Why Do People Believe Weird Things... Confirmation Bias

researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
guy incognito said:
uh what? I think we have read different physics books. I don't think anything escapes the black hole either. Particle-Anti-particle pairs form outside the event horizon, and occasionally one particle "escapes" the black hole while the other crosses the event horizon dooming it to the singularity. This is hawking radiation and eventually leads to the evaporation of the black hole in accordance with the equation e=mc^2.

I don't think your description of everything else is accurate either.
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I think I've read the physics books, and you skipped em. ;)

It isnt doomed into a singularity, matter isnt destroyed there, its just made infinitely dense and infinitely hot. Its still the same matter. Its just really, really small. Just when you think its really small, it gets smaller and hotter.

With respect to anything else I've said, dont say "I dont think its accurate", state what IS accurate, else mine stands. Beat the Theory of Kitty! :) I'm happy to be proven wrong. I update my physics/astronomy thinking all the time as new methods develop. I would have laughed if you said a particle escaped a black hole a few years ago.

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Nothing that falls into a black hole can come back out again -- at least not in its original form. But a black hole may lose some of its mass. Quantum theory says that "virtual pairs" of particles sometimes wink into existence from the fabric of space itself. These particles quickly cancel each other out and vanish. But if a pair of particles appear just outside a black hole's horizon, one may fall inside, never to make it outside again. If the one on the outside doesn't fall through the horizon, then the particles can't cancel each other out. In essence, that "steals" a little bit of mass from a black hole. Over countless billions of billions of billions of years, the mass loss could become substantial enough to cause the black hole to vaporize. Material would come out, but not in its original form -- only as energy and subatomic particles. This energy is known as Hawking radiation in honor of Stephen Hawking, the physicist who first described it.
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So yea, there's a cut and paste.

You say nothing escapes a black hole.

I say that because of Hawking Radiation, and the fact that the particle escape leads to the black holes evaporation (and subsuquent redelivery of all the mass inside of the black hole to its parent universe, however extremely dense!) that EVERYTHING escapes a black hole!

Lets also not forget that there's billions of black holes in the air around us and in our bodies and everywhere. They are called Micro Black Holes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole ) and they are part of every day life. Not many people know we live in a world of 11 dimensions, not just spacetime's 4.

So anyway, if you wanna prove me wrong, cool, just actually do it, dont talk about doing it. :) When you prove me wrong I learn and so does everyone else something new!
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
Hypnos said:
Right maybe its nonsense, interesting would be what science thinks about the solar system right now (is there a change? if yes how do they describe it?)

But lets stick to the facts because its not only believ in all these ET stuff, there are many things going on that are actually experienceable and have been experienced by some individuals.

1. A lot of Ex militaries have come forward the past years talking mostly about their experiences with UFO sightings and sometimes about ETs
2. There are a lot of UFO Videos on the net. Some maybe clearly fake while others look decent.
Examples:
http://www.disclose.tv/action/viewvideo/63129/New_Zealand_Releases_UFO_X_Files_Videos__amp__Papers/
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Cq0g0IFSl3o&feature=related
3. Many people have seen UFOs for themselves.
4. Crop circles and reports of "light balls" hovering over them.

Thats why i say theres some possibility to it that is founded.
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This reminds me of how I once felt. I used to watch the show Sightings and think to myself, how can these naive scientists ignore all these paranormal reports. I mean sure there are crazies out there, and hoaxers, but some of these claims and phenomena are persistent. Some of them transcend culture, era, upbringing, social class, ect. How can that number of people be reporting strange stuff for such a long time if there is nothing to it?

The answer I found was that all people around the globe make the same mistakes. Simple as that. A lot of it comes from poor education, we can't all know everything. It comes from a misunderstanding of how science, nature and the human brain works, and an ignorance of how to correctly evaluate evidence. Once you become familiar with the fallacies that lead to these beliefs, it become second nature to see through them with a little examination. This is the trait I used to see in scientists as smug.
 
guy incognito

guy incognito

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
I think I've read the physics books, and you skipped em. ;)

It isnt doomed into a singularity, matter isnt destroyed there, its just made infinitely dense and infinitely hot. Its still the same matter. Its just really, really small. Just when you think its really small, it gets smaller and hotter.

