Althor you lost the argument to Jogro. He is right and you are wrong, period.

I almost lost an argument to him so do not feel bad.

You said you would take Skunk over quality South American sativas anyday. Skunk is pretty old now for one and the sativas are... sativas. Maybe what you mean is you like some indica in your weed. I bet that is it.

I have no nostalgia for the old days. I enjoy growing my own in the closet and picking out of hundreds of strains for the perfect ones. I also like knowing there is no crap in it and harvesting and curing it to my exact preferences.

I also like indica dominates over pure sativas which was all but unavailable to me back then. Nothing about the old stuff being better than today, although that was true of the pure sativas.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
The question was what strains did we have back in the 1960's and 70's. Through all the posts on this thread the same names came up over and over again. This is because there wasn't that many high-end strains back then and it is easy to remember the dozen or so that were available.
This is true, but again, consider that large scale indoor cultivation was effectively unheard of back then.

Everything was grown outdoors, and smuggled into the USA, and with a few exceptions, most of it was local landrace type stuff. Only stuff grown commercially outdoors would get smuggled in in quantity, and all by itself that limited variety. IE, there just weren't that many places on the globe growing weed in quantity for smuggling into the USA.

EG Durban Poison was certainly around in the 1970s, but nobody was smuggling African herb into the USA then. . .that just didn't make sense.

Also, even if there was a difference, that wouldn't necessarily be reflected in the naming: IE Michoacan, Oaxacan, Guerrero, Zactecas, are all different Mexican lines. . .not sure most smokers would know the difference or could identify these.

Along the same lines, just because there are 200 different "name" strains today, doesn't really mean much. Lots of these so-called "strains" are just unstable hybrids, many aren't high quality enough to be worth talking about, and lots of them are more similar than different.

Growing weed has come along way since the 1970's for most of us. My grow in 1975 yielded a 13' plant that we harvested too early and smoked the leaves....somehow we got high on it. I'm guessing that the AVERAGE THC for what we call swag now isn't all that much different than in the 1970's, and the good weed back then isn't much different than the good weed today....we just have many more choices.
I agree, but I think the spectrum has shifted dramatically today. Schwagg is schwagg, but the "curves" are different to the point where the average weed from today is just MUCH better than the average stuff from the 1970s.

While the best stuff from today probably isn't all that much better than the best stuff from yesteryear, today its readily available and relatively cheap. In 1976 if you wanted something like Acapulco Gold, you'd have to have a fat wallet and a good connection. Today you can literally walk into one of a dozen dispensaries in your town in CA and walk out with any one of a half a dozen strains comparable in quality to high end 1970s era AG. Its to the point where you might even have an easier time scoring genetically legitimate Panama Red *TODAY* than you would in 1981!

This dynamic has also shifted the entire market. Schwagg from the 1960s was leafy, stemmy, and seedy. Today, even the cheap bricked Mexican is going to have relatively few ceeds, stems and leaves. Its certainly not going to be "great", but better overall than "grass" from the hippie era.

Unless I missed something, I don't recall massive grow rooms, LST, Fimming, Feminizing, 1000w grow lights, DWC, ebb and flow, and the many other growing techniques that have been mastered in the past 20+ years.
Those are all indoor based techniques. Again, nobody was really growing indoors on a commercial scale until the 1980s. I do remember hearing about the technique of feminization in the late 1980s, though I don't think it was called that. The concept was that pollen from rare male flowers found on female plants would create all female offspring.

These techniques were "mastered" because Reagans war on drugs effectively ended large scale 1970s style cannabis smuggling, and because cocaine cultivation displaced cannabis as the cartel profit center of choice. As smuggled outdoor grown weed gave way to domestically indoor grown weed, the indoor growing techniques and equipment became refined over time.

Outdoor growing techniques (topping, pruning, training, girdling) are as old as time.

I was a regular subscriber to High Times and all the bud-porn back then were outdoor grows. Now we can grow weed with 20+% THC in our closets, we toss the leaves, and the wonderful invention of vaporizing, all are things that have improved over time.
You don't toss the leaves, you save them to make water hash, another invention in part a byproduct of indoor growing and modern technology!

