Fetterman or Oz. Who will win the senate seat?

Roger A. Shrubber

Well-Known Member
That is certainly a major disagreement you and I do have. As a conservative United States of America citizen. I believe the rights and government belong to the people. It has been my experience that socialist and Marxist generally prefer a central government controlling the people as opposed to the people controlling the government.
I believe constitutionally the federal government should only do and be responsible for a few things. One of which is negotiating treaties with foreign countries. Another one is to protect our borders.
The current Administration is doing a poor job of protecting our borders and is seen as weak with our allies and other foreign countries as well.
where are you running into these socialists and marxist? i'm aware of the meaning of these terms, and i have never met one marxist in this entire country that knew what marxism actually was. there are no socialists parties in this country, and no real socialist politicians...Bernie would like to think he is a socialist, but he's not really.
Fascism, on the other hand, IS alive and well in the republican party. there is no other name for the behavior of a very vocal, stupid, potentially violent element that wants to take away the rights of over half the country, to make themselves more comfortable with their life choices, that they're having issues rationalizing anymore.
 

Hotrod2

Well-Known Member
There are conservatives who aren't fascist. But if you support a GOP MAGA candidate, you are supporting fascism. Do you not understand what fascism is? Yes, Nazis were fascist but all fascists are not Nazis.

Key attributes of fascism:

  1. Powerful and Continuing Nationalism
    Fascist regimes tend to make constant use of patriotic mottos, slogans, symbols, songs, and other paraphernalia. Flags are seen everywhere, as are flag symbols on clothing and in public displays.

  2. Disdain for the Recognition of Human Rights
    Because of fear of enemies and the need for security, the people in fascist regimes are persuaded that human rights can be ignored in certain cases because of "need." The people tend to look the other way or even approve of torture, summary executions, assassinations, long incarcerations of prisoners, etc.

  3. Identification of Enemies/Scapegoats as a Unifying Cause
    The people are rallied into a unifying patriotic frenzy over the need to eliminate a perceived common threat or foe: racial , ethnic or religious minorities; liberals; communists; socialists, terrorists, etc.

  4. Supremacy of the Military
    Even when there are widespread domestic problems, the military is given a disproportionate amount of government funding, and the domestic agenda is neglected. Soldiers and military service are glamorized.

  5. Rampant Sexism
    The governments of fascist nations tend to be almost exclusively male-dominated. Under fascist regimes, traditional gender roles are made more rigid. Opposition to abortion is high, as is homophobia and anti-gay legislation and national policy.

  6. Controlled Mass Media
    Sometimes to media is directly controlled by the government, but in other cases, the media is indirectly controlled by government regulation, or sympathetic media spokespeople and executives. Censorship, especially in war time, is very common.

  7. Obsession with National Security
    Fear is used as a motivational tool by the government over the masses.

  8. Religion and Government are Intertwined
    Governments in fascist nations tend to use the most common religion in the nation as a tool to manipulate public opinion. Religious rhetoric and terminology is common from government leaders, even when the major tenets of the religion are diametrically opposed to the government's policies or actions.

  9. Corporate Power is Protected
    The industrial and business aristocracy of a fascist nation often are the ones who put the government leaders into power, creating a mutually beneficial business/government relationship and power elite.

  10. Labor Power is Suppressed
    Because the organizing power of labor is the only real threat to a fascist government, labor unions are either eliminated entirely, or are severely suppressed .

  11. Disdain for Intellectuals and the Arts
    Fascist nations tend to promote and tolerate open hostility to higher education, and academia. It is not uncommon for professors and other academics to be censored or even arrested. Free expression in the arts is openly attacked, and governments often refuse to fund the arts.

  12. Obsession with Crime and Punishment
    Under fascist regimes, the police are given almost limitless power to enforce laws. The people are often willing to overlook police abuses and even forego civil liberties in the name of patriotism. There is often a national police force with virtually unlimited power in fascist nations.

  13. Rampant Cronyism and Corruption
    Fascist regimes almost always are governed by groups of friends and associates who appoint each other to government positions and use governmental power and authority to protect their friends from accountability. It is not uncommon in fascist regimes for national resources and even treasures to be appropriated or even outright stolen by government leaders.

  14. Fraudulent Elections
    Sometimes elections in fascist nations are a complete sham. Other times elections are manipulated by smear campaigns against or even assassination of opposition candidates, use of legislation to control voting numbers or political district boundaries, and manipulation of the media. Fascist nations also typically use their judiciaries to manipulate or control elections.


