War

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
  1. We do not want war.
  2. The opposite party alone is guilty of war.
  3. The enemy is inherently evil and resembles the devil.
  4. We defend a noble cause, not our own interests.
  5. The enemy commits atrocities on purpose; our mishaps are involuntary.
  6. The enemy uses forbidden weapons.
  7. We suffer small losses, those of the enemy are enormous.
  8. Recognized artists and intellectuals back our cause.
  9. Our cause is sacred.
  10. All who doubt our propaganda are traitors.
so that's putin's last speech?...did he sign a copy of it for you? did you get him to sign it "Puti Pants"?...
 

CunningCanuk

Well-Known Member
it's about the number of people living in the states that don't sanction, or whose leaders don't codemn... these markets will stay free for the Russian trades & exports... it was ment about sanctions, not personal condemnation
Fine, but as I read it, you implied personal condemnation.
 

Sativied

Well-Known Member
This sentence: "The Europeans, unfortunately, have fecklessly allowed themselves to become highly dependent on imports of Russian natural gas. "

[…]

Do other people think that Europe was not being feckless when they developed trade with Russia by sourcing their energy from them?
Not even the Russians can deny what you’re saying in your question. It’s feckless to do any trade with Russia.

The sentence you quoted however is a misrepresentation of reality. Spain. Portugal, Belgium, Switzerland, Ireland, Malta, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, and a few others don’t import much or any gas from Russia, but certainly aren’t dependent on it. France, a relatively large importer, is a good example of how sensational media portray the dependence. France’s energy supply is over 70% fulfilled by their nuclear reactors, 20% renewables, less than 9% fossile. The latter includes gas, oil, and coal. Articles with maps showing gas dependence show France‘s gas consumption relies for 30% on Russia. What it doesn’t show it translates to less than 2% of France’s total energy demand.

Five of the largest importers/consumers of Russian gas in Europe are Germany, Italy, Ukraine, Belarus and Turkey. Yes, in some media, Turkey is a part of ‘Europe’ when the reliance of ‘EU‘ on Russian gas is covered.

The manner in which countries depend on it differs a lot too. Some need it for certain industries, some for most of their power plants, and many for heating and cooking. The latter are in some countries including NL (~15% of gas russian) a priority. That is, in case of shortage, the largest companies are cut off first, then medium and small, then private consumers. This means in case Russia stops sending gas, some businesses might go either green or bankrupt, economy will take a hit, but nothing near a qualification as “highly dependent“. Within the EU, “highly dependent” applies to Germany, Italy, and several countries in the east, as in former east bloc countries where till very recently the majority had a positive opinion on Russia. The baltic states, Hungary, Bulgaria, and a few others in the east get 50 to over 90% of gas from Russia.

The high dependence implies strong leverage, which makes it an even worse misrepresentation. It could have been used as leverage over those two fake states (I refuse to register the names in my brain) but given the current situation…

Some German government dude said they’ll end Russiand dependence in just a few years. Dutch expert says that’s not being truthful, it would take an energy transition of 20-30 years. Germany is phasing out nuclear power plants because Fukushima, other east european countries don’t want it because of Chernobyl. Next week the EU will present a new energy plan to reduce reliance on Russia. If Russia shuts down the pipes, so be it, but if they don’t, well, it’s starting to look like those who depend on Russian gas a lot should start looking for alternatives very fast.

It blows our neighbor Germany, because of Putin, is going to invest 100billion in military, money that should have gone into energy independence instead.

TLDR: If the article would say “Germany/Italy“ instead of “the europeans” or “former east bloc members kept sucking the tit of Russian gas too long instead of switching to renewables or getting over their fear of nuclear power” then yes sure. But formulated as it is now it’s like saying Asians eat dogs while that mostly applies to Chinese and South Koreans and in many cases is really just pork :lol:
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
so, russian rebels attacked Donetsk, causing the whole conflict, but the death of those children are the responsibility of the Ukraine armed forces?
isn't it funny...beyond funny, it's motherfucking hilarious how nothing is the fault of russia, or putin...they're the whipping boys of the entire planet, just taking beating after beating for the rest of us...
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
First, you don't tell me what to do, Russian..second, it's my choice to ask the person who liked your post to find what's not there, Russian.

