What do you think about preventing drug overdoses by legalizing drugs?

[OddBall1st]

No, we don't. Look at alcoholics. We give them the opportunities to cure themselves and keep themselves clean the moment they pony up the necessary will. This is a decision only the addict can make and enforce. It can be dirt-cheap. Yes please! Show me a study or two. and this has what relevance to drugs?

Example: the implication that addiction rates will soar if the hard drugs are made available. You think this is fact or maybe even axiom. I say "show me". It's not an easy argument to either defend or knock down, because the data are so skewed by policy, and policymakers who have too many fingers in the penal pie to be honest about the real shape of the healthcare and civil issues involved. So until then I'm going with a more genteel way of essentially saying "nuh-uuuh! Prove it!"

You are so pissed at me you fail to see the trick or treater`s is the proof of the candy store theory. Go to NBC NEWS.com and look up.... Pain Pill Peddlers controlled clinic through violence. Don`t know how to link it. It`s proof that availability leads to swarms and induced violence. Look at what`s at the door every morning. Just broke today

 

[OddBall1st]

let me ask you this oddball..

have you ever done hard drugs? if not, why not? was it the fact that these drugs were illegal?
if the answer is yes to question a, my next question is, do you smoke cannabis? why hasn't the fact that cannabis is illegal stopped you from smoking it?

Easy, No I have not. Because I listened to my mom`s warnings. I smoke pot because I don`t drink and see what drinking does, smell what drinking is, and cant hide it neither.

So you know, I live in the inner city, have known and lost friends to hard drugs. They taught me what I know. Witnessed a lot too. For over 50 yrs.

 

[racerboy71]

Easy, No I have not. Because I listened to my mom`s warnings. I smoke pot because I don`t drink and see what drinking does, smell what drinking is, and cant hide it neither.

So you know, I live in the inner city, have known and lost friends to hard drugs. They taught me what I know. Witnessed a lot too. For over 50 yrs.

hey, now we're finally getting some where.. most people are like you imo.. they heed the warnings or see it first hand and don't do hard drugs.. some people like myself are hard headed and have to find out for ourselves..

but you've just admitted that it wasn't the fact that drugs were illegal that kept you from doing them, you listened to your mom and just said no.. you don't think if they were legal you'd not listen to mom and just say no then too, or do you think that if hard drugs were legal, people wouldn't still warn their kids not to do them?

 

[cannabineer]

You are so pissed at me you fail to see the trick or treater`s is the proof of the candy store theory. Go to NBC NEWS.com and look up.... Pain Pill Peddlers controlled clinic through violence. Don`t know how to link it. It`s proof that availability leads to swarms and induced violence. Look at what`s at the door every morning. Just broke today

I am not pissed at you. This isn't an emotional argument. I say candy v. heroin is a false equivalency. Also "pain pill peddlers" is happening here today and not representative of the situation we are discussing. In a less artificial market, each dose would be pennies.

 

[OddBall1st]

hey, now we're finally getting some where.. most people are like you imo.. they heed the warnings or see it first hand and don't do hard drugs.. some people like myself are hard headed and have to find out for ourselves..

but you've just admitted that it wasn't the fact that drugs were illegal that kept you from doing them, you listened to your mom and just said no.. you don't think if they were legal you'd not listen to mom and just say no then too, or do you think that if hard drugs were legal, people wouldn't still warn their kids not to do them?

It wouldn't matter. She taught me about poison ivy too. I don't mess with that either.

 

[racerboy71]

It wouldn't matter. She taught me about poison ivy too. I don't mess with that either.

so we agree then, if certain drugs were suddenly made legal, a line of people who had never tried them before wouldn't suddenly start filled with a bunch of people who think like you..
glad we can agree with that.

 

[OddBall1st]

I am not pissed at you. This isn't an emotional argument. I say candy v. heroin is a false equivalency. Also "pain pill peddlers" is happening here today and not representative of the situation we are discussing. In a less artificial market, each dose would be pennies.

Candy is a kids herorin and they get kinda addicted. I have them. This is a fair comparrison. It is made available, they swarm to it and the probability of them being addicts is more than just good. Violece is present and welcome there as well. I offered an example as you requested and will always. It's not the most accurate but backs what I say about legalization not being a good answer. This is a case of availibility straight from pfizer and attraction to it. The leading to death I have witnessed. I'm not trying to fool or lie to anyone in this debate.

 

[dr.gonzo1]

And the pain pills experience is out of control because all the good drugs are illegal. Watch the rates of these drop of if people could get high responsibly on known and historically used drugs, used successfully by many people all over the world.

People wouldn't be as driven to make meth in a garage somewhere if you' can get lsd from you're local 7/11. It would be a whole different market

 

[OddBall1st]

so we agree then, if certain drugs were suddenly made legal, a line of people who had never tried them before wouldn't suddenly start filled with a bunch of people who think like you..
glad we can agree with that.

That'gonna have to be a wait and see thing. There are those curios and tempted plus pressured people to be wary of. But I see lines of addicts with smiles for miles there for sure.

 

[OddBall1st]

And the pain pills experience is out of control because all the good drugs are illegal. Watch the rates of these drop of if people could get high responsibly on known and historically used drugs, used successfully by many people all over the world.

