Seattle sees fallout from $15 minimum wage, as other cities follow suit

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
You should of included the three richest people in america are democrats , like gates, buffet, ellison. Why are you just picking on the cherry picked conservatives when the dems are leading the pack? Get the story straight or what good is it?
Gates and Ellison, as unlikable as they, are earned their money by starting up a company and adding value. They are the healthy side of capitalism. Others like Jobs also made a lot by creating value. Smaller businesses that grow into larger ones by creating value are good. Your fishing business is probably in the middle ground where you gained when others gave up or were driven out of the fishing business. For myself, I hold no grudge towards anybody that works hard, creates value, plays by the rules -- even if they created a job on paper for your wife so that she can collect social security -- and succeeds.

I listed people that are vulture capitalists without a thought of party affiliation. I listed three of the worst, who are Republican, yes. Buffet and Soros are Democrats yet still belong in the vulture capitalist category and I'm sure there are others. There will always be vultures, it's just that in this system they are on top of the food chain. In nature, they are lower down, where they belong.
 
Last edited:

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
We don't have cable and I stopped watching the news a long time ago.

I do see both sides of the argument. I am open to be ideas and understand that wages have not gone up enough to keep up with inflation.

I guess I don't see how a jump from 9 to 15 wont shock the system. I think 10 would be a good minimum.

Some areas do have a higher cost of living and perhaps those areas should get 15+.

I believe that sometimes in life you have to work hard to achieve the comforts in life. You also have to better yourself so you aren't stuck in a minimum wage job. It may take a couple years, but its possible with budgeting and training.

Minimum wage means to me the minimum that an employer has to pay the least skilled entry worker.
An increase in the minimum wage will go to the people that will spend it on things that they need. This will make your area more prosperous and create more work for general labor and in your husband's field. Demand for his labor will go up and drive his wage up well above the minimum. This kind of virtuous cycle is exactly what this country needs. Less to the vulture capitalists and more to you.

Cable TV sucks anyway. I don't have it either. Good riddance to it.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
You need to get your story straight.

Lawrence Ellison, California, Co-founder of Oracle Corporation – Republicans

Worth: $48 billion

Ellison gave $3 million to the Restore Our Future PAC in 2012, the super PAC supporting Mitt Romney’s presidential campaign. He has given to a mix of GOP and Democratic candidates over the years, but most of his recent donations have gone to Republicans like John Boehner (R-Ohio) and Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.)

Bill Gates, Washington, former CEO Microsoft – Democrats

Worth: $76 billion

The richest man in the country, Gates has given $15,000 to both the Democratic and Republican congressional campaign committees this year.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/in-the-loop/wp/2014/08/05/wealthiest-americans-in-each-state-primarily-support-republicans/
Buck. I don't give a fuck who they donate to. Gates and buffet are leading the pack for being greedy fucking democratic rich people and the left ignores it was my point. I mean Travis.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Gates and Ellison, as unlikable as they are earned their money by starting up a company and adding value. They are the healthy side of capitalism. Others like Jobs also made a lot by creating value. Smaller businesses that grow into larger ones by creating value are good. Your fishing business is probably in the middle ground where you gained when others gave up or were driven out of the fishing business. For myself, I hold no grudge towards anybody that works hard, creates value, plays by the rules -- even if they created a job on paper for your wife so that she can collect social security -- and succeeds.

I listed people that are vulture capitalists without a thought of party affiliation. I listed three of the worst, who are Republican, yes. Buffet and Soros are Democrats yet still belong in the vulture capitalist category and I'm sure there are others. There will always be vultures, it's just that in this system they are on top of the food chain. In nature, they are lower down, where they belong.
Thats your opinion, but lets just include the wealthiest greedy people because they didn't get there by being nice, and if you think they did well you are being narrow minded. imo
 

Grandpapy

Well-Known Member
Consider this, Those that are lobbying for lower wages in our Capital are also building schools, roads, police stations in Asia.
We got a new Walmart, but we lost 2 fire stations here in CC county.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Thats your opinion, but lets just include the wealthiest greedy people because they didn't get there by being nice, and if you think they did well you are being narrow minded. imo
Would you mind explaining how I'm being narrow minded when I say that although I think Ellison and Gates are horrible people, I'm not complaining about how they accumulated wealth? They lived the American dream, started a business and grew it into a world class business. Nonetheless they are jerks and will always be so.
 
