War

[Lucky Luke]

Who had that land first? Did they fight over it before in A bloody war?

its historically been Russian territory. Ukraine broke away and became a separate country. Right now two states of Ukraine has just succeeded from Ukraine to create their own countries or independant states.these two brake away states have been fighting a war against Ukraine for some time.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

How did Biden convince Putin to invade Ukraine so he could get a boost in his poll numbers? That is the stupid point you’re trying to make, isn’t it?

He didn't, but I figure he's been putting heat on Vlad and this is a reaction to that heat, I also believe that the only way America can get enough sanctions on Russia to have an effect, is if Vlad does something stupid, which he did. Finland and even Sweden are interested in joining NATO now FFS! The facts on the ground there have not changed materially, they controlled those section of the Ukraine already anyway through proxies, now they moved troops in and are menacing the entire Ukraine and from Belorussia too. If Ukraine goes so does the black sea and Belorussia is surrounded by the west on three sides. If he loses those the Crimea and those Ukrainians provinces it opens up the sea of Azov to international waters and puts everybody closer to the stans in the region.

The danger Putin faces is not military but economic, when Russians see how well those who went with the west are doing compared to themselves they will be most unhappy. Essentially Vlad has the same problem the old soviet union faced. He's been having trouble in his empire of vassal states and must hold them by force now by deploying troops. Modern empires are economic, not military, Vlad has yet to learn that lesson.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Let me play devils advocate:
ahh but Russia is part of the UN. Therefore fair elections are not a part of the Un charter. Wouldn't it be prudent to use Russian troops who speak the language and know the customs rather than Indian or Australian or other UN troops? Like they happen to be just there..Playing peace keeper.

No an invading army won't do for a peace keeping force, it must be under the control of the UN. As for the deal with the devil that was made during WW2, I think that's over. We need to face the fact that totalitarian regimes are the enemies of humanity and democracies, full stop. The days of tolerating such things should be over, even if they are essentially nuked up mafia dons.

 

[Dr.Amber Trichome]

its historically been Russian territory. Ukraine broke away and became a separate country or State. Right now two states of Ukraine has just succeeded from Ukraine.to create their own countries or independant states.

So Putin see them as weak and vulnerable and wants to control them. The people of those independent states didn’t see this coming? How ridiculous.

 

[Lucky Luke]

He didn't, but I figure he's been putting heat on Vlad and this is a reaction to that heat, I also believe that the only way America can get enough sanctions on Russia to have an effect, is if Vlad does something stupid, which he did. Finland and even Sweden are interested in joining NATO now FFS! The facts on the ground there have not changed materially, they controlled those section of the Ukraine already anyway through proxies, now they moved troops in and are menacing the entire Ukraine and from Belorussia too. If Ukraine goes so does the black sea and Belorussia is surrounded by the west on three sides. If he loses those the Crimea and those Ukrainians provinces it opens up the sea of Azov to international waters and puts everybody closer to the stans in the region.

The danger Putin faces is not military but economic, when Russians see how well those who went with the west are doing compared to themselves they will be most unhappy. Essentially Vlad has the same problem the old soviet union faced. He's been having trouble in his empire of vassal states and must hold them by force now by deploying troops. Modern empires are economic, not military, Vlad has yet to learn that lesson.

.

Apart from your first sentence i agree. I said something similar pages and pages ago.

Putin cannot let Nato so close or let other Russian states see how easy it could be to leave and become part of western Europe

 

[Lucky Luke]

No an invading army won't do for a peace keeping force, it must be under the control of the UN. As for the deal with the devil that was made during WW2, I think that's over. We need to face the fact that totalitarian regimes are the enemies of humanity and democracies, full stop. The days of tolerating such things should be over, even if they are essentially nuked up mafia dons.

By David Child and Ramy Allahoum
Published On 21 Feb 202221 Feb 2022
|
Updated:
2 hours ago
Vladimir Putin has ordered Russian troops to “maintain peace” in two breakaway regions in eastern Ukraine, hours after the Russian president recognised Donetsk and Luhansk as independent entities.

 

[Lucky Luke]

'Risk of conflict is real': Putin orders Russian forces to 'maintain peace' in Ukraine's two breakaway regions

President Vladimir Putin orders his Defence Ministry to dispatch Russian forces to "maintain peace" in eastern Ukraine's two breakaway regions, the Donetsk and Luhansk People's Republics, after he said Moscow would recognise their independence.

www.abc.net.au

 

[Lucky Luke]

So Putin see them as weak and vulnerable and wants to control them. The people of those independent states didn’t see this coming? How ridiculous.

that's one way to look at it or the two breakaway states thought the world wide attention on the area made it a great time to announce their intention to break away from Ukraine.

 

[injinji]

The Finns are an absolute terror when holding a bottle or sword. When they’re holding both, a two-step procedure recommends itself.
1) run
2) hide

No blade involved, but Kimi cuts through any crowd.

 

[injinji]

So Putin see them as weak and vulnerable and wants to control them. The people of those independent states didn’t see this coming? How ridiculous.

