The Forward Party

[xtsho]

It's time for the moderates on both sides to take back the country from the extremists. I'm in.


"Former Republicans and Democrats form new third U.S. political party"

Home - FWDTogether

Moving Forward Together. After working in parallel to strengthen our democracy, the Forward Party, the Renew America Movement, and the Serve America Movement are pleased to announce the formal merger of our three organizations.We are uniting from across the political spectrum to create the...

fwdtogether.org

Former Republicans and Democrats form new third U.S. political party

Dozens of former Republican and Democratic officials announced on Wednesday a new national political third party to appeal to millions of voters they say are dismayed with what they see as America's dysfunctional two-party system.

www.reuters.com

Yang’s Forward party merges with groups led by former GOP officials

Former Democratic New York City mayoral candidate and presidential candidate Andrew Yang has joined forces with former Republicans, Democrats and independents on the Forward Party, Yang announced W…

thehill.com

Yang announces new Forward party with other centrist groups

It will be co-chaired by Yang and Christine Todd Whitman, the former GOP governor of New Jersey.

www.axios.com

 

[HGCC]

I like the theory, but do think it will lead to the trump folks winning. I guess I can see it going either way. It depends on how many republicans are grossed out by what their party has become but refuse to vote dem vs how many decided to drop the republicans and come over already and swap out to the new choice.

I'm not sure what they are trying to be more middle of the road on though? The democrats have moved pretty far in that direction already and rejected the left leaning ideas. I get it for republicans, their team went full retard. Will see what ideas the forward party puts out there, their little blurb reminded me of the socially liberal fiscally conservative Clinton ethos.

I think the centrist republicans this would generally appeal to already left their party, so the base of support it draws from is the big blue tent.

Edit: I don't think this will go anywhere. Yang fizzled hard and nobody else involvex was really a big name, i dont see paul ryan up there yet. My guess is they don't wind up on the ballot. Mixed bag there as we do need more and better choices...but gah, I think the amount of fuckery republicans will do if they get in is huge and sometimes you have to circle the wagon and accept some shit to prevent worse shit.

 

[Lucky Luke]

A newer left wing party is definitely needed but this seems to be another Conservative party along the Democrat lines? Perhaps as HGCC says it will only help Republicans.

 

[HGCC]

I'm just gonna call them lol-bertarians.

Anyone can form a party. It doesn't matter if you don't get on the ballot. Yang played well in cities with yuppie type folks, those are all safely blue so fuck it, the more the merrier. I don't see the appeal in battleground states where it would pull democrats over, but eh, support isnt that strong so it depends on the pitch. Hard to see shaking many republicans loose, but maybe it pulls some that leave over roe. They don't need to be blue, just not red.

 

[cannabineer]

circle the wagon

Koan-estoga

 

[cannabineer]

A newer left wing party is definitely needed but this seems to be another Conservative party along the Democrat lines? Perhaps as HGCC says it will only help Republicans.

you keep spelling center with extra syllables

 

[Lucky Luke]

you keep spelling center with extra syllables

I'm guessing that would depend on your political views. I thought it was interesting that HGCC said that "The democrats have moved pretty far in that direction already and rejected the left leaning ideas "
We are not alone in thinking this.

I'm not denying that there are Left leaning voters and candidates in the democratic party but they get whitewashed by the conservative members, candidates and political backers cash. Democrats are for all intents and purposes Conservative by a world political scale. Yes they are left of the Republicans but the repubs are pretty far right wing on a world political scale.
Not sure why we need to go back and forth on this on two threads at the same time though.

 

[cannabineer]

I'm guessing that would depend on your political views. I thought it was interesting that HGCC said that "The democrats have moved pretty far in that direction already and rejected the left leaning ideas "

I'm not denying that there are Left leaning voters and candidates in the democratic party but they get whitewashed by the conservative members, candidates and political backers cash. Democrats are for all intents and purposes Conservative by a world political scale. Yes they are left of the republicans but they are pretty far right wing on a world political scale.

Not sure why we need to go back and forth on this on two threads at the same time though.

because you do not define your terms, allowing you to move the goalposts to where they are convenient at the moment. I had a coupla other contributions, but in the light of the above, they’ll keep.

