SPLFreak808
Well-Known Member
Doesn't matter if it's organic derrived or synthetic. the problem is the bottled preservatives & hormone inhibitors.
Who regulates cannabis nutrients, are they really safe !
- Thread starter Hi crazii
- Start date
Jaybodankly
Well-Known Member
If you are going organic look for the stamp on the bottle says ORMI. It has been tested and regulated. Anything else you are leaving it up to the FDA or less to do your research.
From their page: OMRI supports organic integrity by developing clear information and guidance about materials, so that producers know which products are appropriate for organic operations. OMRI is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that provides an independent review of products, such as fertilizers, pest controls, livestock health care products, and numerous other inputs that are intended for use in certified organic production and processing.
From their page: OMRI supports organic integrity by developing clear information and guidance about materials, so that producers know which products are appropriate for organic operations. OMRI is a 501(c)(3) nonprofit organization that provides an independent review of products, such as fertilizers, pest controls, livestock health care products, and numerous other inputs that are intended for use in certified organic production and processing.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
You are totally right Richard. The hazard warnings give it away. I agree with you, 100 percent organic is the best way possible. To think somebody that might be severely ill and smoking chemicals to cure themselves is totally ridiculous. It actually makes me really angry. They wouldn't think for a second there weed might cause them damage. At the end of the day the patients just see it as a natural herb, plant. I've seen people qualified as high as having a PhD in medicine chemistry not questioning what's in there cannabis.
The industry has manipulated most of us, or even all to believe we need numerous bottles to grow the top shelf weed. They even stuffed the bottles with god knows how many chemicals and they given you warnings on the bottles ! And guess what they get away with it. As it wasn't meant to be used to grow cannabis with it.
Richard what you reckon, I know there will be more creepy crawlys, but I want to use soil from my back yard. I already have all sorts pests troubling me like gnat and spider mites, my lady bugs are munching them all away lol.
I have actually used from my back yard once, small pots for seedlings and had no problems with pests.
My soil has been around 4.543 billion years and packs a proper punch. It has all the nutrients it needs lol. Probably even a dinosaur or alien in it lol. Money can't buy everything.
Did we all forget that the ions are the SAME being taken up by the plant in synthetic as in the organic? One is broken down to be plant "ready" and the other is broken down by the fungus and bacteria living in the soil. So those "organic" ions can be used by the plant.
The question is more about how much heavy metals are in any one given nutrient product.
Do you ever see any listing on any bag of soil to cover that heavy metal content? How about the components of what we use to build that soil? Any?
NO!
Bat poo
Bird Poo
Cow, steer, rabbit. Any Poo will contain differing amounts of heavy metals, hormones, antibiotics and can even contain medically based drug compounds.....
How about that some don't use Bone meals, Blood meals or even the high mercury fish meals and of course that goes for any broken down or watered liquid products of the same sources.......For the things they contain.
Natural Estrogens are in several plant based products. Human effecting hormones. Are those ok?
What about the ever popular Soft Rock Phosphate as a mineral source?
Even Build a soil, says to use it with caution. Start with it - don't use it for other sources of nutrient. More then that small amount for the minerals, is building up a not so good heavy metal content.
Anybody actually test their soils? YOU know what your dealing with, because you have a complete list of just whats in the soil.
As a farmer, an organic farmer.....I do 2 test's a year on my fields. Before planting and after harvest. After harvest gives me a plan on what to do to amend my fields for their needs as to next year...The spring test gives me a closer to planting date to be sure I have what I need in the soil in the those fields, to match the crop being run there.
As for synthetic nutrients and their sourced products used for the chelation of the actual nutrient. They are only as good as their source material.
A brief word on growth regulators: The bad compounds found to be the cancer causing ones have been found and removed from those that contained them.
If you don't trust the makers of those that did that at one time - Don't use their products! It's that simple....
If you want the actual lists of metal content in any synthetic product? Simply contact the company and they will be provided - free.
For those that want to know just what they put in their soils and would like the soil content of the metals in their soil - Send it to the proper lab and a $100 will get you that..
Soil and synthetic nutrients are like a computer. Garbage in, garbage out!
Lastly, Any gains in flavors/tastes from organic soil/nutrients. Comes from the whole spectrum of what makes up that soil and the working bio's in it.... "The total package" vs. Optimal feeding of "What the plant needs to grow"....