Last edited:

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
T
An increase in the minimum wage will go to the people that will spend it on things that they need. This will make your area more prosperous and create more work for general labor and in your husband's field. Demand for his labor will go up and drive his wage up well above the minimum. This kind of virtuous cycle is exactly what this country needs. Less to the vulture capitalists and more to you.

Cable TV sucks anyway. I don't have it either. Good riddance to it.
I will definitely look into the science of wages and economy. Denmark was it?

I hope all my fears are unwarranted. Thanks for being civil. =)
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Thats your opinion, but lets just include the wealthiest greedy people because they didn't get there by being nice, and if you think they did well you are being narrow minded. imo
Oh, I get it, you don't like how I'm picking on Trump. Who's being narrow minded here?

Dude, he inherited fantastic wealth from his father and is a real estate magnate. He's not creating jobs, he made his money by tearing down buildings and putting up new ones by using taxpayer assistance then he collects rent and makes even more money. Some of his most lucrative deals involved no money down and huge public investment. He brags about how he manipulates politicians and the government to increase his wealth. Scum vulture capitalist.
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Would you mind explaining how I'm being narrow minded when I say that although I think Ellison and Gates are horrible people, I'm not complaining about how they accumulated wealth? They lived the American dream, started a business and grew it into a world class business. Nonetheless they are jerks and will always be so.
Here are some law suits bill gates's companies have paid for fucking his way to the top. for starters. I know this is going to be a buzz killer for you. This is no doubt what you are narrow minded about.


Microsoft's lawsuit payouts amount to around $9 billion
Updated Twice the GDP of Cambodia
By Désiré Athow
Thu Jul 14 2005, 15:35

* UPDATE Additional material at the end of this article.
MICROSOFT HAS had a long, a very long history of litigation, court orders, patent infringements and antitrust lawsuits against it since the very beginning of its history. We;ve managed to draw up a partial list of these.

The surprising thing is not only the number of those lawsuits against Microsoft - at one time, it had more than 130 pending - but more importantly, the sheer amount of money it represents.

The Redmond giant has been ordered to pay nearly $9 billion, a figure which is set to rise with some lawsuits still to be ruled on.

This covers everthing from the miniscule $2 million paid to the state of Iowa, as a fine following the 1999 lawsuit against MS for overcharging customers, to the huge $2 billion one paid to the Enemy, Sun Microsystems.

Some notable points that emerged during my research.

1. Many of the lawsuits, especially the federal ones, were settled with Microsoft giving away free vouchers and free software for the educational sector in those states. Some have argued that the 1999 lawsuit was a trojan horse to break the hold of Apple on that market.

2. Microsoft has several times invested in the companies which have sued it. AT&T - where they threw in $5 billion, Apple - $150 million and Immersion - $26 million.

3. Though Microsoft is keen to emphasise the fact that they are not guilty of any wrongdoing in many of the lawsuits, they would prefer to pay rather than anything else. This has lead some observers to speculate that fines has been a way to "oil" the progress of Microsoft. Note also that no one has been imprisoned and that apart from paying out huge amounts of money, Microsoft can carry on its business as usual.

4. The amount of money paid by Microsoft for PR and for the lawsuits by itself is in the region of $500 million during the past 10 years.

5. The monies to be paid are often distributed through vouchers and therefore, the sums below are maximums rather than effectively paid as a sizeable part of those vouchers goes uncollected.