The point of his laughing at my response back to you, Russian..he KNOWS there was no response, Russian.
i believe she is Romanian? but even if she is russian, is that a reason to be rude? she's been trying to give us news that we can't get, or will get days from now...she obviously doesn't support putin or his war...so just exactly what the fuck is the problem, KAREN?
 

AntoMaria7

Well-Known Member
i believe she is Romanian? but even if she is russian, is that a reason to be rude? she's been trying to give us news that we can't get, or will get days from now...she obviously doesn't support putin or his war...so just exactly what the fuck is the problem, KAREN?
(She?) doesn’t get attention so she seeks it here(with me):))) it’s like highschool all over again
 

Kassiopeija

Well-Known Member
Some German government dude said they’ll end Russiand dependence in just a few years. Dutch expert says that’s not being truthful, it would take an energy transition of 20-30 years. Germany is phasing out nuclear power plants because Fukushima, other east european countries don’t want it because of Chernobyl. Next week the EU will present a new energy plan to reduce reliance on Russia. If Russia shuts down the pipes, so be it, but if they don’t, well, it’s starting to look like those who depend on Russian gas a lot should start looking for alternatives very fast.

It blows our neighbor Germany, because of Putin, is going to invest 100billion in military, money that should have gone into energy independence instead.

TLDR: If the article would say “Germany/Italy“ instead of “the europeans” or “former east bloc members kept sucking the tit of Russian gas too long instead of switching to renewables or getting over their fear of nuclear power” then yes sure. But formulated as it is now it’s like saying Asians eat dogs while that mostly applies to Chinese and South Koreans and in many cases is really just pork :lol:
sure sure 30 years to just buy from somewhere else? nice "experts" you got there

Russian exports in the first ten months of 2021 totaled $388.4 billion, an increase of 42.8% over the same period last year, according to the Russian Federal Customs Service (FCS). This growth is due to the low base of the crisis-hit year before, as well as to this year's economic recovery and rising inflation.

Russia‘s main trading partners are non-CIS countries (86.9%), the Top 5 being:

  1. China (trade turnover of US$112.4 billion)
  2. Germany (US$46.1 billion)
  3. Netherlands (US$37 billion)
  4. US (US$28.8 billion)
  5. Turkey (US$25.7 billion)

Russia and the Netherlands are traditionally important economic partners. The Netherlands is the second in the world and first in Europe Russia’s trade partner and the second foreign direct investor. In 2014, Russian-Dutch trade turnover amounted to $73,2bn (according to the statistics of the Russian Federal Customs Service). The Netherlands remains Russia’s number one export destination ($67,9bn) and number 14 import partner ($5,2bn). In 2014, Russian-Dutch trade turnover equaled 9,4% of the Russian foreign trade volume.

Holland has a population of 17.3mio whereas Germany has 83,4mio ppl.
And yet you import so massively from Russia even surpassing other lands easily that are way way more populous than you.

All things considered on a per-capita basis Holland is about ~~3 times more dependant on Russia than us.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
so, russian rebels attacked Donetsk, causing the whole conflict, but the death of those children are the responsibility of the Ukraine armed forces?
isn't it funny...beyond funny, it's motherfucking hilarious how nothing is the fault of russia, or putin...they're the whipping boys of the entire planet, just taking beating after beating for the rest of us...
Well of course it is. The Ukrainians didn't just roll over when the Russians came.
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Look at the pathetic incursions on Ukrainian territory by the mighty Russian army in a week of fighting! They are nibbling around the edges FFS and vast areas in the west are as yet un attacked and the county hasn't even been chopped up yet. This is the result with little NATO support, compared to what is coming in the days and weeks ahead, this is nothing. NATO troops cannot enter Ukraine but we can train and arm Ukrainians in Poland to the teeth and send them back home as long as the western part of the country is free, have a look at the map, the Ukrainians are about to or already have received massive supplies of guns, ammo, stingers and anti tank weapons with more stuff on the way too. We can have field hospitals for the wounded and help in countless other ways too.

This is from today.
Ukraine Invasion: An analysis of Russian troops on the ground

Video has come to light of the leader of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko - who is a key ally of Russia- seeming to talk through the strategic aims of the invasion.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Not even the Russians can deny what you’re saying in your question. It’s feckless to do any trade with Russia.