They have only been "independent" states since Russia invaded Ukraine in 2014 and pried them away. Back in the USSR days, lots of Russians immigrated there, and it's these areas with large Russian speaking population that have been fighting (with help from Russia) trying to break away from Ukraine.

 

[Lucky Luke]

As I’m sure your all aware, Kiev was the capital of Russia for centuries.
I’m just a bit sick of yet more western cultural imperialism dressed up as ‘defending freedom’
The west defends freedom, in the case of the USA, with 40 odd military bases on foreign soil.
And to have the temerity to accuse ANYONE of ‘false flag operations’ is hilarious.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I think Vlad is an excellent spy, a real master, ran the POTUS of America, would have probably nuked the place if he didn't have so much money invested in the western economy! However when he is drawn out onto the field of battle it might be another matter. As long as he can hide in the shadows he does quite well, let's see how he does in the daylight? He knows what's coming and for a spell he was gonna "retire", he should consider that plan again, only actually retire and not play from the sidelines. I figure Vlad is getting set up for a pounding of epic proportions in the coming months, he may very well go for the rest of the Ukraine, he probably won't have much to lose soon.

If people don't think the American intelligence community doesn't have a monstrous hard on for Vlad they are naïve! WTF do you think these people were doing for the past 5 years while under Trump's thumb? Joe was presented with a menu of options, none of them good for Vlad, you don't fuck over America like that and get away with it, no way, no how, retribution is coming count on it.

 

[Crumpetlicker]

We need to face the fact that totalitarian regimes are the enemies of humanity and democracies, full stop.

Yes, but any country that only has two possible outcomes at an election is walking perilously close to totalitarianism as well.
Political 'two up' is a 50/50 as to whether you get a Republican dictator or a Democratic one.
Is that real choice or just the perception of choice?
Any country that just got done electing a man like Donald Trump to office has foregone the right to tell anybody else what to do.
He and his family should be locked up somewhere where nobody will ever find them, ever again.
Be worthwhile putting the extreme right militia in there with them.
Have a real life squid game.

 

[smokinrav]

Let me play devils advocate:
ahh but Russia is part of the UN. Therefore fair elections are not a part of the Un charter. Wouldn't it be prudent to use Russian troops who speak the language and know the customs rather than Indian or Australian or other UN troops? Like they happen to be just there..Playing peace keeper.

Have you heard of trustworthiness? Nothing you offer has that. Troll.

 

[Lucky Luke]

Putin is a cunt, and his dream is the return of Russia’s borders to something as close to the old Soviet Union as possible.
That’s never going to happen, places like Georgia, Albania and so are are far too ethnically and culturally removed anyway, plus they’ll tell him to fuck off.
Ukraine is a lot less easily defined. For one thing, it’s name translates as ‘The Edge’, and it’s ethnically very Russian.
On another note, have you seen who is actually running the place?
Look ‘em up.
I fear we’re on the wrong side yet again.

 

[Fogdog]

Putin has just invaded Ukraine

minor incursion

 

[Lucky Luke]

Have you heard of trustworthiness? Nothing you offer has that. Troll.

as i said. I was playing devils advocate.

Do you really need to try to insult someone who is not insulting anybody?

 

[Fogdog]

Yes, but any country that only has two possible outcomes at an election is walking perilously close to totalitarianism as well.
Political 'two up' is a 50/50 as to whether you get a Republican dictator or a Democratic one.
Is that real choice or just the perception of choice?
Any country that just got done electing a man like Donald Trump to office has foregone the right to tell anybody else what to do.
He and his family should be locked up somewhere where nobody will ever find them, ever again.
Be worthwhile putting the extreme right militia in there with them.
Have a real life squid game.

'yeah but'

go to hell with that false equivalence

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Yes, but any country that only has two possible outcomes at an election is walking perilously close to totalitarianism as well.
Political 'two up' is a 50/50 as to whether you get a Republican dictator or a Democratic one.
Is that real choice or just the perception of choice?
Any country that just got done electing a man like Donald Trump to office has foregone the right to tell anybody else what to do.
He and his family should be locked up somewhere where nobody will ever find them, ever again.
Be worthwhile putting the extreme right militia in there with them.
Have a real life squid game.

America has it's issues, don't we all? However while it still is a liberal democracy there is hope for improvement, once that is lost there can be no improvement without violence. Right now the government is democratic and responsible, but at this point in history America is only one election away from losing it's democracy and that is becoming more apparent every day. Liberal democracies become more just and inclusive over time, they have the means to evolve and do.

We had better hope America makes it through this rough patch, cause if they lose their democracy genocide will follow and will make Nazi Germany look like amateur hour.

 

[Crumpetlicker]

America has it's issues, don't we all? However while it still is a liberal democracy there is hope for improvement, once that is lost there can be no improvement without violence. Right now the government is democratic and responsible, but at this point in history America is only one election away from losing it's democracy and that is becoming more apparent every day. Liberal democracies become more just and inclusive over time, they have the means to evolve and do.

We had better hope America makes it through this rough patch, cause if they lose their democracy genocide will follow and will make Nazi Germany look like amateur hour.

Well said