Well, I'm really, really bummed to see two guys whose posts I like beating each other over the heads with caveman clubs. CUT IT OUT!
Bubble is right--this not socialism. But then I think Brutal said this is not socialism either, just consumerism.
Both of you are right, I think.
I will never back down: the best way for us to ensure that most of us get whatever resources we need in order to live our lives is to keep going with capitalism, with elements of socialism tossed in to ease the weak spots on our metaphorical bridge. If we allow capitalism to run its course, we WILL consumer ourselves (Yes, I've read Marx, and I do understand it; in fact, I was had planned on doing a long paper in university on the rhetoric of Das Kapital--it is extremely well written and loaded with logic, which does make it something to contend with. NO! I'm not saying "Let's be communisists." I'm saying it's very well done, very persuasive, with a lot of truth in it.)
Whatever the case, if we do away with all social programs, sure, our taxes might go down (but probably not, what with the gd pork spending going on in DC--they'll find something else to blow it on, like teenage girls at the mall). But even if we spend less, much less, or nothing at all on social programs, we will ALL pay the price.
You've all heard that term Social Darwinism, right? Well, if we do away with all the social programs, we will unleash Social Darwinism. So what would happen then? Unlike plants, dodo birds, dinosaurs, and so on, that simply became extinct, those who would perish under Social Darwinism will NOT go out without letting the "rest" us know how angry they are. And I'll bang my drum some more: if there's enough anger, there will be hellacious violence. Those on the lower rungs our our socioeconomic scales will not allow themselves to become extinct without inflicting horrible suffering on the rest of us. How anyone cannot see this is beyond me.
Regarding Brutal's experience with foreign languages in high school? Oh, you may think it did you no good to study another language, but the facts are not in yoru corner. Learning/studying any other language forces you, just FORCES you, to learn your own language better. That's a fact, not an opinion. So while you may not be able to chatter with the local Mexicans, you do know your own language better due to your study of Spanish, Ditto for the time and effort you spent studying Russian. Do you not recall being puzzled by the prepositions, the positions of subjects and predicates while studying those languages?
And once you know your own language better, the better able you are to reason, to use logic and rhetoric (rhetoric in the Aristotelian sense, not the way we toss that word around today). If you know your own language very, very well, you're able to think and reason more clearly. So no, your time was not wasted studying those languages. It exercised your brain, made it grow (yes, that is scientific fact), and left you with more than you realize.
Brutal, you also wrote that you don't see any subcultures in this country, except for one (I don't recall at the moment which one you named). No, wrong! Where are black Americans in your discussion of subcultures? That's a huge subculture. We DO need to understand black culture way, way better than we do. How come? Out of the goodness of our hearts? (Well, for me, that's true, but I won't shove that down anyone else's throats, except for my children). No, we need to understand their unique culture, their values, their way of life, their family structures, and so on, so that we can better understand our fellow citizens; and since blacks are still taking so much of the blame for all that is wrong with our country, it's a really great idea to try to learn their culture.
Google "GULLAH language culture low country south carolina georgia" and see if you can find info about how terribly these descendants of slaves were treated by the so-called upstanding members of society. IT's a fascinating story. These people HAVE been robbed, and to a much, much larger degree than you are and have been, paying your $16K in taxes. They were robbed of integrity, their children treated like idiots, placed in the "stupid" classes at school .. . when, had anyone been astute enough to see it (there were some who did, but were swiftly punished for trying to communicate their knowledge), it would have been glaringly obvious: this is an authentic sub culture, with its own language, right here on American soil.
Ignore them, and any of the other subcultures here on American soil, and yeah, we'll all pay the cost.
Re environmentalism being like a religion. I've heard that before. Tell me why. I give a damn about this topic because I DO NOT WANT TO EAT POISON FISH, I do not want my children poisoned, I do not like the idea of swimming in waters contaminated with hog waste that spurs the growth of dino flaggelates that can attack my immune system, etc, etc, etc. Yeah, I'm pissed about the corporate hog shit winding up in MY rivers, streams and seas. Is that religion? I guess you could force it into that box, but I see it more as being plain pragmatic. I don't like hog shit. Do you?
Tips? Tigs? So very glad you like my new signature, lol. I like your avatars, but I do hope that those pics are not really you . . . this site being what it is, you know? Go to bed, Tipsgnob (did I get it finally?). I'll make you a deal: you go to bed and I'll shut up.
And Bubble Brain? I'm so glad you like my supple brain. God knows it's saturated with a lot of shit from plastics and hog shit, but it's MY brain, damn it, and I'm glad you appreciate it! I like your bubbles! So bubbly, effervescent!
More on the education stuff later, Brutal. I'm going to bed.
Night everyone.
