Khalid Sheikh Mohammed

[abandonconflict]

No, im clearly not speaking of the books of Hadith ,im clearly speaking of the Quran itself, which over rides all verses within the books of Hadith & is the final word .

Except what you described was vastly inaccurate.

 

[TBoneJack]

Except what you described was vastly inaccurate.

Well, if the Quran is a peaceful book, then how did terrorists like KSM and bin Laden develop hatred for the US?

That was the original question in this thread. Do you have an opinion on that?

 

[abandonconflict]

Well, if the Quran is a peaceful book, then how did terrorists like KSM and bin Laden develop hatred for the US?

That was the original question in this thread.

I'm just responding to all of the false claims of what it contains. You and Harrekin both made claims regarding what the book contains, got schooled, and now you're both trying to move goalposts. It is quite bigoted to claim that Muslim people are violent because you think that their book commands them to commit violence. You've never even read the Quran.

I will answer your question anyway. It was politics. Politics made the terrorists hate the United States.

 

[desert dude]

Well, if the Quran is a peaceful book, then how did terrorists like KSM and bin Laden develop hatred for the US?

That was the original question in this thread. Do you have an opinion on that?

It was the crusades, dude. That and the Spanish Inquisition. Those and the Salem witch trials. I am pretty sure some kooky Christians have murdered some abortion doctors as well.

Because of those incidents, Muslims are teflon-coated as far as some RIU nuts are concerned.

All the raping and murdering by Muslims is of no concern because Judge Roy Bean in Alabama wants the ten commandments in the courthouse square in TinyTown, Alabama.

It all makes perfect sense in the "let's bring back communism" left. To those of us who lived through the cold war, it is a bit mystifying.

 

[abandonconflict]

ya mean, that book you clearly don't even understand in the least?

and why do you speak out against pedophilia here, when over in another thread you are giving likes to robroy who is stating that pedophilia can be consensual?

He's just doing his damndest to insist that all Muslims are evil. He failed to show that the Quran commands violence, so now he's just insulting Muhammad because he hates Muslim people. Of course, he has a few Muslim friends, but they're "bad Muslims", since they're peaceful.

 

[TBoneJack]

I'm just responding to all of the false claims of what it contains. You and Harrekin both made claims regarding what the book contains, got schooled, and now you're both trying to move goalposts. It is quite bigoted to claim that Muslim people are violent because you think that their book commands them to commit violence. You've never even read the Quran.

I will answer your question anyway. It was politics. Politics made the terrorists hate the United States.

I have never read the Quran. So I am guilty as charged.

Do you not think the Quran could be interpreted in radical, violent ways like some Christians have interpreted the Bible over the years?

 

[abandonconflict]

I have never read the Quran. So I am guilty as charged.

Do you not think that the Quran could be interpreted in radical, violent ways like some Christians have interpreted the Bible over the years?

Yes, that's what I'm arguing. The quran doesn't command Muslim people to commit violence. Those who say it does are incorrect, and yes, there is a growing movement of Salafist Jihad who have been misreading the book in the last few decades.

 

[TBoneJack]

Yes, that's what I'm arguing. The quran doesn't command Muslim people to commit violence. Those who say it does are incorrect, and yes, there is a growing movement of Salafist Jihad who have been misreading the book in the last few decades.

I'm just curious, but it's none of my business, I know. But you're an atheist, and yet you seem very knowledgeable about the Quran. Did you take religion courses in college, or were you just interested enough to read all on your own?

And have you studied the Christian Bible as well?

 

[desert dude]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya

Quran

Jizya is sanctioned by the Qur'an, the primary source of Islamic law, based on the following verse:[7]


Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.


—Qur'an, [Quran 9:29]

Since the verse does not define what jizya means, hadith texts are needed to provide the definition. Not all scholar agree on the exact definition,[citation needed] most notably the Quranist scholars[who?] as they generally avoid hadith-inspired interpretation of the Qur'an.[citation needed]

 

[abandonconflict]

It was the crusades, dude. That and the Spanish Inquisition. Those and the Salem witch trials. I am pretty sure some kooky Christians have murdered some abortion doctors as well.

Because of those incidents, Muslims are teflon-coated as far as some RIU nuts are concerned.

All the raping and murdering by Muslims is of no concern because Judge Roy Bean in Alabama wants the ten commandments in the courthouse square in TinyTown, Alabama.

It all makes perfect sense in the "let's bring back communism" left. To those of us who lived through the cold war, it is a bit mystifying.

Except nobody is saying anything that resembles this nonsense, so yet again you're just full of shit. Some people who have never read a book think they know what it's about and I'm making fools of them.

 

[abandonconflict]

I'm just curious, but it's none of my business, I know. But you're an atheist, and yet you seem very knowledgeable about the Quran. Did you take religion courses in college, or were you just interested enough to read all on your own?

And have you studied the Christian Bible as well?

I read books.

 

[abandonconflict]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Jizya

Quran

Jizya is sanctioned by the Qur'an, the primary source of Islamic law, based on the following verse:[7]

Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

—Qur'an, [Quran 9:29]

Since the verse does not define what jizya means, hadith texts are needed to provide the definition. Not all scholar agree on the exact definition,[citation needed] most notably the Quranist scholars[who?] as they generally avoid hadith-inspired interpretation of the Qur'an.[citation needed]

You're late to this discussion dumb ass.

