what's this

G

groweraua

Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
First thing you need to do is get a good meter. If you dont have one, it's flying blind. Even if you go DWC, you still need to know what your PH is. I wouldn't even invest in a DWC system till you have a good meter. The one you have there is still not accurate. I've gone through 10 of those things... they are always off compared to a good pen/meter... like the old saying "You get what you pay for" It's like doing heart surgery with a Cresent wrench.
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Amazon.com: Oakton OK35423-00 Waterproof pH1 EcoTster Solution Meters & Solutions, White: Industrial & Scientific

Amazon.com: Oakton OK35423-00 Waterproof pH1 EcoTster Solution Meters & Solutions, White: Industrial & Scientific
www.amazon.com

or which do you reocmmend?
 
G

groweraua

Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
Best money you will ever spend when growing.. I use mine many times a day. And be prepared to replace the Swiss probe once a year at $127.
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would this work?

Apera Instruments AI311 Premium Series PH60 Waterproof pH Pocket Tester Kit, Replaceable Probe, ±0.01 pH Accuracy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Apera Instruments AI311 Premium Series PH60 Waterproof pH Pocket Tester Kit, Replaceable Probe, ±0.01 pH Accuracy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
www.amazon.com
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
groweraua said:
would this work?

Apera Instruments AI311 Premium Series PH60 Waterproof pH Pocket Tester Kit, Replaceable Probe, ±0.01 pH Accuracy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific

Apera Instruments AI311 Premium Series PH60 Waterproof pH Pocket Tester Kit, Replaceable Probe, ±0.01 pH Accuracy: Amazon.com: Industrial & Scientific
www.amazon.com
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Apera PH60S (S = Spear probe) works but the probe is shorter than the bluelab and very fragile. I have the Apera and Bluelab. They are both great tools is you use them correctly. The setup Aaron has is even better than either of the ones I have.
 
Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
DoubleAtotheRON said:
If your PH is already at 4.7ish (guessing) 6 ph is going to be like throwing a lounge chair off the Titanic, it won't matter. You need extreme PH changes to fix this. Read what I said earlier, and feed in at 12ish PH. But, you're not going to know how to counter act your feed in if you don't have a good meter/pen. You could guess at it, but I wouldn't recommend that. To fix 4.7PH, you need to feed in at 12ish ph. I have found that if you want to move the PH in soil, you have to more than double your PH feed in for a couple of feedings with a good flush, and then monitor it. Start dropping at feeding 3 to 9ish, then keep feeding in at 7.3-7.5 to maintain your desired 6.5-6.8 PH... assuming you are in a peat/mulch based soil.
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Listen to this man, do what he is telling you to do, it will work.
 
G

groweraua

Member
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
Apera PH60S (S = Spear probe) works but the probe is shorter than the bluelab and very fragile. I have the Apera and Bluelab. They are both great tools is you use them correctly. The setup Aaron has is even better than either of the ones I have.
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Hey Ren, I haven't gotten my BlueLab yet, so all I've been able to test so far is the runoff which I feel gives me kind of an idea of how my soil is buffering and the overall pH, but know that can't be trusted. I tried to order one direct from BlueLab but they are out now waiting for parts they said. I just don't fully trust Amazon, but I might have to take my chances, lol.

Anyways I have a high suspicion my pH is a little high, since I've added a bunch of Ca amendments and already have Ca in my water. I've been working on lowering it slowly by adding organic nutes or citric acid to the water. I know I need that pen, and it's my next purchase for sure.

So I was hoping you would take a look at one of my Chem 91 clones, and tell me what you think. My guess is too high pH locking out some nutes, but I want to hear from the expert, lol. Thanks man.
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Renfro

Renfro

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
Anyways I have a high suspicion my pH is a little high, since I've added a bunch of Ca amendments and already have Ca in my water. I've been working on lowering it slowly by adding organic nutes or citric acid to the water. I know I need that pen, and it's my next purchase for sure.

So I was hoping you would take a look at one of my Chem 91 clones, and tell me what you think. My guess is too high pH locking out some nutes, but I want to hear from the expert, lol. Thanks man.
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I would guess low pH from the symptoms. Does the run off test lower than what goes in? Won't know exactly until we get the meter but I would wager you are down in the very low 5's or 4's.
 
DoubleAtotheRON

DoubleAtotheRON

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
Hey Ren, I haven't gotten my BlueLab yet, so all I've been able to test so far is the runoff which I feel gives me kind of an idea of how my soil is buffering and the overall pH, but know that can't be trusted. I tried to order one direct from BlueLab but they are out now waiting for parts they said. I just don't fully trust Amazon, but I might have to take my chances, lol.