 

[cannabineer]

I'm guessing that would depend on your political views. I thought it was interesting that HGCC said that "The democrats have moved pretty far in that direction already and rejected the left leaning ideas "
We are not alone in thinking this.

I'm not denying that there are Left leaning voters and candidates in the democratic party but they get whitewashed by the conservative members, candidates and political backers cash. Democrats are for all intents and purposes Conservative by a world political scale. Yes they are left of the Republicans but the repubs are pretty far right wing on a world political scale.
Not sure why we need to go back and forth on this on two threads at the same time though.

The article shows definitive center imo.

 

[Fogdog]

It's time for the moderates on both sides to take back the country from the extremists. I'm in.


"Former Republicans and Democrats form new third U.S. political party"

Home - FWDTogether

Moving Forward Together. After working in parallel to strengthen our democracy, the Forward Party, the Renew America Movement, and the Serve America Movement are pleased to announce the formal merger of our three organizations.We are uniting from across the political spectrum to create the...

fwdtogether.org

Former Republicans and Democrats form new third U.S. political party

Dozens of former Republican and Democratic officials announced on Wednesday a new national political third party to appeal to millions of voters they say are dismayed with what they see as America's dysfunctional two-party system.

www.reuters.com

Yang’s Forward party merges with groups led by former GOP officials

Former Democratic New York City mayoral candidate and presidential candidate Andrew Yang has joined forces with former Republicans, Democrats and independents on the Forward Party, Yang announced W…

thehill.com

Yang announces new Forward party with other centrist groups

It will be co-chaired by Yang and Christine Todd Whitman, the former GOP governor of New Jersey.

www.axios.com

How does this party do any better against Republican obstructionism?

Also, follow the money. Don't expect rich people to make meaningful change to improve the situation for the lower classes.

 

[Lucky Luke]

because you do not define your terms

My take on terms.
Let's take Burnie Sanders. To Democrats he is Left, to Republicans he would be a God damn Commie. But let's look on a world stage where Universal healthcare is common place- he would be centre. I'm not sure i've ever heard a Conservative or Right wing person in Australia wanting to abolish Universal healthcare, or employer paid 4 weeks holiday or the multitude of things that come with a normal central type government and all things Burnie supports.

 

[cannabineer]

My take on terms.
Let's take Burnie Sanders. To Democrats he is Left, to Republicans he would be a God damn Commie. But let's look on a world stage where Universal healthcare is common place- he would be centre. I'm not sure i've ever heard a Conservative or Right wing person in Australia wanting to abolish Universal healthcare, or employer paid 4 weeks holiday or the multitude of things that come with a normal central type government and all things Burnie supports.

Sanders is a social democrat. That slots between center-left and socialist. I am not aware of any nation now or historically that went to the left of socialism. What are generally called communist regimes are authoritarian. Fascism with different linens.

Lenin, Mao, Kim have more in common with far-right totalitarians like Mussolini andvthe Sa’udi monarch. To paraphrase “Doc” Hudson from Cars:
“Turn hard enough left, and youll find yourself going right.“

 

[Lucky Luke]

Sanders is a social democrat. That slots between center-left and socialist. I am not aware of any nation now or historically that went to the left of socialism. What are generally called communist regimes are authoritarian. Fascism with different linens.

Lenin, Mao, Kim have more in common with far-right totalitarians like Mussolini andvthe Sa’udi monarch. To paraphrase “Doc” Hudson from Cars:
“Turn hard enough left, and youll find yourself going right.“

View attachment 5171319

Burnies a democratic socialist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders not a Social Democrate. Democratic socialist countries are pretty central these days are they not? Most western countries have Democratic socialist ideals and systems and are going further to the left. What was left is now centre would be my view.
Universal wage was once very Left but has started to become a central left ideal. Perhaps in 5 to 10 years it will be central.

But as i said what Burnie's ideals are for America is normal here in Australia, in fact we have gone further. His ideas are central to both the right and left parties here. Our right wing Conservative party, The Liberals is probably a little left of the Democrat's and our Left leaning Party, Labor is Social Democrats and are the largest party representing the majority of the voters. So must therefore be very central.