9:29 refers to a specific defensive battle as I stated earlier in this thread when another dumbass cited it.

Dumb ass.

 

[ginwilly]

Yes, that's what I'm arguing. The quran doesn't command Muslim people to commit violence. Those who say it does are incorrect, and yes, there is a growing movement of Salafist Jihad who have been misreading the book in the last few decades.

One of the doctors I work with is strong Muslim faith and he says he was taught by the Qua ran that taking a life goes against Allah, he won't even kill a spider (he laughed and said all bets are off for mice though). He also says that there are those that interpret it in such a way they can justify killing non-believers in the same way Christians like the Westboro Church interpret the bible in such a way to do the evil shit they do.

He also said those extremists play on the uneducated and hungry to further that cause.

So yeah, holy books (pick a book any book) give some nutjobs justification for a lot of bad stuff. We can't deny if you cherry pick those books that it says it what it says. Painting the entire religion with the same brush is where people go wrong. I know you are saying that already, so I'm not accusing you of it. It seemed at first you were denying those people exist, but this post tells me you get it.

 

[abandonconflict]

And yes, Muhammad was a pedophile. But to say that this reflects upon Islam or the contents of the quran is vastly incorrect. Aristotle was a pedophile and he invented formal logic, does that reflect upon everyone who uses formal logic?

 

[desert dude]

http://corpus.quran.com/translation.jsp?chapter=9&verse=29

All seven translations say the same thing. Here are the first three.

Sahih International: Fight those who do not believe in Allah or in the Last Day and who do not consider unlawful what Allah and His Messenger have made unlawful and who do not adopt the religion of truth from those who were given the Scripture - [fight] until they give the jizyah willingly while they are humbled.


Pickthall: Fight against such of those who have been given the Scripture as believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, and forbid not that which Allah hath forbidden by His messenger, and follow not the Religion of Truth, until they pay the tribute readily, being brought low.


Yusuf Ali: Fight those who believe not in Allah nor the Last Day, nor hold that forbidden which hath been forbidden by Allah and His Messenger, nor acknowledge the religion of Truth, (even if they are) of the People of the Book, until they pay the Jizya with willing submission, and feel themselves subdued.

 

[abandonconflict]

One of the doctors I work with is strong Muslim faith and he says he was taught by the Qua ran that taking a life goes against Allah, he won't even kill a spider (he laughed and said all bets are off for mice though). He also says that there are those that interpret it in such a way they can justify killing non-believers in the same way Christians like the Westboro Church interpret the bible in such a way to do the evil shit they do.

He also said those extremists play on the uneducated and hungry to further that cause.

So yeah, holy books (pick a book any book) give some nutjobs justification for a lot of bad stuff. We can't deny if you cherry pick those books that it says it what it says. Painting the entire religion with the same brush is where people go wrong. I know you are saying that already, so I'm not accusing you of it. It seemed at first you were denying those people exist, but this post tells me you get it.

So you haven't read the book, but you thought that maybe it seemed at first like I didn't get it, when I have actually read it. Because your doctor is Muslim. When did I ever deny that there are extremist Muslims? Who do you think I fought against in Afghanistan and Iraq?

Where people go wrong, is thinking they know what a book says, with out reading the book.

 

[UncleBuck]

He's just doing his damndest to insist that all Muslims are evil. He failed to show that the Quran commands violence, so now he's just insulting Muhammad because he hates Muslim people. Of course, he has a few Muslim friends, but they're "bad Muslims", since they're peaceful.

don't dare call him a 4'11'' bigot though.

 

[desert dude]

One of the doctors I work with is strong Muslim faith and he says he was taught by the Qua ran that taking a life goes against Allah, he won't even kill a spider (he laughed and said all bets are off for mice though). He also says that there are those that interpret it in such a way they can justify killing non-believers in the same way Christians like the Westboro Church interpret the bible in such a way to do the evil shit they do.

He also said those extremists play on the uneducated and hungry to further that cause.

So yeah, holy books (pick a book any book) give some nutjobs justification for a lot of bad stuff. We can't deny if you cherry pick those books that it says it what it says. Painting the entire religion with the same brush is where people go wrong. I know you are saying that already, so I'm not accusing you of it. It seemed at first you were denying those people exist, but this post tells me you get it.

AC, and the other RIU leftie nuts certainly won't extend the same consideration to "Rednecks", "HillBillies", and other ignorant whiteys. They sure go out of their way to defend Muhammad and his illiterate followers, though. I wonder why that is?

 

[UncleBuck]

You're late to this discussion dumb ass.

9:29 refers to a specific defensive battle as I stated earlier in this thread when another dumbass cited it.

Dumb ass.

white supremacist rats don't let facts stand in their way though.

 

[UncleBuck]

...he says he was taught by the Qua ran that taking a life goes against Allah, he won't even kill a spider...So yeah, holy books (pick a book any book) give some nutjobs justification for a lot of bad stuff.

classic two face ginwilly.