Recommended Flower time?

Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
fridayfishfry said:
You're about to not learn what I already know

I'm going for agriculture and food certificate at a community college and I wonder what kind of corporate political big pharma bull they'll be teaching

I already have a bachelor's.
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Then please explain how removing a build up of salt from a medium magically removes immobile nutrients from plant matter? Please supply credible, scientific supporting links.
Why would they call immobile nutrients immobile if they were mobile?

I also work in the horti industry (own business) and live in a rural state and area. I have never heard the farmers "flushing". Sorry no bachelors of anything here but did semi retire at 40 so ill try to keep up with your more learned self.
 
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Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
cogitech said:
Some say leaching isn't needed if using "organic" nutes. Any opinion on that?
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Leaching is only needed if you have over feed or have a "Hot" soil. It leaches the nutrients out of the soil using copious amounts of water. Full organic growers of cause try to not ever do this as all that goodness in the soil gets washed away.

Id surgiest that very new growers tend to leach due to N tox. After you get a couple of grows under your belt you learn to read the plant better and leaching becomes unnecessary.
 
xtsho

xtsho

Well-Known Member
fridayfishfry said:
Matter of opinion / preference / grower style
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Actually it's not a matter of opinion.
Facts are facts and the fact is that flushing removes nothing from the plant.
Opinions are opinions and not necessarily based in fact. Many people are of the opinion that flushing for a week removes things from a plant. That's an opinion with no facts to back it up. In fact there are facts that disprove the notion of flushing but too many people like to perpetuate myths. I remember when people boiled the roots because it would make all this magical resin flow into the buds.

Different day different myth. Flushing to remove nutrients from a plant is a myth. There is actual science and decades long studies done by very smart people in the field that have proven that flushing is a myth. Those are the facts backed up by actual science and research. Not some urban legend from some guy on an internet forum that's grown a few plants and is just repeating something he heard, or from Jim Bob Big Time Grower on a youtube video bragging about his burnt up plants, or some nutrient company trying to sell you a $35 bottle of flushing nonsense. I use cow manure in my garden but my tomatoes and vegetables don't taste like cow crap. They taste delicious and I don't flush them.
 
Empdude420

Empdude420

Active Member
Lordhooha said:
As do i this will be my third, already have a masters in computer science, bachelors in business.
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I have a computer science degree as well as a BA in Business as well. Took a company from $0 to $5m a year in sales for 17 years straight and sold it when done for millions. But, I still couldn't tell you if you need to flush a plant or not --- so I don't know what you know that I don't know. I've run an international company with a Business Degree as well as written software used in over 5,000 hotels worldwide, and designed software for Expedia and Travelocity. What I'm saying is --- how do you know horticulture with a BA in Business and Computer Science?!?!

Here is what I do know ..... My brother, on the other hand, has multiple fertilizer certifications, a Horticulture degree from Rutgers University with a 3.8GPA and has been growing pot since we were in High School. He also has some really killer weed that when I give it to my friends, they all say the same thing - "My that tastes good".

He says to flush ... and he flushes ... so for me, the Jury has already gone home. FLUSH. He uses Fantastic Finish and lemons (that's what he says - and I'm doing what he says to do).

So with that said - can someone show me a study done so I can review it. Otherwise, it's not a myth. (Not something PRO or CON from any cannabis site - but from a real science journal. I've googled and googled and everything PRO or CON is coming from something that is not something that can be attributed to a real science journal. Everything is from THCFamer, RollitUp, I love Growing MJ, Advanced Nutrients, etc.) -- all of these are either biased or not based on any scientific fact.

I don't believe there have been any double blind studies by non biased science professionals. Unless I am mistaken and cannot find it --- anyone?

I believe there is a HUGE LACK OF EVIDENCE in both directions - so I'll go with what friends say after smoking the weed my brother grows and now I grow. :) (as well as someday take the exact same strain all the way side by side, flushing one and not flushing the other) and seeing what happens in blind review.
 
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drsaltzman

drsaltzman

Well-Known Member
I'm in the camp of you wanna flush .... then flush.
It's not really hurting the plant.
But you're not doing what you think you're doing either.
And you really should be doing the opposite.
All you have to do is starve them a little.
Shouldn't be loading them up with food or water.

Buds are like those heirloom tomatoes in your garden that just don't wanna finish and the days are getting short ... especially up here ... rain (water) is the last thing you want.
 
Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
Empdude420 said:
I have a computer science degree as well as a BA in Business as well. Took a company from $0 to $5m a year in sales for 17 years straight and sold it when done for millions. But, I still couldn't tell you if you need to flush a plant or not --- so I don't know what you know that I don't know. I've run an international company with a Business Degree as well as written software used in over 5,000 hotels worldwide, and designed software for Expedia and Travelocity. What I'm saying is --- how do you know horticulture with a BA in Business and Computer Science?!?!

Here is what I do know ..... My brother, on the other hand, has multiple fertilizer certifications, a Horticulture degree from Rutgers University with a 3.8GPA and has been growing pot since we were in High School. He also has some really killer weed that when I give it to my friends, they all say the same thing - "My that tastes good".

He says to flush ... and he flushes ... so for me, the Jury has already gone home. FLUSH. He uses Fantastic Finish and lemons (that's what he says - and I'm doing what he says to do).

So with that said - can someone show me a study done so I can review it. Otherwise, it's not a myth. (Not something PRO or CON from any cannabis site - but from a real science journal. I've googled and googled and everything PRO or CON is coming from something that is not something that can be attributed to a real science journal. Everything is from THCFamer, RollitUp, I love Growing MJ, Advanced Nutrients, etc.) -- all of these are either biased or not based on any scientific fact.

I don't believe there have been any double blind studies by non biased science professionals. Unless I am mistaken and cannot find it --- anyone?

I believe there is a HUGE LACK OF EVIDENCE in both directions - so I'll go with what friends say after smoking the weed my brother grows and now I grow. :) (as well as someday take the exact same strain all the way side by side, flushing one and not flushing the other) and seeing what happens in blind review.
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Just look at mobile and immobile nutrients. But do as you want stoner science isn’t what I rely on. Oh and I own a farm an there’s no such thing as flushing in agriculture. Tabacco used in high dollar cigars isn’t flushed either just properly dried and cured. But again this argument has been ongoing here for years so you do you man it’s generally pointless to say more.
 
Lordhooha

Lordhooha

Well-Known Member
Empdude420 said:
I have a computer science degree as well as a BA in Business as well. Took a company from $0 to $5m a year in sales for 17 years straight and sold it when done for millions. But, I still couldn't tell you if you need to flush a plant or not --- so I don't know what you know that I don't know. I've run an international company with a Business Degree as well as written software used in over 5,000 hotels worldwide, and designed software for Expedia and Travelocity. What I'm saying is --- how do you know horticulture with a BA in Business and Computer Science?!?!

Here is what I do know ..... My brother, on the other hand, has multiple fertilizer certifications, a Horticulture degree from Rutgers University with a 3.8GPA and has been growing pot since we were in High School. He also has some really killer weed that when I give it to my friends, they all say the same thing - "My that tastes good".

He says to flush ... and he flushes ... so for me, the Jury has already gone home. FLUSH. He uses Fantastic Finish and lemons (that's what he says - and I'm doing what he says to do).

So with that said - can someone show me a study done so I can review it. Otherwise, it's not a myth. (Not something PRO or CON from any cannabis site - but from a real science journal. I've googled and googled and everything PRO or CON is coming from something that is not something that can be attributed to a real science journal. Everything is from THCFamer, RollitUp, I love Growing MJ, Advanced Nutrients, etc.) -- all of these are either biased or not based on any scientific fact.

I don't believe there have been any double blind studies by non biased science professionals. Unless I am mistaken and cannot find it --- anyone?

I believe there is a HUGE LACK OF EVIDENCE in both directions - so I'll go with what friends say after smoking the weed my brother grows and now I grow. :) (as well as someday take the exact same strain all the way side by side, flushing one and not flushing the other) and seeing what happens in blind review.
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Also have you ever noticed the only place you see or hear about flushing if you search the topic is on weed sites and forums? That alone should make you go o_O hmmmmmm
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Empdude420 said:
I have a computer science degree as well as a BA in Business as well. Took a company from $0 to $5m a year in sales for 17 years straight and sold it when done for millions. But, I still couldn't tell you if you need to flush a plant or not --- so I don't know what you know that I don't know. I've run an international company with a Business Degree as well as written software used in over 5,000 hotels worldwide, and designed software for Expedia and Travelocity. What I'm saying is --- how do you know horticulture with a BA in Business and Computer Science?!?!

Here is what I do know ..... My brother, on the other hand, has multiple fertilizer certifications, a Horticulture degree from Rutgers University with a 3.8GPA and has been growing pot since we were in High School. He also has some really killer weed that when I give it to my friends, they all say the same thing - "My that tastes good".