To date, there are 48 lawsuits that have been documented online, 39 of which have had the fines clearly defined and the rest either to be decided or with undisclosed fines. Below is the complete list in alphabetical order. If there is any lawsuit that I missed or any other information or amounts that are incorrect, please do inform me. µ

Alacritech
Undisclosed
Kansas
$32,000,000
AOL
$750,000,000
Maryland
$10,500,000
Apple
$250,000,000
Massachusetts
$34,000,000
Arizona
$104,600,000
Minnesota
$240,000,000
AT&T
Undisclosed
Montana
$12,300,000
Be
$23,250,000
Mythic
Still in court
Bristol
$4,100,000
Nebraska
$22,600,000
Burst
$60,000,000
New Mexico
$3,150,000
California
$1,100,000,000
North Carolina
$89,000,000
Carlos Armando (1)
$8,960,000
North Dakota
$9,000,000
Columbia
$6,200,000
Novell
$536,000,000
Discrimation Suit (2)
Still in court?
Private (5)
$10,500,000
DR DOS/Caldera
$500,000,000
Real
Still in court
Employee fired (3)
$ 9,000,000
Sendo
Undisclosed
Eolas
$521,000,000
South Dakota
$9,330,000
EU
$613,000,000
Daum (4)
$8,600,000
Florida
$202,000,000
SPX
$62,000,000
Forgent
Still in court
Stac
$83,000,000
Gateway
$150,000,000
Sun
$1,950,000,000
Go
Still in court
Perma Te
$96,000,000
IBM
$850,000,000
Tennessee
$64,000,000
Immersion
$35,000,000
Vermont
$9,700,000
Intertrust
$440,000,000
Wordperfect
Still in court
Iowa
$2,000,000
E-data
Still in court
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
T

I will definitely look into the science of wages and economy. Denmark was it?

I hope all my fears are unwarranted. Thanks for being civil. =)
Denmark is an example of a system that does very well by its people with strong unions and a strong safety net for its population. They actually don't have a statutory minimum wage, the minimum wage is negotiated through collective bargaining agreements between unions by industrial sectors. The negotiated minimum wage is $20 an hour. Its a system different from what we have in the US where individual workers have very little bargaining power.
 
Last edited:

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
Here are some law suits bill gates's companies have paid for fucking his way to the top. for starters. I know this is going to be a buzz killer for you. This is no doubt what you are narrow minded about.


Microsoft's lawsuit payouts amount to around $9 billion
Updated Twice the GDP of Cambodia
By Désiré Athow
Thu Jul 14 2005, 15:35

* UPDATE Additional material at the end of this article.
MICROSOFT HAS had a long, a very long history of litigation, court orders, patent infringements and antitrust lawsuits against it since the very beginning of its history. We;ve managed to draw up a partial list of these.

The surprising thing is not only the number of those lawsuits against Microsoft - at one time, it had more than 130 pending - but more importantly, the sheer amount of money it represents.

The Redmond giant has been ordered to pay nearly $9 billion, a figure which is set to rise with some lawsuits still to be ruled on.

This covers everthing from the miniscule $2 million paid to the state of Iowa, as a fine following the 1999 lawsuit against MS for overcharging customers, to the huge $2 billion one paid to the Enemy, Sun Microsystems.

Some notable points that emerged during my research.

1. Many of the lawsuits, especially the federal ones, were settled with Microsoft giving away free vouchers and free software for the educational sector in those states. Some have argued that the 1999 lawsuit was a trojan horse to break the hold of Apple on that market.

2. Microsoft has several times invested in the companies which have sued it. AT&T - where they threw in $5 billion, Apple - $150 million and Immersion - $26 million.

3. Though Microsoft is keen to emphasise the fact that they are not guilty of any wrongdoing in many of the lawsuits, they would prefer to pay rather than anything else. This has lead some observers to speculate that fines has been a way to "oil" the progress of Microsoft. Note also that no one has been imprisoned and that apart from paying out huge amounts of money, Microsoft can carry on its business as usual.

4. The amount of money paid by Microsoft for PR and for the lawsuits by itself is in the region of $500 million during the past 10 years.

5. The monies to be paid are often distributed through vouchers and therefore, the sums below are maximums rather than effectively paid as a sizeable part of those vouchers goes uncollected.