The sentence you quoted however is a misrepresentation of reality. Spain. Portugal, Belgium, Switzerland, Ireland, Malta, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, and a few others don’t import much or any gas from Russia, but certainly aren’t dependent on it. France, a relatively large importer, is a good example of how sensational media portray the dependence. France’s energy supply is over 70% fulfilled by their nuclear reactors, 20% renewables, less than 9% fossile. The latter includes gas, oil, and coal. Articles with maps showing gas dependence show France‘s gas consumption relies for 30% on Russia. What it doesn’t show it translates to less than 2% of France’s total energy demand.

Five of the largest importers/consumers of Russian gas in Europe are Germany, Italy, Ukraine, Belarus and Turkey. Yes, in some media, Turkey is a part of ‘Europe’ when the reliance of ‘EU‘ on Russian gas is covered.

The manner in which countries depend on it differs a lot too. Some need it for certain industries, some for most of their power plants, and many for heating and cooking. The latter are in some countries including NL (~15% of gas russian) a priority. That is, in case of shortage, the largest companies are cut off first, then medium and small, then private consumers. This means in case Russia stops sending gas, some businesses might go either green or bankrupt, economy will take a hit, but nothing near a qualification as “highly dependent“. Within the EU, “highly dependent” applies to Germany, Italy, and several countries in the east, as in former east bloc countries where till very recently the majority had a positive opinion on Russia. The baltic states, Hungary, Bulgaria, and a few others in the east get 50 to over 90% of gas from Russia.

The high dependence implies strong leverage, which makes it an even worse misrepresentation. It could have been used as leverage over those two fake states (I refuse to register the names in my brain) but given the current situation…

Some German government dude said they’ll end Russiand dependence in just a few years. Dutch expert says that’s not being truthful, it would take an energy transition of 20-30 years. Germany is phasing out nuclear power plants because Fukushima, other east european countries don’t want it because of Chernobyl. Next week the EU will present a new energy plan to reduce reliance on Russia. If Russia shuts down the pipes, so be it, but if they don’t, well, it’s starting to look like those who depend on Russian gas a lot should start looking for alternatives very fast.

It blows our neighbor Germany, because of Putin, is going to invest 100billion in military, money that should have gone into energy independence instead.

TLDR: If the article would say “Germany/Italy“ instead of “the europeans” or “former east bloc members kept sucking the tit of Russian gas too long instead of switching to renewables or getting over their fear of nuclear power” then yes sure. But formulated as it is now it’s like saying Asians eat dogs while that mostly applies to Chinese and South Koreans and in many cases is really just pork :lol:
Germany also have moved away from coal, part of the reason the gas from Russia was important. Germany has a lot of brown coal that it has been phasing out. It is a dirty fuel, more than regular black coal.
 

printer

Well-Known Member
Look at the pathetic incursions on Ukrainian territory by the mighty Russian army in a week of fighting! They are nibbling around the edges FFS and vast areas in the west are as yet un attacked and the county hasn't even been chopped up yet. This is the result with little NATO support, compared to what is coming in the days and weeks ahead, this is nothing. NATO troops cannot enter Ukraine but we can train and arm Ukrainians in Poland to the teeth and send them back home as long as the western part of the country is free, have a look at the map, the Ukrainians are about to or already have received massive supplies of guns, ammo, stingers and anti tank weapons with more stuff on the way too. We can have field hospitals for the wounded and help in countless other ways too.

This is from today.
Ukraine Invasion: An analysis of Russian troops on the ground

Video has come to light of the leader of Belarus, Alexander Lukashenko - who is a key ally of Russia- seeming to talk through the strategic aims of the invasion.
Maybe the commanders do not really want to kill their kinfolk? Mind you, the Ukrainians are doing pretty good the other way.
 