With respect to anything else I've said, dont say "I dont think its accurate", state what IS accurate, else mine stands. Beat the Theory of Kitty! :) I'm happy to be proven wrong. I update my physics/astronomy thinking all the time as new methods develop. I would have laughed if you said a particle escaped a black hole a few years ago.

---------
Nothing that falls into a black hole can come back out again -- at least not in its original form. But a black hole may lose some of its mass. Quantum theory says that "virtual pairs" of particles sometimes wink into existence from the fabric of space itself. These particles quickly cancel each other out and vanish. But if a pair of particles appear just outside a black hole's horizon, one may fall inside, never to make it outside again. If the one on the outside doesn't fall through the horizon, then the particles can't cancel each other out. In essence, that "steals" a little bit of mass from a black hole. Over countless billions of billions of billions of years, the mass loss could become substantial enough to cause the black hole to vaporize. Material would come out, but not in its original form -- only as energy and subatomic particles. This energy is known as Hawking radiation in honor of Stephen Hawking, the physicist who first described it.
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So yea, there's a cut and paste.

You say nothing escapes a black hole.

I say that because of Hawking Radiation, and the fact that the particle escape leads to the black holes evaporation (and subsuquent redelivery of all the mass inside of the black hole to its parent universe, however extremely dense!) that EVERYTHING escapes a black hole!

Lets also not forget that there's billions of black holes in the air around us and in our bodies and everywhere. They are called Micro Black Holes ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micro_black_hole ) and they are part of every day life. Not many people know we live in a world of 11 dimensions, not just spacetime's 4.

So anyway, if you wanna prove me wrong, cool, just actually do it, dont talk about doing it. :) When you prove me wrong I learn and so does everyone else something new!
Click to expand...

A particle entering a black hole is doomed in the sense that it will never again cross the event horizon, not that it will be destroyed. The conservation of mass and energy still apply, which is why I think you are wrong in stating that the laws of physics break down. Some laws do break down, but not those nor e=mc^2. Usually we use relativity to explain and predict massive objects, and quantum mechanics to explain objects on a quantum level, and each works remarkably well in their respective domains. A black hole is both massive and infinitely small, so which theory do we use since they are incompatible to use simultaneously? Therein lies our laws of physics breaking down.

I say that nothing escapes a black hole, then go on to explain hawking radiation in a nearly identical fashion to the cut and paste you did. I'm not sure of your point. It almost seems like you are disagreeing with me, then posting the exact thing I explained.

researchkitty said:
The big bang was *not* a singularity. It was the explosion of infinitely hot and infinite mass matter.
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I don't understand this either. As far as I know the universe was a singularity before the big bang. It also did not have infinite mass. It contained all the mass (in the equivalent form of energy) in the universe, which is finite.
 
Hypnos

Hypnos

Active Member
Heisenberg said:
The answer I found was that all people around the globe make the same mistakes. Simple as that. A lot of it comes from poor education, we can't all know everything. It comes from a misunderstanding of how science, nature and the human brain works, and an ignorance of how to correctly evaluate evidence. Once you become familiar with the fallacies that lead to these beliefs, it become second nature to see through them with a little examination. This is the trait I used to see in scientists as smug.
Click to expand...
Yep mistakes are there...
 

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researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
guy incognito said:
A particle entering a black hole is doomed in the sense that it will never again cross the event horizon, not that it will be destroyed. The conservation of mass and energy still apply, which is why I think you are wrong in stating that the laws of physics break down. Some laws do break down, but not those nor e=mc^2. Usually we use relativity to explain and predict massive objects, and quantum mechanics to explain objects on a quantum level, and each works remarkably well in their respective domains. A black hole is both massive and infinitely small, so which theory do we use since they are incompatible to use simultaneously? Therein lies our laws of physics breaking down.

I say that nothing escapes a black hole, then go on to explain hawking radiation in a nearly identical fashion to the cut and paste you did. I'm not sure of your point. It almost seems like you are disagreeing with me, then posting the exact thing I explained.



I don't understand this either. As far as I know the universe was a singularity before the big bang. It also did not have infinite mass. It contained all the mass (in the equivalent form of energy) in the universe, which is finite.
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The Universe was a singularity before it was created simply as a result of time not being a factor. Time didnt exist before our Universe.