To date, there are 48 lawsuits that have been documented online, 39 of which have had the fines clearly defined and the rest either to be decided or with undisclosed fines. Below is the complete list in alphabetical order. If there is any lawsuit that I missed or any other information or amounts that are incorrect, please do inform me. µ

Alacritech
Undisclosed
Kansas
$32,000,000
AOL
$750,000,000
Maryland
$10,500,000
Apple
$250,000,000
Massachusetts
$34,000,000
Arizona
$104,600,000
Minnesota
$240,000,000
AT&T
Undisclosed
Montana
$12,300,000
Be
$23,250,000
Mythic
Still in court
Bristol
$4,100,000
Nebraska
$22,600,000
Burst
$60,000,000
New Mexico
$3,150,000
California
$1,100,000,000
North Carolina
$89,000,000
Carlos Armando (1)
$8,960,000
North Dakota
$9,000,000
Columbia
$6,200,000
Novell
$536,000,000
Discrimation Suit (2)
Still in court?
Private (5)
$10,500,000
DR DOS/Caldera
$500,000,000
Real
Still in court
Employee fired (3)
$ 9,000,000
Sendo
Undisclosed
Eolas
$521,000,000
South Dakota
$9,330,000
EU
$613,000,000
Daum (4)
$8,600,000
Florida
$202,000,000
SPX
$62,000,000
Forgent
Still in court
Stac
$83,000,000
Gateway
$150,000,000
Sun
$1,950,000,000
Go
Still in court
Perma Te
$96,000,000
IBM
$850,000,000
Tennessee
$64,000,000
Immersion
$35,000,000
Vermont
$9,700,000
Intertrust
$440,000,000
Wordperfect
Still in court
Iowa
$2,000,000
E-data
Still in court
Umm, why do you have to shout?
Yes, Microsoft is a vile company. Gates is vile. Microsoft engaged in monopolistic practices. I don't like Gates. Gates started Microsoft. Microsoft as a company didn't even exist in 1974. Microsoft went from a handful of employees in 1975 to 96,000 direct workers plus 80,000 indirect vendors and temps today. Bill Gates is vile but he's responsible for creating 160,000 good paying jobs. I wouldn't work for him. I'm narrow minded (I guess).
 

god1

Well-Known Member
Sounds to me as if your family is off to a good start and good luck to you and yours for that. Big respect from me to anybody working hard at whatever their occupation.

I don't know where you are getting your economic theory from. Economic theory coming from the television is not to be trusted. You'd do better reading about wages and inflation on Wikipedia than wherever you heard that minimum wage increases drive inflation. Maybe a trip to the library will help.

Think about this: wages adjusted to inflation were flat for about 30 years and for the last 15 years, they have dropped by about 15%.. Forty years of hard work and what do you get? A pay cut! If inflation was strongly linked to wages, especially the wages in the lower income brackets then we'd expect to see it go down eventually. But it has not.

When prices go up without a rise in wages, consumers need to spend more to make ends meet and they (you and I) cut discretionary spending. This cools the economy and slows job growth which is exactly what's happening right now.

Where then is the extra profit made from denying wage increases but continually increasing prices going? It's going into the pockets of those that have control of the economy -- the Koch brothers, and Trump for example. People at that end of the wealth bracket speculate and consolidate, not invest to grow their wealth. Compared to how hard you and your husband work, Trump and his ilk don't work hard enough to earn the kind of income they receive nor do they create new jobs.

Don't expect things to improve by denying wage increases to those in your income bracket and and lower. Things are only going to get worse if that trend continues. Perhaps you might want to consider joining that union and demand more from you and your husband's labor. Its the best thing you could do for this country.

Anybody working for wages is subject to income saturation. It goes with the territory. You think 300 - 500 K working wage guys don't hit the wall? Understand why that is, then the solution becomes clear.

This country needs more folks with the attitude of the Flaming Pie family. With hard work and perseverance they will succeed.

Change the mindset of the people willing to accept minimum wage jobs/skills as status quo and then you've accomplished something.