 

[HGCC]

I think democrats run a big tent, democrats in Milwaukee are different than LA. It is one of the big challenges they face. They did add a bunch of republicans to their roster when trump came in. As a whole this moved the democrats further right...but that too varies in its characteristics and what you define as a right wing type view. I use when I lived in Boston as an example, I got viewed as a conservative because I was pro gun, I was like "my dudes, how else does one seize the means of production and fight the state?"...which was pretty far over on the left as my reason. I thought they were weird with their social justice stuff that ignored economic issues. Democrats aren't any one particular thing, it's a collection the regional left.

 

[Rurumo]

There are no third parties in a winner take all system. Any attempt at a third party will simply drain democrats and independents, because Republicans have been radicalized into an authoritarian party by Rupert Murdoch and hate radio. The increase in Latino Republicans in Texas is 100% due to heavy Republican investment into Spanish language hate radio-Republicans know that ANY uneducated group of people are ripe for the picking by wild conspiracy theories.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

maybe if it wasn't led by two republicans and elon musk's biggest fan, i could take it semi-seriously...or perhaps another way to say that would be...if it wasn't led by three losers...
i'm all for another party, i'm all for a few more parties, but if they're going to be led by people who have absolutely no chance of winning, why bother? you'd be just as productive sitting at home drinking shots while watching the elections on tv, as you would be voting for a guaranteed loser...

 

[Herb & Suds]

To me this is just an attempt to get everyone back to center right
You know your parents Republicans
Nothing for left center

 

[cannabineer]

Burnies a democratic socialist https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernie_Sanders not a Social Democrate. Democratic socialist countries are pretty central these days are they not? Most western countries have Democratic socialist ideals and systems and are going further to the left. What was left is now centre would be my view.
Universal wage was once very Left but has started to become a central left ideal. Perhaps in 5 to 10 years it will be central.

But as i said what Burnie's ideals are for America is normal here in Australia, in fact we have gone further. His ideas are central to both the right and left parties here. Our right wing Conservative party, The Liberals is probably a little left of the Democrat's and our Left leaning Party, Labor is Social Democrats and are the largest party representing the majority of the voters. So must therefore be very central.

I didnt know they were so different. Then again I neither took poli sci couses nor hung with the philosophy of gov’t crowd. Also there were few in what most regarded as a tier-1 premed mill.

So if I understand, a democratic socialist wants the whole enchilada including collectivization of the national means of production and wealth. But the “democratic” bit means the means matter. Socialists of the older school saw progress only through revolution. A democratic socialist prefers nonviolent regime change while a social democrat will only use means that are within the law of the established state.

which leads me to thinking Bernie (it is polite to spell names right. That’s why I like to tweak the names* of the lowest troll class: those who shout qrap hoping to trigger someone into losing it.) wants to arrive at a collective final state. Im not good with that, with the reason that no fully socialist country has come to be afaik, so I have no real idea if the stable outcome is available from either revolution or the more incremental democratic socialist model.

Interesting article. I skimmed it and found them to use a strict economic perspective, ignoring the other sociopolitics.
By this strict measure the USSR was a near-complete socialist state. The bigger picture showed their socialist institutions were bundled with big fascist ones that don’t have to do with socialism, like creating a political counterreligion (science for the Russians; the Germans went all iron age mystical) to extend control beyond the economic.

On the face of that, I have spent my adult life believing that socialism (which for majors not in politics or history) is conflated with communism, which became the word for red fascism, thr stable endpoint for every sicialist revolution of the previous century.

Never having seen how a socialist economy can be combined with open democracy, I see only failure modes ending in China or Cuba. I dont want to live in a red fascist society.

If there is an incremental way to give socialism a try, with equally incremental and peaceful to go back and dismantle the new (and already ossified and defended!) bureaucracy while keeping the state liberal throughout, I might be willing to try.

(edit) uhm article.

15 Socialist Countries that Have Succeeded

In this article, we take a look at 15 socialist countries that have succeeded. You can skip our detailed analysis about state of socialism, and go directly to the 5 Socialist Countries that Have Succeeded. Socialism is an economic theory that stresses the ownership of means of production by...

finance.yahoo.com

 

[cannabineer]

To me this is just an attempt to get everyone back to center right
You know your parents Republicans
Nothing for left center

What markers do you use when determining if a government is in which of the three categories?

 

[Herb & Suds]

What markers do you use when determining if a government is in which of the three categories?

Association with Yang and Musk mostly