I think the problem I see with your posts is that you keep assuming we live in one Universe. We dont. Our universe divides infinitely and their divisions divide infinitely as well all the time every time. It's called a Multiverse.

Hawking Radiation has been around since the 1970's, that's when Stephen's theory was published and revised ever since then all the time. The information paradox created by his radiation, indicates that if matter enters a black hole, and cant escape, then eventually the entire Universe would be in a black hole and we would have no existence. That's the Paradox, we know that cant happen because we're still here.

He solved that Paradox in 2004, quietly, and it didnt make too much press. Most people dont keep on the cutting edge of science, just what they learn or hear on TV, which is why most people probably dont even know we live in a Multiverse (M-Theory) 11 dimension life.

The solution was that as the universe cools, black holes emit more of their heat in Hawking radiation, and eventually open up to reveal again the "information" that they originally sucked in when they formed. Ergo, no information is lost, and our existence is saved. ;-)

( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/hawking-answers-his-own-paradox-of-the-black-holes-553209.html ) is one of the few news articles about it from 2004. Solving the problem still means nothing, it is what it is. However, knowing how black holes work in the best detail possible will help our efforts with CERN and the Large Hadron Collider.

Of course, Stephen Hawking could be 100% wrong, just as Newtons thoughts on gravity were cute but widely inaccurate. Things change every day its hard to keep up with stuff.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
The Universe was a singularity before it was created simply as a result of time not being a factor. Time didnt exist before our Universe.

I think the problem I see with your posts is that you keep assuming we live in one Universe. We dont. Our universe divides infinitely and their divisions divide infinitely as well all the time every time. It's called a Multiverse.

Hawking Radiation has been around since the 1970's, that's when Stephen's theory was published and revised ever since then all the time. The information paradox created by his radiation, indicates that if matter enters a black hole, and cant escape, then eventually the entire Universe would be in a black hole and we would have no existence. That's the Paradox, we know that cant happen because we're still here.

He solved that Paradox in 2004, quietly, and it didnt make too much press. Most people dont keep on the cutting edge of science, just what they learn or hear on TV, which is why most people probably dont even know we live in a Multiverse (M-Theory) 11 dimension life.

The solution was that as the universe cools, black holes emit more of their heat in Hawking radiation, and eventually open up to reveal again the "information" that they originally sucked in when they formed. Ergo, no information is lost, and our existence is saved. ;-)

( http://www.independent.co.uk/news/uk/this-britain/hawking-answers-his-own-paradox-of-the-black-holes-553209.html ) is one of the few news articles about it from 2004. Solving the problem still means nothing, it is what it is. However, knowing how black holes work in the best detail possible will help our efforts with CERN and the Large Hadron Collider.

Of course, Stephen Hawking could be 100% wrong, just as Newtons thoughts on gravity were cute but widely inaccurate. Things change every day its hard to keep up with stuff.
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Not only is the multiverse hypothesis not yet supported by actual evidence and not considered scientific consensus, your characterization of the information paradox is incorrect and has nothing to do with 'the whole universe becoming a black hole.' It has to do with the idea that it violates causality and if it can do that, then all of reality is in question. Also, it wasn't solved by Hawking but basically conceded and admitted that information is not lost forever. Leonard Susskind has come up with one method of resolving the paradox using string theory called the holographic universe.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
Isn't it true that he stole the idea from Sheldon Cooper?
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IDK. I dumped cable and rely now on Hulu and Netflix. Unfortunately CBS has decided that they no longer wish to have their shows on Hulu AND they no longer have complete episodes on their website. It appears that CBS, like the RIAA and MPAA, are having a hard time dealing with the way consumers prefer to get their entertainment. [/rant]
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
mindphuk said:
IDK. I dumped cable and rely now on Hulu and Netflix. Unfortunately CBS has decided that they no longer wish to have their shows on Hulu AND they no longer have complete episodes on their website. It appears that CBS, like the RIAA and MPAA, are having a hard time dealing with the way consumers prefer to get their entertainment. [/rant]
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Does thepiratebay.org not work for you or something? :)
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
Does thepiratebay.org not work for you or something? :)
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No, I just like watching tv shows on my tv. I guess if CBS doesn't care that instead of watching on their own site or Hulu, I watch pirated versions without their commercials, then I guess I don't care either. Yet with all of the content available to me now, the extra steps require to download and watch torrents isn't appealing to this lazy stoner.
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
lol so you got the reference?