Anyways I have a high suspicion my pH is a little high, since I've added a bunch of Ca amendments and already have Ca in my water. I've been working on lowering it slowly by adding organic nutes or citric acid to the water. I know I need that pen, and it's my next purchase for sure.

So I was hoping you would take a look at one of my Chem 91 clones, and tell me what you think. My guess is too high pH locking out some nutes, but I want to hear from the expert, lol. Thanks man.
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Just a heads up. Amazon is selling the old models.... I had to return 2 of them from Amazon. Buy direct from Apera.
 
Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
To get by with a cheap pen for now you can employ some standardization to your ph procedures.

Use distilled water, make sure the ph of this is 7.0, it's not always 7 as can be claimed, use either baking soda or lemon juice to nail 7 - this is important because 7 is neutral and its doesnt have the capacity to resist a change in its ph (not buffered) so it will swing to the ph of the medium easily. Never use tap water it's too hard and won't reliably tell you and it's heavily buffered. A little ingenuity and standardizing your method can save you some big dollars. If your a hardcore like Refro or DoubleA by all means splurge but you can get decent quality results with some basic chemistry principals and a cheap pen. Sorry guys not trying to debunk your advice, that's a lot for an everyday grower to purchase.
 
G

groweraua

Member
Bignutes said:
To get by with a cheap pen for now you can employ some standardization to your ph procedures.

Use distilled water, make sure the ph of this is 7.0, it's not always 7 as can be claimed, use either baking soda or lemon juice to nail 7 - this is important because 7 is neutral and its doesnt have the capacity to resist a change in its ph (not buffered) so it will swing to the ph of the medium easily. Never use tap water it's too hard and won't reliably tell you and it's heavily buffered. A little ingenuity and standardizing your method can save you some big dollars. If your a hardcore like Refro or DoubleA by all means splurge but you can get decent quality results with some basic chemistry principals and a cheap pen. Sorry guys not trying to debunk your advice, that's a lot for an everyday grower to purchase.
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just bought this but need to find a temporary solution this would take atleast 3 weeks before i get it maybe more

 
PadawanWarrior

PadawanWarrior

Well-Known Member
Renfro said:
I would guess low pH from the symptoms. Does the run off test lower than what goes in? Won't know exactly until we get the meter but I would wager you are down in the very low 5's or 4's.
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No, my runoff comes out higher usually, unless I'm using straight 7.5 pH well water, than it drops a bit. So even when I feed at 6.0, the runoff was coming out higher, say 6.8 or so. The first time I used plain water with just citric acid, the runoff was crazy high, like 7.8. I'm guessing that the citric acid was unbinding the Ca in the soil and helping to flush flush out. The runoff got lower and lower the more I used it.

I've only done this with my flowering plants though, and not to the one I showed you. That one I would expect to have a higher pH since my starting mixture tested about 6.8 when I did an initial slurry test. I know I'm about to order the pen, lol.

Anyways, I am using a freshly mixed no-till soil and I think I added too many Ca based amendments. I've cut most of them out now and things have been getting better in my flower closet.

This little girl hasn't gotten the citric acid, nothing but plain water, so I would imagine the pH is around 7.0 now, but I need a freaking pen, hahaha.

And when I order the pen off Amazon, do I need to order the pH calibration solutions? Sorry for asking you so many questions man, but I value your opinion. Thanks.
 
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Bignutes

Bignutes

Well-Known Member
PadawanWarrior said:
No, my runoff comes out higher usually, unless I'm using straight 7.5 pH well water, than it drops a bit. So even when I feed at 6.0, the runoff was coming out higher, say 6.8 or so. The first time I used plain water with just citric acid, the runoff was crazy high, like 7.8. I'm guessing that the citric acid was unbinding the Ca in the soil and helping to flush flush out. The runoff got lower and lower the more I used it.

I've only done this with my flowering plants though, and not to the one I showed you. That one I would expect to have a higher pH since my starting mixture tested about 6.8 when I did an initial slurry test. I know I'm about to order the pen, lol.

Anyways, I am using a freshly mixed no-till soil and I think I added too many Ca based amendments. I've cut most of them out now and things have been getting better in my flower closet.

This little girl hasn't gotten the citric acid of anything but plain water so I would imagine the pH is around 7.0 now, but I need a freaking pen, hahaha.
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When you use citric acid if you use just enough to get your water to get to a desired lower ph you'll notice a large ph drift over a day or two especially the harder the water is. The trick to using citric acid is using more of it to undershoot your desired ph, it buffers it and over the couse of a few days if you want to test this concept you'll notice ph drift is minimal. At this point cut the citric water with small amounts of tap water to get your desired ph. This way the water is buffered to the citric acid side instead of the calcium carbonate side and it will serve your purposes and hold ph much better.
 
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