FWIW, vaporizers have been around for at least 20 years too since the early 1990s, though the early commercial ones were crappy soldering iron type ones.

Also, conceptually, heating (rather than burning) cannabis to create inhalable vapors isn't really a new idea. The middle eastern hookah is at least 400 years old, and uses lit charcoals to heat the bowl contents as a sort of "analog" vaporizer. Historically, use of these water pipes for hashish goes back centuries.

Also gone are the $120 kilos, and $10 ounces.....but I can live with that as I grow weed that goes for $400 a zip on the street.
Well, there has been at least some inflation since the 1960s! You can't buy 12 ounce cokes for 35 cents anymore, or a gallon of gas for $0.60 either! A $10 1960s ounce of low grade Mexican "should" cost about $30-40 today.

Interestingly, Mexico has actually de-criminalized cannabis now, and tons of it is still grown outdoors. Depending on where you are, its still possible to find $30 (or less) ounces of low grade stuff there. What's changed isn't the cost of producing the stuff, its the increased costs of smuggling in the post War on Drugs, post 9-11 era.
 

Jogro

Well-Known Member
Althor you lost the argument to Jogro. He is right and you are wrong, period.
Oh stop it. . .
Nobody has "lost" here. . .this is a friendly discussion, and I think Althor has good points.
So far as I can tell, he and I aren't disagreeing, so much as saying different things.

You said you would take Skunk over quality South American sativas anyday. Skunk is pretty old now for one and the sativas are... sativas. Maybe what you mean is you like some indica in your weed. I bet that is it.
Althor made that comment, but if you're asking me, for GROWING (indoors or especially outdoors), I'd definitely take the skunk. Skunk #1 goes back to the early 1970s, and was purpose-bred to grow well and finish in North America; the equatorial landraces were not and do not.

Note that the original Skunk #1 was bred directly from Columbian Gold for potency, Acapulco Gold for potency and toughness, and Afghani to increase bud density and reduce flowering times. ..this one comes directly from the best of the landraces available at that time, again a testament to how good they were. If it were possible to finish the first two outdoors in the USA, there probably would have been no point to breeding Skunk#1.

For smoking, I'd much rather have some old school landrace sativa grown right. Nowadays, something like that is basically unheard of and would be a nice treat for effect and flavor, regardless of how it compared in potency to "OG Kush". Really, does it matter if its "only" 12% THC? IE. . I'd have to smoke a whole joint of it rather than 1/2 a joint? In general, I also prefer indicas for medical effect, but I'd make an "exception" in this case!



I have no nostalgia for the old days. I enjoy growing my own in the closet and picking out of hundreds of strains for the perfect ones. I also like knowing there is no crap in it and harvesting and curing it to my exact preferences. I also like indica dominates over pure sativas which was all but unavailable to me back then. Nothing about the old stuff being better than today, although that was true of the pure sativas.
I certainly have no nostalgia for smoking schwagg or having to interact with sketchy individuals to get it. (Incidentally, see my grow report on "Mexican schwagg" below. . . its a LOT better if you grow it yourself).

Ultimately, all these things may come full circle. With ever-increasing decriminalization and even overt legalization, it may one day be possible for you to grow your own outdoor landrace sativa buds in an artificial light-supplemented greenhouse in your backyard!
 

IndicaKin

New Member
I'm 50..have loved cannabis since I was 15....lol
Back in 78-81, living in Chattanooga,TN, my friend brought back 2 joints from humboldt..he was in Fairfield, Ca
I have NEVER been so stoned, that I can remember..I was driving, and I had to pull over..total head trip, it seemed, just all around, overpowering..WOW..it tasted skunky..
Used to get Columbian Gold for $35/oz..yep, $17.50 a 1/2..seedy, paranoia would come on..but it was ok..lol
 