We don't disagree about the problem, but rather the solution.
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
$20/hour
Due to a strong trade union movement, wages in Denmark are generally higher than in the United States. Negotiated minimum wage is approximately $20/hour. Income tax in Denmark, however, is high by international standards, and ranges from 45% to a high 56%.
 

Uncle Ben

Well-Known Member
An increase in the minimum wage will go to the people that will spend it on things that they need. This will make your area more prosperous and create more work for general labor and in your husband's field. Demand for his labor will go up and drive his wage up well above the minimum. This kind of virtuous cycle is exactly what this country needs. Less to the vulture capitalists and more to you.
.
Bullshit...not in the real world.

1513655_653799021346897_501170280_n.jpg
 

Flaming Pie

Well-Known Member
Cost of Living
Due to a strong trade union movement, wages in Denmark are generally higher than in the United States. Negotiated minimum wage is approximately $20/hour.
Income tax in Denmark, however, is high by international standards, and ranges from 45% to a high 56%.
The flat-rate VAT in Denmark is 25%. Major exemptions from VAT are rents, medicine and newspapers.
The cost of living in Denmark is considerably higher than in the United States. Copenhagen is among the five most expensive cities in the world.
 

Padawanbater2

Well-Known Member
Bullshit...not in the real world.

View attachment 3468983
http://www.wikinvest.com/stock/Wal-Mart_(WMT)/Data/Gross_Profit

Not to mention...

"C. Douglas McMillon, who became the president and CEO of Wal-Mart Stores Inc. of Bentonville on Feb. 1, saw his total compensation skyrocket 168 percent to $25.6 million for the fiscal year that ended Jan. 31 as compared with the previous year."

http://www.arkansasbusiness.com/article/98329/wal-mart-ceo-doug-mcmillon-earned-256-million-last-year

Furthermore...

"The Walton Family Fortune according to Forbes

-Christy Walton and family $35.9 billion
-Jim Walton $34.9 billion
-Alice Walton $33.7 billion
-S. Robson Walton $33.4 billion
-Ann Walton Kroenke $4.8 billion
-Nancy Walton Laurie $4 billion

Total US$174.6 billion"

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Walton_family

"The Walton family, which owns Wal-Mart, controls a fortune equal to the wealth of the bottom 42 percent of Americans combined."

http://gawker.com/the-waltons-are-the-greediest-family-in-the-world-1300311273


If Walmart can't pay their employees a living wage, then why can they increase the pay of their CEO by 168%?
 

nitro harley

Well-Known Member
Umm, why do you have to shout?
Yes, Microsoft is a vile company. Gates is vile. Microsoft engaged in monopolistic practices. I don't like Gates. Gates started Microsoft. Microsoft as a company didn't even exist in 1974. Microsoft went from a handful of employees in 1975 to 96,000 direct workers plus 80,000 indirect vendors and temps today. Bill Gates is vile but he's responsible for creating 160,000 good paying jobs. I wouldn't work for him. I'm narrow minded (I guess).
I thought shouting was all caps? I just made the words bold so it would soften the facts that Trump and Koch are lesser evils or the same evil as rich evil democrats. Lets just judge all evil rich fuckers at the top for what they are instead of cherry picking for politics. And we don't need to go past the top ten list for evil rich fuckers just to keep it simple. Thanks.
 

UncleBuck

Well-Known Member
Groceries are my main concern
would it help sooth your concerns if i was able to show you that prices of staple items in the grocery store go up way slower than the rise in wages does?

a dozen eggs, august 1988: $0.909
a dozen eggs, august 2011: $1.711

+88%

gallon of milk, august 1995: $2.482 (restricted data set, sorry)
gallon of milk, august 2013: $3.448

+39%

bananas, june 1988: $0.501
bananas, june 2012: $0.605

+21%

coffee, march 1988: $2.634
coffee, march 2010: $3.565

+35%

http://data.bls.gov/cgi-bin/surveymost?ap




all of this while the min wage went from $3.35 to $7.25, meaning it more than doubled (+116%).
 
Top