Not included in that list are celebration of violence, including murder and belief in false conspiracies to justify grievances, such as Trump's big lie. You'll find plenty of disagreement among academics on whether or not Trump is fascist. His and his follower's actions and rhetoric certainly embrace the key characteristics laid out above. There is no doubt, however that Jan 6 was an attack launched by Trump and his MAGA GOP on our democracy. It was an attempt to overthrow an election that Trump lost and illegally put him back into power. After Jan 6, support for Trump and his MAGA movement is a clear and bright dividing line between MAGA Republicans and true Americans who uphold our democratic institutions whether they be liberal or conservative. OZ is a MAGA Republican. He's one of Trump's men. I do not understand how anybody could vote for a person who would support Trump after all that has taken place.
Well as a conservative American I can honestly say I don't know anyone that fits the criteria for fascist. From what I have observed abc, nbc, cnn, and MSNBC, tend to be more liberal news stations therefore I think representing the socialistic Democratic party of America. You are Others May point to Fox News as being right wing. Yet they do in fact report the news and what I think most people don't like it's a commentaries based on the news and people's opinion. According to the definitions that you presented, the Democrats of old which the KKK was spawned from would appear be more fascist to me. But this threat is not about fascism or Socialism or Marxism or communism. It's about fetterman and Oz and issues that they support or don't support and who might win the election
 

Hotrod2

Well-Known Member
where are you running into these socialists and marxist? i'm aware of the meaning of these terms, and i have never met one marxist in this entire country that knew what marxism actually was. there are no socialists parties in this country, and no real socialist politicians...Bernie would like to think he is a socialist, but he's not really.
Fascism, on the other hand, IS alive and well in the republican party. there is no other name for the behavior of a very vocal, stupid, potentially violent element that wants to take away the rights of over half the country, to make themselves more comfortable with their life choices, that they're having issues rationalizing anymore.
Again with more name calling and trying to dehumanize people that don't have the same thoughts or beliefs as you.
 

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
Well as a conservative American I can honestly say I don't know anyone that fits the criteria for fascist. From what I have observed abc, nbc, cnn, and MSNBC, tend to be more liberal news stations therefore I think representing the socialistic Democratic party of America. You are Others May point to Fox News as being right wing. Yet they do in fact report the news and what I think most people don't like it's a commentaries based on the news and people's opinion. According to the definitions that you presented, the Democrats of old which the KKK was spawned from would appear be more fascist to me. But this threat is not about fascism or Socialism or Marxism or communism. It's about fetterman and Oz and issues that they support or don't support and who might win the election
The Democratic Party of old aka southern Dixie democrats ran to the Republican Party where they remain today
I was approached by the kkk in the 80’s they professed to be conservatives and Christian and hiding under the guise of a church
Just to keep your tale factual but please carry on
 

Hotrod2

Well-Known Member
So I watch the full debate between fetterman and Oz. I think fetterman did his best and I respect his effort in the debate.

I also noticed, got the first three questions asked of him by the moderator we're not answered. Instead he spent his time attacking Dr Oz and him as a person. Which did not resolve any issues and did not relate his thoughts on the questions asked.
In my opinion, I believe he lost the debate to Dr Oz. As Dr Oz articulated his positions and his plans for the state of Pennsylvania. Based on what I saw, I hope truly that the people that love him do not allow him in his condition to drive let alone make any serious life-changing decisions.
His political affiliations past decisions and future dreams do not make him less of a human to me. I only hope that he recovers from what must have been a dramatic event and life-changing event.
 

Hotrod2

Well-Known Member
The Democratic Party of old aka southern Dixie democrats ran to the Republican Party where they remain today
I was approached by the kkk in the 80’s they professed to be conservatives and Christian and hiding under the guise of a church
Just to keep your tale factual but please carry on
You say the Democratic party of old. But we're talking about the 1960s and that's not that long ago. I don't see anything like the Democratic Party in the Republican party of today. Yet our current president is both a racist and a sexist. Which reminds me of the democratic party of old and maybe and most certainly the new Democratic party which he is the head of.
 

Herb & Suds

Well-Known Member
You say the Democratic party of old. But we're talking about the 1960s and that's not that long ago. I don't see anything like the Democratic Party in the Republican party of today. Yet our current president is both a racist and a sexist. Which reminds me of the democratic party of old and maybe and most certainly the new Democratic party which he is the head of.
You see what you want to see
I’m sure the proud boys are all democrats
 

hanimmal

Well-Known Member
You say the Democratic party of old. But we're talking about the 1960s and that's not that long ago. I don't see anything like the Democratic Party in the Republican party of today. Yet our current president is both a racist and a sexist. Which reminds me of the democratic party of old and maybe and most certainly the new Democratic party which he is the head of.
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But hey I get it, you can't really acknowledge reality and pretend like the current Republican Party is not full of would be fascist dictators at the same time.

 

sunni

Administrator
Staff member
You say the Democratic party of old. But we're talking about the 1960s and that's not that long ago. I don't see anything like the Democratic Party in the Republican party of today. Yet our current president is both a racist and a sexist. Which reminds me of the democratic party of old and maybe and most certainly the new Democratic party which he is the head of.
So was trump though....
 
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