I prefer my organic.
I'm not seeing a whole big difference between the synthetic nutes I've been testing and the soils I make, as far as taste after a proper dry and cure.
I do some supplementing for increased taste profiles with the synthetic......Many who have tried this feel it works well for them too.
Bottom line: Using good solid nutrients, give no more risk of health concerns then a carefully, properly built, organic soil!
There are, of course, insecticides and mold control products that I would never use on a plant that is to be consumed - period.
I hope this opened up some eye's! May the truth set you free.
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
No, you have a misconception and are wording this wrong.
There is no such thing as plant "specific" nutrients. There is plant intended nutrient levels, mixed to deliver what that plant and it's strains - needs to grow better...
It's that simple.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Anyone can "say" that a product is "safe". Even after testing and finding it that way. What if later on, something else is found to be not so good for you? It's a thing from the legal department to "not' do that! Don't leave any door open to catch a lawsuit.
You sure as hell don't see it being done on organic nutrients - lines or the substances we use to build our soils. You don't see that on any bagged soil either!
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Most consumption farmed chickens are raised in conditions you would find as rather bad. They are feed things you don't like and contain more of what your railing against then you think!
If you knew what a chicken eats - in a home farm setting....You might still be inclined to eat the factory farmed chickens..
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
But what company? List them or your doing no more then blowing hot air......this whole idea that synthetic is bad, is stupid!
The plant gets the exact same nutrient ions from synthetic as organic!
Organic can and does, contain the same contaminates (sometimes more of them) as synthetic! Even the soils you build!
Re-using and re-amending these organic home built organic soils. Can build those unwanted compound levels to higher then any synthetic - out of the bottle!
In the end, this thread is really no more then you saying you like organics better.
Good!
Welcome to the club!
But if your saying that organic is safer then synthetic.....Your being mistaken.
Like I said, contact the company about content and they will give it to you.....If they won't - don't use that company's products!
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Here you need smarts too.Ok, Mate I agree with testing the end product. For pesticides and
If for example a caregiver knew the hazards and unknown risks and they knew it wasn't made for cannabis ? Why the fuck would you use it on cannabis. And then get it tested. It's like knocking somebody out and taking them to the hospital after.
It might come out to be safe, but let me stop you, And has anybody really done testing on combustion of the actual material when it's heated up. The chemical makeup will all change. That even goes for organic. For all we know, organic might be worser than chemical. But it all comes down too we need legislation in place. I can only recommend we use maybe strawberry based chemical fertilisers let's say. Atleast it's for food lol. But did you hear recently there was a big shock to the industry when they found out pesticides reamins in your cannabis for longer. Something like 80 percent samples were fucked.
You say most seasoned growers are aware of pgrs, so people are still being idiots and taking risks on human health.
You finally you do agree on the dangers it withholds. Thanks bro seems like we're on the same level here. (Respect)
Yes I do think its up to the patient to really do most of there homework, but why should they really. Thease companies have a way around all the legislations and know all the loopholes in the book. and people want to make money in hydro stores. So it's a never ending vicious cycle.
As I said before, there's hardly been any testing done cannabis itself, it's gonna be a long shot till some company actually makes specific nutrients for cannabis. Weather it organic or chemical.
If we still grew, like the old days, and people were less greedy we would still have our old traditions in place, knower days it's all about the fast life, fast food, fast cars, fast love, fast everything, even fast sex lol. People are taking adavantage, you want to make money, base everything on fast and you will be a multi millionaire.
All I can say, find the most safest ways of growing, and don't believe anybody, not even me. Do your research and choose your own paths. We're all human and I ain't perfect either. Don't follow me.
what ever shit sold in hydro shops is another way of robbing you. Try buying proper organic shit for food. Probably single amendments and blending it your self atleast you know exactly what's in it.
I'm still buying the organic over priced bottles but I haven't got a farm, but cow shit is the one!
What ever you buy, buy it from a reputable company and it's dedicated for food crops!!!!!!!! Ok you won't find a exact nutrient for cannabis lol. And who ever grows commercially will buy products for that fruit or veg. I would go for a strawberry chemical nutrient as it has similar feedings, from what I've been told. Also make sure it's suitable for all your systems and media. And your ready to be a scientist. Maybe after a couple lazy organic grows you test on 2 plants too see if your favour it over your oraganics.
