What's wrong with these leaves?

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Well put GK1 I like the explanation from the scientific point of view. I've been trying to find a way to get into some botany classes at the local college here. I'd love to learn all the details on exactly why some things work and some don't.
 

GK1

Active Member
Well put GK1 I like the explanation from the scientific point of view. I've been trying to find a way to get into some botany classes at the local college here. I'd love to learn all the details on exactly why some things work and some don't.

Get a book called "The secrets to high yield gardening". It'll be more than enough...... :sleep: ;-)
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
hehe, not many people notice those any more. They are actually my pride and joy, a strain called Koi samoi. They are from thailand, and they were all around amazing. I grew 4 differant strains back in 08-09. Its all in my journal I wanna say the pictures of the fruiting started around page 15, the pics of that harvest are some where around 25-30.

Of the 4 straiins these out yield all the others, and the trips were crazy to say the least. I also had burmas, south americans, and a russian strain called Ereal. The ereals were my second favorite for sure. Though I will say the south americans only grew a few mushies, but they had killer visuals!

I will check that book out for sure. You think a borders type of place would have it?
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Is that a MJ oriented book, or just high yeild growing in general. I couldnt quite tell from the picture.
 

GK1

Active Member
high yield growing with all sorts of theory you wont find anywhere else. Hydro,aero specific chapters as well. It will increase your skill which equals larger yields and more fun.
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
Sounds like a good read. Bigger yields are always a good thing. I've often wondered how much of the potential I'm getting out of my genetics. I've made some nute changes over the years, and never really noticed a big differance. Just makes ya wonder how much better can I actually make it..
 

jayaterma

Member
there is nothing wrong with the leaves. you created a micro deficiency or worse lockout. doesnt matter what kind of food you are using if you use them incorrectly. There are many reasons why this happens. Dont blame the plant for your incompetence. If you want to correct the situation and judging by where the plant may be in its life cycle run a low ppm lucas formula around 300 600 ppm and mix it properly cal mg stir and leave it alone for a minute at least before you add the next then add your micro and at this stage more A than B.
 
Getting better. Your suggestion seems to be making a big difference...KUDOS! They're more vibrant and clearly happier. I can't believe I've even had success in the past while not doing this. Shows how adaptive plants are.
 

GK1

Active Member
success has yet to be defined for you my friend. I'm glad things are turning around....and it was so simple in the end. Love it. :hump:
 

thoumayest

Well-Known Member
success has yet to be defined for you my friend. I'm glad things are turning around....and it was so simple in the end. Love it. :hump:

Your little "tip" added much to this community and helped alot of us as I know most of us were adding straight acid out of the GH bottle right into the nute solution.

You should create a guide or start a thread...that I"m sure will be Sticky.

+rep
 

GK1

Active Member
Your little "tip" added much to this community and helped alot of us as I know most of us were adding straight acid out of the GH bottle right into the nute solution.

You should create a guide or start a thread...that I"m sure will be Sticky.

+rep


Thanks brother. I'm glad to help. Its an even bigger issue with alkaline reagents than acidic. Using silica? Better be adding that shit first! I'm always around to help.....if enough people start following where I add to others thread maybe a "Ask GK" thread? LMAO Thats good shit! Peace.


I cant wait to see fract's next run pics........:hump:
 
I'm glad you brought that up about adding silica. I'm adding ProTekt (which raises PH) after I ph down straight water to about 6.2 or so. I know it says to add this before any other nutes, but I'm wondering why this needs to be first? In the past I've forgotten to add it first and added it later. Didn't notice any problems, but that was in a straight hydro, and not in my current rdwc.

I'm wondering if a standard res tank (say 30 gallons or so) behaves differently than my 24 13-gallon tubs (that are connected via 3" pvc) when it comes to adding silica. Is that one "large" tub more forgiving for adding nutes than my many smaller (but connected) buckets?

It just seems I've been having one setback after with this new rdwc system, when in the past I've done very well with standard hydro. For instance: doing a nute change is much more of a pain in the ass with the new rdwc because it takes so long to adjust ph/nute levels because it takes at least a half hour for everything to circulate. Add one thing, wait to circulate, add another, wait... It takes several hours to do a nute change with this new system, and I'm concerned about the levels being way off in those few hours. Am I shocking the plants just from doing a nute change?

Also, plants seem to have slowed way down on growing in veg. Looking at the roots, there is very light brown coloring on them. I don't yet use hydrogen peroxide, but I think I may need to start. I would prefer to use compost tea, but I've heard many times that when using teas if things go wrong, they go terribly wrong very quickly. Any thoughts?
 

Shivaskunk

Well-Known Member
When you say never add nutes to water above 7.0ph can you explain why? Also if i adjusted my water to7 before nutes it would drop below 5 with my nutes. Do you advise to do that and then adjust ph up with a diluted ph up or silica? If so how does that go along with your advise to never add ph up or silica to nutes? Thanks dude.

It is happening at mixing friend.....it doesn't matter how many times you check throughout day. Your prob is at mixing and nothing else.