People wouldn't be as driven to make meth in a garage somewhere if you' can get lsd from you're local 7/11. It would be a whole different market

Like China's sucess story of drug abuse or third world countries going nowhere?

 

[dr.gonzo1]

Like China's sucess story of drug abuse or third world countries going nowhere?

But you're happy to ignore Portugal?

 

[donmagicjuan]

i vote other, its going to get worse before it gets better

 

[kinetic]

But you're happy to ignore Portugal?

There's a limit on what one can have and there are still fines involved. Much like a parking ticket.

Also at the height in the 90s we're talking about 100,000 abusers out of a populace of 10 million. Scope on both addicts and population is totally different in the U.S.

Police still search people for drugs and if found with more than the alloted amount are treated as dealers.
There is a misconception that Drugs are legal in Portugal. They are not. They are decriminalized. I would rather see that route than what people on the forum are talking which is putting the government or walmart in charge of these hard drugs. Another thing is decriminalization also needs to be accompanied by education and drug prevention clinics.

Edit:Yes I know they have government Ganja sales. So does ours, in case someone reading this didn't know. It's grown at the University of Mississippi. NY has finally stated that's where they are going to get theirs from for the medical trial starting this year.

 

[OddBall1st]

But you're happy to ignore Portugal?

Really, I mentioned it in this thread.

 

[dr.gonzo1]

Really, I mentioned it in this thread.

Eh, fair one. Should really have read before posting.

Kinetic makes a good point aswell. I thought heroin was issued by the state to addicts as well as decriminalisation of other substances though.

No easy solution but I would love to be able to get high when and how I wanted. I'm obviously swayed by a selfish desire to get out my tits on hallucinogens.

 

[gR33nDav3l0l]

Legalization revolves around market momentum, not public concern.

 

[racerboy71]

There's a limit on what one can have and there are still fines involved. Much like a parking ticket.

Also at the height in the 90s we're talking about 100,000 abusers out of a populace of 10 million. Scope on both addicts and population is totally different in the U.S.

Police still search people for drugs and if found with more than the alloted amount are treated as dealers.
There is a misconception that Drugs are legal in Portugal. They are not. They are decriminalized. I would rather see that route than what people on the forum are talking which is putting the government or walmart in charge of these hard drugs. Another thing is decriminalization also needs to be accompanied by education and drug prevention clinics.

Edit:Yes I know they have government Ganja sales. So does ours, in case someone reading this didn't know. It's grown at the University of Mississippi. NY has finally stated that's where they are going to get theirs from for the medical trial starting this year.

as to the new york thing kinetic, are you talking about those 5 or 6 hospitals that are supposed to be giving out cannabis soon?

 

[OddBall1st]

Eh, fair one. Should really have read before posting.

Kinetic makes a good point aswell. I thought heroin was issued by the state to addicts as well as decriminalisation of other substances though.

No easy solution but I would love to be able to get high when and how I wanted. I'm obviously swayed by a selfish desire to get out my tits on hallucinogens.

It was once legal here in the US many moons ago as an oddity durring traveling shows in one of those potion bottle scams. So technacally it was tried before.

 

[Padawanbater2]

If you start imprisoning people for doing illegal drugs, one would expect that line to go up as more do it. Well it did. What`s the problem again ?

Incarceration does not change addiction or consumption rates of illegal drugs, the entire purpose of the war on drugs, that and total eradication which is impossible.

Supporting the war on drugs means you support making criminals out of regular people and the inevitable spike in crime rates that follow

It's a proven failed policy, and only the ignorant support it

 

[curious2garden]

Eh, fair one. Should really have read before posting.

Kinetic makes a good point aswell. I thought heroin was issued by the state to addicts as well as decriminalisation of other substances though.

No easy solution but I would love to be able to get high when and how I wanted. I'm obviously swayed by a selfish desire to get out my tits on hallucinogens.

Methadone was substituted for Heroin as Heroin is a Schedule 1. Methadone is much worse than Heroin but H had the entire German stigma attached when this public policy was made.

Almost all the physicians are aware prohibition of any drugs is a huge mistake. The are also going to be using Sativex as a Marijuana diversion drug. So my guess is this entire medical marijuana thing will be ending. Then we are going loggerheads with the prohibitionists.

Completely disagree. Legal access of fentanyl caused the "Hot" heroin. A buddy of mine OD from a fentanyl patch he legally acquired because he abused it. The argument of legalization leading to fewer deaths can probably be countered with some stats of OD from legally acquired pharmas.

Bullshit, the INSTANT that Fentanyl Citrate was diverted it was just as illegal as the questionable heroin it mixed with. Prohibition does NOT SAVE ANYONE! It only makes it impossible. If Heroin was legal (for adults not children) you would buy your Narcan next to your Heroin because it wouldn't be illegal EITHER!

You would KNOW the dose! No more deaths from hot loads. You could buy cheap syringes and stop Hep B, Hep C, and AIDS etc.... how does this benefit people?

Also mark these words. Sativex is being positioned as Methadone for Pot. Really consider the ramifications of that and if you don't believe pull out google and LOOK at their human testing.

I am now done with the topic. I won't speak on prohibition again.