Just noticed Bubble is from the Big Apple. You rock, man. And how I wish I was there this weekend, walking around in the city, watching all the shenanigans. NYC is the best. Or wait. Are you one of those who live in the Fish Kill regions? Catskill? All that? WTF is up with those names for towns? Lake George? That is one beautiful place. Same for all the stuff out on the end of Long Island . . . although the super rich have ruined it and made it like LA, just in a beautiful locale. Oh, how I love NY.
Learn something new every day...
Such as about the Gullah Geechee. Interesting stuff, and rather disturbing, because it illustrates a lack of respect for the property rights of others.
Even I acknowledge the need to have hard limits to what companies, individuals and corporations are allowed to do.
As far as the history of the south. Yes, it's absolutely disgusting what some people will do to others.
Grr... I don't know how to say what I want to say, or rather how to connect what I want to say to this, because it will sound like I'm trying to argue for and against it.
Here it goes. Yes, what was done to the Gullah Geechee was digusting and wrong, and perhaps you are right about the need to understand sub-cultures.
As far as languages. No, I suspect that my usage and understanding of English didn't improve because of my study of foreign languages. I still do a horrible job of constructing run on sentences, and sentence fragments and despite knowing this I can not excersize the discipline that would be necessary to correct the problem.
Though I think you are probably right about the need to understand sub-cultures. I'm not going to bother trying to argue that I'm not wrong about that. I've learned that sometimes its easier to stop ramming your head against a brick wall.
As far as Socialism/Communism/Environmentalism.
Yes, they serve some good, but even then there are balances that must be reached that ensure that everyone can enjoy our natural resources. For me that means being able to go rock collecting, and not having to worry about Mercury contamination of our land and water, and of my personal dwelling.
There are limits to what is good, and what is just outright idiotic. Amongst those are the banning of DDT (which was shown not to be an eggshell thinner, toxic, nor cancerous) and the banning of which has caused an estimated 30 - 50 Million Deaths.
Another is the usage of CFLs which contain Mercury. It is all good and well to desire efficiency, and lower electricity consumption, but when it is taken to extremes that ultimately do more harm than good, and cause more problems or greater problems then the ones they solve then the line is being crossed.
Blind adherence to any thing with out examining the complete consequence can only be called religion. Or acting on the faith of one's "righteousness".
I also mentioned the my desire to go rock collecting. It seems asinine to me that I am banned from visiting a state park and collecting minerals and gemstones for my own sake, and amusement.
Stupidity is stupidity, regardless of what form it takes, and what "goals" it pretends to have or desire.
As far as Socialism. Once again it is something that is running into a brick wall of its own creation where it fails to do what it is supposedly setting out to do, and then attempts to convince people that it needs yet more funding to fail even more spectacularly.
There is a vast difference between asking people to voluntarily help others, and forcing them to do so against their will, and then having the audacity to ask them to do yet more.
Too often people state that I should feel obligated to pay taxes, but they fail to account for the fact that based on the goals and premises of the social programs they push those programs are complete and total failures. Welfare? Medicaid? Medicare? Social Security? CRA? All of these programs have failed to do what they were positioned as doing.
Welfare. Welfare is a sick pathetic joke perpetuated upon the left by government. The only people benefiting from the billions dumped into welfare are the bureaucrats it provides employment for. I read somewhere that for every 80K dumped into Welfare only 16K filters down.
Medicaid/Medicare. The goal behind these programs was to help provide healthcare for the poor and those that need it. Instead due to the fact that the government failed to adequately address rising demand needing rising supply we have a chronic shortage of Health Care Professionals. We also have healthcare professionals who are so sick of trying to deal with a government bureaucracy that they no longer voluntarily see Medicaid/Medicare Patients. Yet there are continuously attempts to expand coverage to more people with out increasing supply. It's economics 101 in that to maintain steady prices supply must rise with demand.
The people that support these programs are now blaming people who don't have health insurance for increasing healthcare expenses, when the underlying flaw is the system itself. Actually, arguably the underlying flaw could be viewed as the same failure to adopt to economic realities in education.
Because of the government's interference in the markets the Middle Class is being priced out of Medical Care.
Education - Same deal. Free Lunches create artificial scarcity for those that do not benefit from those free lunches. Which leads to the Middle Class being priced out of higher education.
Social Security - Ah, my favorite collosal lie. This one is easy to point at as being retarded, and fraudulent. This program is nothing more than the government's favorite piggy bank. What's more ironic is despite all this talk of a "lock box" the damn thing is still being raided by the government and being given IOUs. I'm still confused as to how it is possible for the government to owe itself money, but maybe I ought to try that on my taxes, and state that I owe myself 300,000 for an imaginary loan I gave myself on my parent's house and write off the interest payments on this imaginary loan. After all, I would just be following the government's example.
No, I think the best alternative to this program is to privatize it, and get it away from the government, which has illustrated that it can not be trusted.