Listen to me bro, THATS your problem. PERIOD. DO NOT add ph up to nutes. If you are seeing the cloud when you pour it in your FUCKING UP. I dont want to big league you but I have a degree in ag science and I've grown indoors for over 20 years. PLEASE PLEASE listen....if you do, no more problem. Ive explained the science....cal precipitating out of soln in the form of cal phophate. My dad had a saying....."you can lead a horse to water and.....sometimes ya gotta shoot em in the head anyway cuz theyre just too dumb to drink!" ;) just playing, but if ya listen you'll be very happy in a week.

Why are you using RO? Unless your water has something in it that shouldnt be RO can be huge headaches. My tap is 7.9 and 240 ppm and I'd rather use it then RO.

For tap water......adjust ph down to 7.0 or less. Make nute addition and check numbers. I dilute my acid down about 100/1 in gallon jug and then I use large graduated syringe form the grow store and measure my acid as if nutes. I know what it takes to hit my final desired ph and add it before nutes. Acid can be added after nutes if its diluted 100/1 however. Feel free to tinker.

For RO water.......its mostly ionically void by nature so its tough to pH RO water without nutes in it first. Never add nutes to water above 7.0. typically, nutes will really slam RO water to a low pH. NEVER add pH up straight to res.....always add the desired amount of pH up to a side container and dilute it before adding to res. How much? The key is to dilute enough so that the "cloud" that you are seeing is non existent. IF YOU SEE A CLOUD when you add, DUMP AND START OVER.

OR

Use your high pH tap water to raise your final pH to desired. No more buying pH up. How sweet does that sound? ;) DOH! In a 5 gal bucket, it took 1000 mls tap water to raise nute soln from 4.9 to 5.5! Easy Peasy.......

Now go fix your problem young Padowan!
 

GK1

Active Member
When you say never add nutes to water above 7.0ph can you explain why? Also if i adjusted my water to7 before nutes it would drop below 5 with my nutes. Do you advise to do that and then adjust ph up with a diluted ph up or silica? If so how does that go along with your advise to never add ph up or silica to nutes? Thanks dude.

Ok, above 7 adn macros can begin to lockout just as cal does with alkaline adds. Nitrogen is the first to go as it has been explained to me. Some precipitants are so small that even tho they are no longer "in solution" they remain suspended and cannot be seen be the naked eye. I NEVER want you to add ph up and down to the same res. Before I suggest a protocol I need a little info.... Tap pH and EC and how you measure it. What brand of nutes are you using? Hmmmm, just occurred to me that RO water could present such a situation. Using RO? Peace.
 

Thundercat

Well-Known Member
I can say I never have to use PH up. My water is well above 7 to start, and after I add nutes, I always have to add a few tsp of ph down. I add this to a fresh gallon of water and then to the rez. I don't think I've been having any issues. Then I top off daily with 2-3 gallons of fresh water, and usually another 3-5 tsp of ph down again. If I happen to get to low, I can just add another gallon of non-ph'd water and that raises it up. The res fluctuates between about 5.6 and 6.0 over 24hrs, but I feel like that makes sure the plants get the nutes that are absorbed below 5.8 and above. The nutes typically stay nice and stable or slowly get lower over the week, which makes me believe they are drinking properly.
 

GK1

Active Member
I'm glad you brought that up about adding silica. I'm adding ProTekt (which raises PH) after I ph down straight water to about 6.2 or so. I know it says to add this before any other nutes, but I'm wondering why this needs to be first? In the past I've forgotten to add it first and added it later. Didn't notice any problems, but that was in a straight hydro, and not in my current rdwc.

I'm wondering if a standard res tank (say 30 gallons or so) behaves differently than my 24 13-gallon tubs (that are connected via 3" pvc) when it comes to adding silica. Is that one "large" tub more forgiving for adding nutes than my many smaller (but connected) buckets?

It just seems I've been having one setback after with this new rdwc system, when in the past I've done very well with standard hydro. For instance: doing a nute change is much more of a pain in the ass with the new rdwc because it takes so long to adjust ph/nute levels because it takes at least a half hour for everything to circulate. Add one thing, wait to circulate, add another, wait... It takes several hours to do a nute change with this new system, and I'm concerned about the levels being way off in those few hours. Am I shocking the plants just from doing a nute change?

Also, plants seem to have slowed way down on growing in veg. Looking at the roots, there is very light brown coloring on them. I don't yet use hydrogen peroxide, but I think I may need to start. I would prefer to use compost tea, but I've heard many times that when using teas if things go wrong, they go terribly wrong very quickly. Any thoughts?
Silica.....it is VERY alkaline and needs to be added first for the same reasons pH up is added first. The best way to add silica is the night before. Plants can only take up silicon in the form of monosalicic acid....potassium silicate is broken down in the rizosphere and takes time to become available to the plant.

I would have zero confidence in my nutrient soln being mixed properly given the method you are using. That doesn't mean that what you are doing is wrong just that its the first place to look since you are having probs. Make sense? I would strive to mix my entire gallonage for RDWC system in one tank. I would take the time to completely drain(as much as possible) the system and then refill with the new soln. This is more work but insures no errors.

Tea's can turn roots brown. Remember you had things locked up....I cant explain it but it always takes longer to regain momentum than it should. RDWC should speed the recovery tho. There is nothing wrong with using H202 to sanitize and then following with tea to re introduce beneficials. Google fusarium and pythium.....those are the 2 killers you MUST avoid. Temp of res is big.

Did I miss anything? Peace.
 
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