I have 14Tb now of downloaded material. Haven't seen a commercial in about 6 years aside from when I am at friends. Actually tried signing up with direct TV last week for my x-roomies new place and it couldn't have been a more confusing, more frustrating, more fruitless experience. They finally came to install and wanted an extra installation fee because the dish has to be in the yard, so he sent them packing. The local cable company just raised basic cable by $15 while at the same time dropped ABC and Fox. A lot of cable companies are demanding a 2 year contract now, at least around here. My roomie just took the money he would have spent on installation and bought a 2tb external, problem solved. isohunt.com is a much more comprehensive place to get torrents BTW. Pirate bay is a last resort for me, but they do occasionally have things you can't find elsewhere.

I simply have a PC dedicated to storage and playback. The video card has HDMI out and my TV has HDMI in, so everything I watch is on a TV rather than the PC. The only problem with having a huge on-demand library is that you don't always know what you feel like watching. Sometimes it's nice to be presented with options instead.

Wow this thread has gone way off topic. I suppose that's because most smart people already knew about confirmation bias, and those who didn't, don't care.
 
mindphuk

mindphuk

Well-Known Member
Heisenberg said:
lol so you got the reference?

I have 14Tb now of downloaded material. Haven't seen a commercial in about 6 years aside from when I am at friends. Actually tried signing up with direct TV last week for my x-roomies new place and it couldn't have been a more confusing, more frustrating, more fruitless experience. They finally came to install and wanted an extra installation fee because the dish has to be in the yard, so he sent them packing. The local cable company just raised basic cable by $15 while at the same time dropped ABC and Fox. A lot of cable companies are demanding a 2 year contract now, at least around here. My roomie just took the money he would have spent on installation and bought a 2tb external, problem solved. isohunt.com is a much more comprehensive place to get torrents BTW. Pirate bay is a last resort for me, but they do occasionally have things you can't find elsewhere.

I simply have a PC dedicated to storage and playback. The video card has HDMI out and my TV has HDMI in, so everything I watch is on a TV rather than the PC. The only problem with having a huge on-demand library is that you don't always know what you feel like watching. Sometimes it's nice to be presented with options instead.

Wow this thread has gone way off topic. I suppose that's because most smart people already knew about confirmation bias, and those who didn't, don't care.
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I bought a media server and planned on using it to stream downloads to my PS3. Now I'm having problems downloading torrents and issues with port forwarding. As soon as that's resolved, I should be okay. Now I just need to install tversity or something like it so I can get live sports streamed.
 
researchkitty

researchkitty

Well-Known Member
Laptop HDMI --> TV. Done. I have a laptop just for it, cost $400 new with the HDMI port right on it. Or, two months cable bill. :)
 
Heisenberg

Heisenberg

Well-Known Member
researchkitty said:
Laptop HDMI --> TV. Done. I have a laptop just for it, cost $400 new with the HDMI port right on it. Or, two months cable bill. :)
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Almost any new TV bought in the last couple years comes with a VGA port as well, so no need to buy a separate video card if you don't already have one. HDMI is a superior option though.

I have the media PC conencted to a small flat monitor as well that sits on my coffee table. I use it as a sort of kiosk to navigate and do computer stuff while my TV acts only as a display for video.
 
brownbearclan

brownbearclan

Active Member
tardis said:
I have faith that Ronald McDonald made God. That he manifests thru McDonalds. If you don't have faith in that like I do then you are just simply unable to see the truth, you are blind. Open your heart to Ronald McDonald and your soul will live forever! You see, Ronald McDonald made God, who made creation, who made scientific theory who made evolution. Don't you see it all goes back to Ronald McDonald, have faith or you'll burn in taco hell forever.
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I think I'm going to have a shrine made with this on it. =)
 
tardis

tardis

Well-Known Member
brownbearclan said:
I think I'm going to have a shrine made with this on it. =)
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Equal Absurdity is the only way you can get through sometimes. Offer equally absurd beliefs in a different way and either they figure otu how you see them, or they react to you as they deserve to be reacted to.

by equally absurd I mean equally logical idea that they demand me to buy into suddenly.
 
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