This is the only logical conclusion that can be drawn from the fact that all too often the very people this was supposed to provide for are stuck working after retirement, and that the people that are supposedly going to be helped in the future are being told that it's going to go bankrupt.
Community Re-Investment Act - In a desire to provide "Affordable" housing the government mandated that banks provide sub prime loans in the 1970s. Then in 1994 this legislation was strengthened. This lead to the housing crisis which is at the root of the current economic malaise.
Now, we have idiotic politicians talking about the need to stabilize housing prices. Once again due to the stupidity of government we see another segment where the middle class is getting shafted, and priced out of the market.
Socialism is all good and well, but there are limits to what should be done. There is a method to the operation of the markets, and there is a reason why Capitalism is viewed as the most equitable system.
It provides for those that will work for what they want, and provides motivation for people to work towards advancing themselves through the acquirement of additional skills and knowledge so that they can get better jobs to purchase nicer things.
"Inequality of Property will exist as long as Liberty Exists."
Though perhaps a more fervent argument against Socialism is that under its auspices the Left, which continuously states that EVERYONE must contribute to society, some people (mostly government employees, and government contractors) are not contributing to society but are robbing it blind. I'm not going to say that this can't happen amongst the private sector, but the amounts of money that could be scammed would be much smaller, because there would be much more oversight by the interested parties.
The failure of government is the failure of Socialism, because it is under Socialism that the government has become bloated, inefficient and wasteful.
Socialists pressed for the Income Tax, which can be seen as something that directly enabled government to reach the behemoth size it has reached.
33% Taxes? Do you people truly hate your fellow man so much that you must punish him by forcing him into slavery?
But that's not the worst part. The worst part is when the effective tax rates hit 50%. This easily occurs when people are making as little as 100K a year. Federal Income Tax, Federal OASDI, Medicaid/Medicare, Employer OASDI, State Income Tax, Municipal Income Tax, County Income Tax, Property Tax (State, Local, Municipal, School District), Self-Employment Tax, Death Tax, so and so forth, and on and on and on and on... and on.
And you act surprised when people like me express my hatred of you, and refuse to even consider your ideology.
It's because your ideology doesn't work the way you are implementing it.
It is because your ideology is sick, and immoral.
It is because your ideology yammers on and on and on about empowering the impoverished, but fails to accomplish it in such a way that it does not leave everyone impoverished.
$16K in taxes, 1/3rd of my income, 1/3rd of my working life wasted paying for your failed social experiments, and yet (I'm sorry Leilani) some people think I should feel grateful that I'm not being stripped of more.
You talk about empowerment, and then fail to actually realize that you are like a dog that is chasing its tail, and never being able to catch it.
Mandatory Taxation, Mandatory "Contributions" to Society do not accomplish anything but creating hatred, contempt, disgust and anger. Of course, you the turn around and say that I have no right to be angry, or disgusted. I should be grateful that I can help my fellow man.
Fellow man, hah, perhaps I should save you the effort of pretending to be blind to the flaws in your system of mandatory contribution, and just start saying, yes master, may I bend over further for you master, may I kiss your ass masters. Would you like me to give you all rim jobs?
You talk about empowerment and then strip people of their rights. The only people benefitting from your "empowerment" are bureaucrats, and what's so damn fucking sad, is that you people don't see it.
No, you insist on more and more taxes, more and more spending, more and more social programs.
It's absurd. Your system has been hijacked by the very elite that you hate, and you are blind to it. You act like maybe if we force people to sacrifice more, we will some how achieve a perfect society. Your "perfect" society is unattainable. Do none of you actually understand psychology, and live in reality?
Do none of you actually study history?
USSR - Failed
North Korea - Poor and backwards.
China - Socialist Capitalism (The Factory Floor of the World) - Failure for Socialism, if Socialism worked China wouldn't have resorted to Capitalism.
Vietnam - Socialist Capitalism (Another failure of Socialism)
The list goes on, and on, and on.
Your Ideology doesn't work, and will never work, because people will never be "perfect".
And you can not make people perfect... actually I supposed you can, but I shudder to think about the boringness and sameness of a society that consists of a bunch of people that were brainwashed into an existence where they deny their very individuality.
No, Society is comprised of Individuals, thus in order to ensure the proper functioning of Society you must Empower All Individuals. Not just some individuals, not just select groups of individuals, ALL INDIVIDUALS.
Which means Socialism or (I think the latest term for it ) a Resource Based Society.
Great, shoot all the knowledge workers now! We don't produce resources, we produce services. Thus under your resource based economy we are going to starve to death.
All you socialists, I got a wonderful Russian phrase for you, Yob tvoyu maht.
I don't think I've heard that in 7 years. Ever since I became an adult.
to my bed.
of a typo!