GilaRiverSun

New Member
I am pushing up all over 50 now..... In Dallas and the lower midwest, pretty much all you had was highly compressed mexican brick weed, or home grown ditch weed, either having been grown outside in the leave-it-and-forget-it method, and invariably chocked all FULL of seeds. As far as that goes seeds ran rampant in that area in weed of all forms until the late 90's (when I moved to the west coast) - so much so that it was nearly impossible to buy sinsamilla anywhere. The only named strains I can recall was "Columbian Gold", Skunk, Panama Red, Thai/Vietnamese and Kentucky Bluegrass. You were never sure about the Columbian or Panama - every brick weed slinger cried out that his was the best Columbian / Panamanian on the planet. They never were. Skunk was more in demand - it smelled like skunk - a big dead one - left to rot beside the road for 4 days in the hot texas sun. First time I smelled it - it was so strong I had to toss the bag down to keep from unloading my stomach in it. Not good for vendor relations....... That crap was 10 kinds of rank - more rank than any Skunk I have seen in a long time. Not even Sensi Skunk or Mr Nice Shit or AK-47 has a smell even close to that nasty stuff. It was skoooooooooooonk! Thai/Vietnam was pretty good - brought back by Nam vets. If you could get past their peculiar variation of crazy - it was good smoke. Kentucky Blue Grass was the shit. Hard core indica. Leaves so dark (probably excessive nitrogen) that they were dark green to almost black. Wide leaves. Heavy yield. Potent all all get out - indica couch lock to the max. The rumor was that it was based on G13.... Not sure if it was or not - just the rumor. 3 hits would perma glue you to the sofa for 3 hours or more. Can find decendents of this today in strains such as Spinal Tap, Hogg, Herijuana, and the like for sure, and based on what I have seen of "The White" or "Triangle" from Florida - I am pretty sure that is just a different name for the same strain. Smell of skunk, festering piss, lemon, and kerosine - I probably liked it and Skoooooonk the best.
 

Uncle Pirate

Active Member
Not what I, or anyone else here said.

Just that the BEST of the stuff from the 1970s is comparable in quality to the high end "medical" strains from today, that's all.

In other words, really good weed isn't a new creation, and it wasn't all "schwagg" until just a few years ago.


All hybridization does is isolate already existing traits from different plants and combine them. New combinations aren't necessarily "better"; some of this is just situation dependent or subjective.

Does 20-30 years of recent indoor hybridization compare with say, 150 years of selective breeding to create Jamaican "Lamb's Breath", 400 years of selective breeding to create Santa Marta/Columbian Gold or Highland Thai, or 1000 years of selective breeding to create Mazari Shariff? With these classic landraces, people were doing selections from outdoor fields involving literally thousands of plants, not creating unstable F2s from two disparate lines picking say, the best out of 20 or 30 then calling the resultant mutt a "strain".

IMO, most of the improvements of the last 40 years were in the following things:

-Creating hybridized drug strains optimized for growing INDOORS under short-cycle artificial lighting.
-Creating hybridized drug strains optimized for growing at higher latitudes (eg North America).
-Creating plants with novel cannabinoid profiles.
-Creating plants with novel flavor/scent profiles.

The novel cannabinoid profile strains are IMO the most significant recent development, and this one wasn't really possible until recent science identified the different cannabinoids, and is able to quantify them.

Also, relevant to this, there was no indoor growing more than 40 years ago, because doing so makes little to no sense except in a prohibitionary environment. Prior to the so-called "war on drugs" weed was grown as a weed! All these indoor techniques like SCROG, and FIM, and hydroponics, are all responses to prohibition. Almost all of the modern "name" strains that people talk about today, are also indoor-bred strains responding to the same thing.

In terms of sheer potency, there is only so much THC you can pack into a trichrome head, and only so many trichromes you can pack into a square mm of bud. In other words, there is a maximum theoretical genetic potential potency you can get from any strain. If you look at the numbers above, with lines like Panama Red, Acapulco Gold, and Durban Poison all yielding individual samples of 22-25% THC, you can see that the genetics were mostly there even 40 years ago.
This last paragraph here is completely inaccurate. Going by your theory, the frostiest bud is the most potent. That is false. There is way more thc in the plant matter itself than you're giving credit for. You don't just get high on trichomes, genius. And where are you getting 22-25% thc on those strains? You grew them and had them tested? Or are you going by the dutch seedbank's description?
 
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