I wouldn't advise buying food crop pesticides, as food you can wash, buy cannabis no no,
Sorry to come on strong bro ,
Lets take pyrethrins. A concentrated from flowers pesticide. Due to exposure to air and the UV light spectrum. Pyrethrins tend to be broken down and harmless in as little as 24hrs.
Real in-depth research should be done before the use of any insecticide..
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Every product you listed has either had the PGR removed and been reformulated or withdrawn from the market.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
here's something I saw when I grew using worms that ate composted marijuana plants indoors.
every grow pot in the rooms had worms in them. If I watered a pot with composted chicken shit/worm castings
etc the worms didnt react at all. If I mixed up a hydro nutrient at quarter strength the worms in that pot squirmed to the top o th epots and tried to get out, they writhed until all of that liquid was absorbed and they stayed on the topsoil until it started drying out.
thats telling to me for whatever its worth, I imagine all 5 billion of my soil beasties writhing at every watering of bottled farm nutrients(which I loved in my beloved hydro days of course)
both my hydro and my organic peat rocked, the nutrients-organic or bottled in each performed perfectly as expected. I like micro beasties though, I think they are an integral part of my results today, and give my product an edge I didnt have have with my hydro.
I first bought my omri composted chicken shit, then I raised 100 a year, composted their shit and used it in my gardens. I did that for a few years then went back to my omri Organicare. I couldnt get over dealing with raw shit daily, didnt like breathing the composting and find the bags easier to use these days. still raise chickens...just for eggs now mostly, still have chickens in the freezer! they were all free ranged full time= makes for tough meat 6 week old chickens too.
all bagged feed corn is likely gmo, the farmers that sell non gmo feed corn get 20 bucks a bag -twice the cost of the other.
every grow pot in the rooms had worms in them. If I watered a pot with composted chicken shit/worm castings
etc the worms didnt react at all. If I mixed up a hydro nutrient at quarter strength the worms in that pot squirmed to the top o th epots and tried to get out, they writhed until all of that liquid was absorbed and they stayed on the topsoil until it started drying out.
thats telling to me for whatever its worth, I imagine all 5 billion of my soil beasties writhing at every watering of bottled farm nutrients(which I loved in my beloved hydro days of course)
both my hydro and my organic peat rocked, the nutrients-organic or bottled in each performed perfectly as expected. I like micro beasties though, I think they are an integral part of my results today, and give my product an edge I didnt have have with my hydro.
I first bought my omri composted chicken shit, then I raised 100 a year, composted their shit and used it in my gardens. I did that for a few years then went back to my omri Organicare. I couldnt get over dealing with raw shit daily, didnt like breathing the composting and find the bags easier to use these days. still raise chickens...just for eggs now mostly, still have chickens in the freezer! they were all free ranged full time= makes for tough meat 6 week old chickens too.
all bagged feed corn is likely gmo, the farmers that sell non gmo feed corn get 20 bucks a bag -twice the cost of the other.
ANC
Well-Known Member
I think Organic should be limited for use only with living soil.
When you are using salts or teas that are just organically sourced, it is not the same as the symbiosis your plants have with soil organisms.
The plant even talks to them by dropping terpenes.
I think Organically Sourced is only a feel good plaster
When I grow in soil, I expect there to be worms and all kinds of bugs in.
When I grow in water I get the chems that do the job, and don't worry about it too much from there.
You can grow perfectly good weed with just kelp. Yeah the plants will be a bit smaller, but it is possible, one doesn't have to spend big bucks.
I pay less than $8 for my complete hydro nute set.
https://hydroponic.co.za/hydroponics/hortimix-nutrient-kit/
Organic living soil can get expensive if you don't have a source for mulch, amendments like meals quickly add up.
When you are using salts or teas that are just organically sourced, it is not the same as the symbiosis your plants have with soil organisms.
The plant even talks to them by dropping terpenes.
I think Organically Sourced is only a feel good plaster
When I grow in soil, I expect there to be worms and all kinds of bugs in.
When I grow in water I get the chems that do the job, and don't worry about it too much from there.
You can grow perfectly good weed with just kelp. Yeah the plants will be a bit smaller, but it is possible, one doesn't have to spend big bucks.
I pay less than $8 for my complete hydro nute set.
https://hydroponic.co.za/hydroponics/hortimix-nutrient-kit/
Organic living soil can get expensive if you don't have a source for mulch, amendments like meals quickly add up.
Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
LMFAO!
Integrity? Organic integrity?
You need to know that the Board that makes up the ORMI. Is just as corrupt and self serving as anything else. There are people on that board with self serving designs and they can be from Drug companies and Nutrient makers.
every meeting is fraught with arguments to bring stupid things onto that ORMI list!
You need to educate yourself on just what organic means, and make your own, informed choices.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
I spend 75 dollars for a 50 lb bag
4 ounces per dose, dosed biweekly x max 5x in flower @
$.375 per dose= $1.87 per five gallon bucket per flowering cycle
my buckets of promix cost 4+ each and I pay 25 dollars a bale. fills 6 buckets for me.
costs me more money to pump water from my well with each watering than it does to bucket, dirt and feed these babes.
never heard of these low grow prices, I didnt start out to save money, it cost me a fortune to arrive to this.
keep it up
@ANC
4 ounces per dose, dosed biweekly x max 5x in flower @
$.375 per dose= $1.87 per five gallon bucket per flowering cycle
my buckets of promix cost 4+ each and I pay 25 dollars a bale. fills 6 buckets for me.
costs me more money to pump water from my well with each watering than it does to bucket, dirt and feed these babes.
never heard of these low grow prices, I didnt start out to save money, it cost me a fortune to arrive to this.
keep it up
@ANC
ANC
Well-Known Member
My plants are unable to read or count, so it is very hard to impress them with labels and prices.
I must say that cheap kit works quite good. I found the MKP quite useful as a foliar as I am growing weed outdoors in winter... the seasons are all fucked up. There is enough sun in the day, but it is cold as hell over night, with snow on the mountains so it creates a lockout in the soil.... part of why weed grown in cold goes purlple. I don't want no purple weed.
I must say that cheap kit works quite good. I found the MKP quite useful as a foliar as I am growing weed outdoors in winter... the seasons are all fucked up. There is enough sun in the day, but it is cold as hell over night, with snow on the mountains so it creates a lockout in the soil.... part of why weed grown in cold goes purlple. I don't want no purple weed.
whitebb2727
Well-Known Member
OMRI is listing agency and nothing more.
Just because something is listed means nothing.
The inspectors for OMRI have discretion and what one would allow another may not.
If it is listed it probably is ok but not garuntee and just because something is not listed doesn't mean its not organic.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
I am grateful for the OmRI labeling I think, sleep and all.....
Hi crazii
Active Member
I don't know if I'm stoned from last night, but there's some clever fuckers commenting. I baffles
How can you base it on just heavy metals, there so many different factors that can fuck us up the question comes down nobody regulates it.
artificial coloring are driven from toxic coal tar that is also used inside the exterior paints and roofing. Artificial colors have been linked to many health problems such as autism, ADHD and cancer. This is also used on food.
Sodium benzoate and BHT are cancerous preservatives added to soft drinks, processed foods or many supplements in order to keep them fresh and prevent harmful bacteria from growing. Both Sodium benzoate and BHT can damage human DNA and cause gastric and bladder cancer, DNA damage and liver problems. Milk Thistle is known to be a great herb for detoxing the body from harmful ingredients in sodas.
The list goes on, yes this shit is in our food. But it's luckily regulated.
cannabis nutrients are not regulated. Sorry chemical bottles which people CHOOSE to grow there plants with are not regulated. So I don't know why people are trying to make them out to be safe.
Why don't we contact any random nutrient company, preferably the popular ones. and see if they admit if there products are for consumable fruits and veg. And also ask them can we grow plants like Tobacco. And ask them who regulates them, And also do there nutrients contain any harmful ingredients which could harm or cause damage.
Who ever is with me, let me know. So we can all get answers from the multi pound operations rather than conflicting each other.
Just copy and paste this.
Dear sir or madam,I'm a little confused, should I choose a dedicated strawberry nutrients. Or would I be able to grow my own fruits and vegetables with your nutrients. And would like to know if your products contain any harmful ingrediants which could harm humans in any way possible. Have your nutrients been tested to be safe for human consumption. Is there any proof to back it up. Are you registered with any food government agencies.
Are your nutrients made for consumable food crops ?
Or are they just for ornamental plants ? Making them unfair for human use.