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
There are no people supporting this invasion. Including most Russians.
oh, there are a few, but they're low life scumbags each and every one.
syria, venezuala, and pakistan...there are three fucking powerhouse allies any country would be proud to have
https://www.hrw.org/middle-east/n-africa/syria

https://www.hrw.org/americas/venezuela

https://www.hrw.org/asia/pakistan

and let's not forget that paragon of freedom and civil rights, https://www.hrw.org/europe/central-asia/belarus
and how about those lovers of human rights and dignity, https://www.hrw.org/sitesearch?search=chechnya&sort_by=created

they're also counting china and india...but i don't think china and india want fuck all to do with russia after this, they're trying to become regarded as modern countries with some concern for their citizens, and don't want to fuck that up by associating with a piece of shit like putin
 

DIY-HP-LED

Well-Known Member
Maybe the commanders do not really want to kill their kinfolk? Mind you, the Ukrainians are doing pretty good the other way.
The way I see it is when serious aid starts rolling in the Russians will be in deep trouble with the way things are now. In a few weeks they might relieve the capitol and could hold everything west of the Dnieper river, much less the western part of the nation. Vlad wasted his time going after the cities in 5 separate armored thrusts instead of focusing on cutting off the country from NATO support and supply in the west. It was a fundamental blunder that will cost him the war. War is about concertation of power at a critical point in a timely manner, Vlad missed the bus and it might end up killing him. All this shit can end with a single bullet and simple solutions are often best.
 

Fogdog

Well-Known Member
QUOTE]
Not even the Russians can deny what you’re saying in your question. It’s feckless to do any trade with Russia.

The sentence you quoted however is a misrepresentation of reality. Spain. Portugal, Belgium, Switzerland, Ireland, Malta, Norway, Sweden, Luxembourg, and a few others don’t import much or any gas from Russia, but certainly aren’t dependent on it. France, a relatively large importer, is a good example of how sensational media portray the dependence. France’s energy supply is over 70% fulfilled by their nuclear reactors, 20% renewables, less than 9% fossile. The latter includes gas, oil, and coal. Articles with maps showing gas dependence show France‘s gas consumption relies for 30% on Russia. What it doesn’t show it translates to less than 2% of France’s total energy demand.

Five of the largest importers/consumers of Russian gas in Europe are Germany, Italy, Ukraine, Belarus and Turkey. Yes, in some media, Turkey is a part of ‘Europe’ when the reliance of ‘EU‘ on Russian gas is covered.

The manner in which countries depend on it differs a lot too. Some need it for certain industries, some for most of their power plants, and many for heating and cooking. The latter are in some countries including NL (~15% of gas russian) a priority. That is, in case of shortage, the largest companies are cut off first, then medium and small, then private consumers. This means in case Russia stops sending gas, some businesses might go either green or bankrupt, economy will take a hit, but nothing near a qualification as “highly dependent“. Within the EU, “highly dependent” applies to Germany, Italy, and several countries in the east, as in former east bloc countries where till very recently the majority had a positive opinion on Russia. The baltic states, Hungary, Bulgaria, and a few others in the east get 50 to over 90% of gas from Russia.

The high dependence implies strong leverage, which makes it an even worse misrepresentation. It could have been used as leverage over those two fake states (I refuse to register the names in my brain) but given the current situation…

Some German government dude said they’ll end Russiand dependence in just a few years. Dutch expert says that’s not being truthful, it would take an energy transition of 20-30 years. Germany is phasing out nuclear power plants because Fukushima, other east european countries don’t want it because of Chernobyl. Next week the EU will present a new energy plan to reduce reliance on Russia. If Russia shuts down the pipes, so be it, but if they don’t, well, it’s starting to look like those who depend on Russian gas a lot should start looking for alternatives very fast.

It blows our neighbor Germany, because of Putin, is going to invest 100billion in military, money that should have gone into energy independence instead.

TLDR: If the article would say “Germany/Italy“ instead of “the europeans” or “former east bloc members kept sucking the tit of Russian gas too long instead of switching to renewables or getting over their fear of nuclear power” then yes sure. But formulated as it is now it’s like saying Asians eat dogs while that mostly applies to Chinese and South Koreans and in many cases is really just pork :lol:
That "feckless" sentence had a ring to it that caught my attention. It was an appeal to emotion, painting an image that seemed false. The dickhead author was making a false claim in order raise the status of the US out of all of this.

What bothered and confused me before now pisses me off. Thanks the post. Krugman is a dick. Not that I'm just learning it now.
 
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