He says to flush ... and he flushes ... so for me, the Jury has already gone home. FLUSH. He uses Fantastic Finish and lemons (that's what he says - and I'm doing what he says to do).

So with that said - can someone show me a study done so I can review it. Otherwise, it's not a myth. (Not something PRO or CON from any cannabis site - but from a real science journal. I've googled and googled and everything PRO or CON is coming from something that is not something that can be attributed to a real science journal. Everything is from THCFamer, RollitUp, I love Growing MJ, Advanced Nutrients, etc.) -- all of these are either biased or not based on any scientific fact.

I don't believe there have been any double blind studies by non biased science professionals. Unless I am mistaken and cannot find it --- anyone?

I believe there is a HUGE LACK OF EVIDENCE in both directions - so I'll go with what friends say after smoking the weed my brother grows and now I grow. :) (as well as someday take rthe exact same strain all the way side by side, flushing one and not flushing the other) and seeing what happens in blind review.
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Pick up a Horticulture text book. Look for Flushing. Find it? Nope.
Don't believe the Horticulture text books? Spend some of your millions and spend 10 min with a Horticulturist or a Research Scientist.



Ive never heard of Fantastic finish. Not saying it doesn't exist but it sounds like a dishwasher tablet.
Lemon Juice is used allot in bud washing and dishwashing liquids.. I'm guessing he grows outside or has powdery mildew/mould problems. Not worth bud washing otherwise.
If you want a lemon flavour, Aussie Blue hash oil is very lemony.

Now if you mean Flawless finish by Advanced Nutrients then you could save yourself allot of money and water with Epsom salts instead...Seems to be just Mag to me going by this. https://growdiaries.com/nutrients/advanced-nutrients/flawless-finish. Don't most of us use Mag in flower either from Cal/Mag or preferably Epsom salt or another Magnesium Sulphate additive?
Why would your Horticulturist brother be using AN for instead of a powder??

Is adding chemicals to the growing medium flushing or leaching? Don't we feed chemicals/ salts?

Flawless finish.png
 
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Empdude420

Empdude420

Active Member
To correct above, my brother ONLY uses Flawless Finish from AN as well as Bud Candy - he doesn't use any other AN nutes, he just has a bunch of bags with a bunch of numbers written on it he uses such as 21-0-0 (it's white), or 5-10-15 with minors (bright blue), or 0-0-7 (I think bat guamo), and CAS04. He also uses things like Catalyst Earth Juice, Sugaree, Fox Farm Bloom, just a bottle marked Kelp. I've also seen him (and been told by him) to use Alaska Fish Fertilizer and I did.

I use all AN stuff because I used to be a programmer and like to follow written charts and directions rather than him just texting me "Sprinkle some of that 21-0-0 on it today". I kinda ignore him, unless I really need help and then I do what he says. (We are identical twins and I don't like copying him too much, and want to have my own weed to some extent. But, sometimes I listen to what he says)
 
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Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Empdude420 said:
To correct above, my brother ONLY uses Flawless Finish from AN as well as Bud Candy - he doesn't use any other AN nutes, he just has a bunch of bags with a bunch of numbers written on it he uses such as 21-0-0 (it's white), or 5-10-15 with minors (bright blue), or 0-0-7 (I think bat guamo), and CAS04. He also uses things like Catalyst Earth Juice, Sugaree, Fox Farm Bloom, just a bottle marked Kelp. I've also seen him (and been told by him) to use Alaska Fish Fertilizer and I did.

I use all AN stuff because I used to be a programmer and like to follow written charts and directions rather than him just texting me "Sprinkle some of that 21-0-0 on it today". I kinda ignore him, unless I really need help and then I do what he says. (We are identical twins and I don't like copying him too much, and want to have my own weed to some extent. But, sometimes I listen to what he says)
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You and your "Horticulturist" brother can do what ever you like. Every bottled nute company has a feed chart....Its usually high though. That's normal the more you use the more you need. Sales 101.
.
I'm just pointing out the major flaw in your "flushing" argument with the product you stated- Flawless finish. Your adding a chemical, Magnesium Sulphate, that is used to help mature buds. (Cal Mag is best for veg and Mag Sulphate for mid to late flower) Its a mobile nutrient and is available really, really, cheap from any supermarket as Epsom salts.
Its not some magical Harry Potter wand that makes immobile nutrients vanish.

Your a classic example of someone telling people that "flushing" works, believing the Bro science over Horticultural science. When people believe the bro science it gets repeated and repeated. The trouble with that of cause is that peoples opinions are hard to change. The word itself "flushing" makes things confusing as well as it seems to have two or more (?) meanings.
Horticulture already has words. Leaching and watering.
 