And also could you be kind enough to let me know your ingrediants, and are they regulated by anybody.
How can you base it on just heavy metals, there so many different factors that can fuck us up the question comes down nobody regulates it.
artificial coloring are driven from toxic coal tar that is also used inside the exterior paints and roofing. Artificial colors have been linked to many health problems such as autism, ADHD and cancer. This is also used on food.
Sodium benzoate and BHT are cancerous preservatives added to soft drinks, processed foods or many supplements in order to keep them fresh and prevent harmful bacteria from growing. Both Sodium benzoate and BHT can damage human DNA and cause gastric and bladder cancer, DNA damage and liver problems. Milk Thistle is known to be a great herb for detoxing the body from harmful ingredients in sodas.
The list goes on, yes this shit is in our food. But it's luckily regulated.
cannabis nutrients are not regulated. Sorry chemical bottles which people CHOOSE to grow there plants with are not regulated. So I don't know why people are trying to make them out to be safe.
Why don't we contact any random nutrient company, preferably the popular ones. and see if they admit if there products are for consumable fruits and veg. And also ask them can we grow plants like Tobacco. And ask them who regulates them, And also do there nutrients contain any harmful ingredients which could harm or cause damage.
Who ever is with me, let me know. So we can all get answers from the multi pound operations rather than conflicting each other.
Just copy and paste this.
Dear sir or madam,I'm a little confused, should I choose a dedicated strawberry nutrients. Or would I be able to grow my own fruits and vegetables with your nutrients. And would like to know if your products contain any harmful ingrediants which could harm humans in any way possible. Have your nutrients been tested to be safe for human consumption. Is there any proof to back it up. Are you registered with any food government agencies.
Are your nutrients made for consumable food crops ?
Or are they just for ornamental plants ? Making them unfair for human use.
And also could you be kind enough to let me know your ingrediants, and are they regulated by anybody.
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Dr. Who
Well-Known Member
Autism is not on the list. Why use a nutrient with a color anyway? So don't! The VAST majority of quality synthetics' use NO DYE'S - period!
Don't even bother to bring up how many are "brown". That's from the use of kelp as a source.
: The problem here is if it's mixed with citric or ascorbic acid!
: BHA is the real bad one - you missed that.
So give me a list of nutrients that actually contain these......I want to know.......All the top rated lines and the ones I find as quality - Do NOT contain them! Even the supplements......
Heavy metals are the Real main problem sport!.
Neither are Organic - Other then source materials used..... None of the packaged Poo's, meals or compost's, or anything used to build soils are "regulated" either.... So any point your trying to make by using the word "regulated" is moot!
MANY of the top nutrient lines were intended for food production - In fact designed for it! Everything from herbs, tomato's and even vine crops!
How about you take a look at the leading outlet for US hydroponic production growing. American Hydro.
https://amhydro.com/
Look around a bit? Notice that they custom blend to your needs? They formulate their own nutrient formula's to what you grow.
How about you call them and ask about what's in their products.
Farmtek is another that carries Hydrofarming supplies. With a large selection of equipment, for nutrient lines. They feature Botanicare and Flying Skull products only.
These 2 are just the tip of the iceburg.....Once you get to Europe, it truly expands! Some hydrofarms in the Netherlands are expansive and serve to the whole EU.
There are world wide debates on just what is more healthy, soil or hydro...... They are heated and still go on, all the time.
So then sir. I find your statements as reactionary and overblown!
You are not specific on any label(s) and as far as preservatives go. Your only reacting to another members comment...
You show no real, knowledge of nutrient contents and the section on pg 1 you posted is no more then an internet cut and paste job from an old notice.
On that, like I said before. "Bad" PGR's are not used anymore.....
Nutrient bottle contents are reported far more then you think! Simply look at Oregon's listing of all available things and it's simple to choose from there....Don't you think?
The real issue is heavy metal content! Know why?
Because MJ is an "accumulater" plant...... Metal levels build in MJ! Being aware of that, is a very important issue in growing medicine!
Your making a mountain out of a mole hill, and attempting to scare the uninformed.
The VAST MAJORITY of available nutrient lines are safe for use to grow MMJ. It's simply up to you to do any research into the questions you may have to decide what one you want to use.
Please stop the grandstanding.
chemphlegm
Well-Known Member
I think someone wants to sell an organic fertilizer marketed to marijuana growers