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K

KryptoBud

Well-Known Member
Empdude420 said:
I have a computer science degree as well as a BA in Business as well. Took a company from $0 to $5m a year in sales for 17 years straight and sold it when done for millions. But, I still couldn't tell you if you need to flush a plant or not --- so I don't know what you know that I don't know. I've run an international company with a Business Degree as well as written software used in over 5,000 hotels worldwide, and designed software for Expedia and Travelocity. What I'm saying is --- how do you know horticulture with a BA in Business and Computer Science?!?!

Here is what I do know ..... My brother, on the other hand, has multiple fertilizer certifications, a Horticulture degree from Rutgers University with a 3.8GPA and has been growing pot since we were in High School. He also has some really killer weed that when I give it to my friends, they all say the same thing - "My that tastes good".

He says to flush ... and he flushes ... so for me, the Jury has already gone home. FLUSH. He uses Fantastic Finish and lemons (that's what he says - and I'm doing what he says to do).

So with that said - can someone show me a study done so I can review it. Otherwise, it's not a myth. (Not something PRO or CON from any cannabis site - but from a real science journal. I've googled and googled and everything PRO or CON is coming from something that is not something that can be attributed to a real science journal. Everything is from THCFamer, RollitUp, I love Growing MJ, Advanced Nutrients, etc.) -- all of these are either biased or not based on any scientific fact.

I don't believe there have been any double blind studies by non biased science professionals. Unless I am mistaken and cannot find it --- anyone?

I believe there is a HUGE LACK OF EVIDENCE in both directions - so I'll go with what friends say after smoking the weed my brother grows and now I grow. :) (as well as someday take the exact same strain all the way side by side, flushing one and not flushing the other) and seeing what happens in blind review.
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I think compost is pretty good example of plant matter containing mineral elements, why else would it be done?
People being vegetarian and living perfectly healthy is another example.
or the largest animals walking the planet being vegetarian. I'd bet it takes a lot of energy to grow elephants, rhinos, and hippos. Even meat eaters have to eat animals that eat plants.
If all you needed to do was water for a week to remove all nutritional value life would be very different if it existed at all.
Plants would be deficient every time it rained if minerals just washed away like that. Look at a place like hawaii. I've never been,but in pics the plant life doesn't seem to be suffering considering its the rainiest state in the usa. Turns out minerals can't even be washed from the soil all that easily either. CEC takes care of that. The lady in the video has a bunch more that cover most if not all plant processes.

http://www.soilquality.org.au/factsheets/cation-exchange-capacity

http://www.spectrumanalytic.com/support/library/ff/Plant_Nutrients_in_Municipal_Leaves.htm

 
Empdude420

Empdude420

Active Member
OK - so I'm just asking. So you skip an entire "flush" week, or you only use regular water, or what do you do your last week?

And can you explain the Epsom salt regimen please?

ie: WHEN it's done, how much, and how it is applied?
 
Lucky Luke

Lucky Luke

Well-Known Member
Empdude420 said:
OK - so I'm just asking. So you skip an entire "flush" week, or you only use regular water, or what do you do your last week?

And can you explain the Epsom salt regimen please?

ie: WHEN it's done, how much, and how it is applied?
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When you say "flush", what context are you using it in? If Leaching then id hope not. I'm in soil so something must of gone drastically wrong fast to be leaching at the end of a grow. If you mean do I water only? Then yes sometimes, if there looking good and have slowed right down on their feeding. Sometimes im feeding at 1/4 to 1/2 strengths..depends on what I think the plant needs.
Lots of people try to water only the last week as it saves $ on nutrients .Last week others will be using Mag sulphate to help mature the buds. Just like lots of soil growers don't feed every watering the majority of the grow. They probably do though when the plants starting to put the weight on. I tend to use pk13/14 just before the plants are going to start stacking.

Last week? Depends on the plants and what they are doing and what I think they may need. Q. if you have never grown that cut before how do you know your in the last week?

Lots and lots of info on using Epsom salts, just do a search. But this is a start https://www.cannabis.info/en/blog/using-epsom-salts-garden.
 
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fridayfishfry

fridayfishfry

Well-Known Member
I treat people who flush in the same way I treat the globetards.

Because... you don't need to flush a vegetable or fruit so you don't need to flush a flower.

They all metabolize the same way! Learn horticulture.. you globetard!
 
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