Mar- A Lago raided FBI Warrants

[cannabineer]

Conviction is certainly possible. Have to see what the charges are.



Certainly unprecedented times, so I suppose anything is possible. Felony espionage is about the only thing I could see leading to a country club prison. Something like improper possession and storage of classified documents? Slap on the wrist.

Dissenting opinion. They were not just any classified documents. Nuclear security is a phrase with which to conjure the bigs: older and fouler things than Orcs.

 

[ec121]

Dissenting opinion. They were not just any classified documents. Nuclear security is a phrase with which to conjure the bigs: older and fouler things than Orcs.

I realize what is claimed the documents contain. I just think without clear actions on them, nothing substantive will happen to him. We'll see. People should be more worried about someone like DeSantis. He has the same mentality as Trump, but he's actually not an idiot so he has a greater chance of succeeding.

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

Dissenting opinion. They were not just any classified documents. Nuclear security is a phrase with which to conjure the bigs: older and fouler things than Orcs.

there is still the 1/6 committee's recommendation to come, and they seem to be inclined to refer a criminal case against trump...
it's been my hope that Garland is waiting for that recommendation, with his case already made.

 

[Fogdog]

If Garland doesn't indict Trump with in 30 days of the election, he's a failure and a coward. The evidence is overwhelming for a fast trial in DC and a speedy conviction with Trump taken into custody upon arrest, like everybody else, if he is not taken into custody on indictment, he will be upon conviction. No judge would release Trump on his, his word, he has none to give.

So, I'd say indictments for Donald a couple of weeks after the election, if not sooner. Donald will announce his run for POTUS to try and get ahead of it, especially if the republicans take the house and the polls say they will, we will see.

GOP bracing for Trump indictment soon after Election Day

Republican aides and strategists privately expect Attorney General Merrick Garland to pursue an indictment of former President Trump within 60 to 90 days after Election Day, predicting the window f…

thehill.com

no

 

[Roger A. Shrubber]

I realize what is claimed the documents contain. I just think without clear actions on them, nothing substantive will happen to him. We'll see. People should be more worried about someone like DeSantis. He has the same mentality, but he's actually not an idiot so he has a greater chance of succeeding.

I wouldn't worry too much about desantis. He does have the same mentality, or close enough, and he is more intelligent than trump, but he also has the personality of a shit covered rat.

 

[cannabineer]

I realize what is claimed the documents contain. I just think without clear actions on them, nothing substantive will happen to him. We'll see. People should be more worried about someone like DeSantis. He has the same mentality as Trump, but he's actually not an idiot so he has a greater chance of succeeding.

I fear McCarthy similarly.

 

[Fogdog]

I realize what is claimed the documents contain. I just think without clear actions on them, nothing substantive will happen to him. We'll see. People should be more worried about someone like DeSantis. He has the same mentality as Trump, but he's actually not an idiot so he has a greater chance of succeeding.

jumping the gun, are you? We don't know what the DOJ has on this matter. In any case, obstruction is what usually takes down mob bosses. There is zero room for some of Trump's lawyers to avoid obstruction themselves too. Too bad for Trump that Mar a Lago isn't a high rise or maybe they would already have been defenestrated.

Mid-November is when Trump's legal team must respond to the appeals court that will end in a ruling that Judge Cannon's decision to slow down the require a Special Master to review all (non classified) documents was invalid. After that, the investigation may continue. I'm content to wait. I don't see how Garland could NOT, at a minimum, file obstruction charges against Trump that are clearly and easily proven through testimony the DOJ already has. They don't have to prove a motive for that kind of charge either.

What is the penalty for obstruction of justice in US?

The criminal penalties for obstruction of justice in a federal case range from non-prosecution to probation and include up to five years in prison and substantial fines. In some cases, the potential federal prison term can go even higher, up to 20 years.


DeSantis sucks. But that's not a crime. I'm not aware there are any high crimes or misdemeanors under investigation regarding DeSantis. Do you know of any? I support democracy. I'd hate DeSantis if he were my governor but he's not. The majority of people in Florida seem to love him. They can have him. I can support that.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

no

Anybody else would be long gone, held in custody upon arrest which would have been immediate. Garland has a case and any delay beyond the election would just give Trump time to announce and cause yet more trouble. I believe Garland has enough ducks lined up to proceed and further delay would incur unnecessary risk to the public, not to mention the republic. This sentiment is widely shared in the American legal community, he has the evidence and a very tight case, just from the public evidence presented thus far. It works the same way as if Donald had a ton of coke under his bed with his prints all over it, it is a simple case, as is the obstruction of justice charge.

 

[Fogdog]

Anybody else would be long gone, held in custody upon arrest which would have been immediate. Garland has a case and any delay beyond the election would just give Trump time to announce and cause yet more trouble. I believe Garland has enough ducks lined up to proceed and further delay would incur unnecessary risk to the public, not to mention the republic. This sentiment is widely shared in the American legal community, he has the evidence and a very tight case, just from the public evidence presented thus far. It works the same way as if Donald had a ton of coke under his bed with his prints all over it, it is a simple case, as is the obstruction of justice charge.

Your timelines have always been fantasies.

 

[cannabineer]

Anybody else would be long gone, held in custody upon arrest which would have been immediate. Garland has a case and any delay beyond the election would just give Trump time to announce and cause yet more trouble. I believe Garland has enough ducks lined up to proceed and further delay would incur unnecessary risk to the public, not to mention the republic. This sentiment is widely shared in the American legal community, he has the evidence and a very tight case, just from the public evidence presented thus far. It works the same way as if Donald had a ton of coke under his bed with his prints all over it, it is a simple case, as is the obstruction of justice charge.

I otoh believe that Garland, who is in wholehearted service to the rule of law, is looking at a bigger picture than just that man.

 

[ec121]

jumping the gun, are you? We don't know what the DOJ has on this matter. In any case, obstruction is what usually takes down mob bosses. There is zero room for some of Trump's lawyers to avoid obstruction themselves too. Too bad for Trump that Mar a Lago isn't a high rise or maybe they would already have been defenestrated.

Mid-November is when Trump's legal team must respond to the appeals court that will end in a ruling that Judge Cannon's decision to slow down the require a Special Master to review all (non classified) documents was invalid. After that, the investigation may continue. I'm content to wait. I don't see how Garland could NOT, at a minimum, file obstruction charges against Trump that are clearly and easily proven through testimony the DOJ already has. They don't have to prove a motive for that kind of charge either.

What is the penalty for obstruction of justice in US?

The criminal penalties for obstruction of justice in a federal case range from non-prosecution to probation and include up to five years in prison and substantial fines. In some cases, the potential federal prison term can go even higher, up to 20 years.


DeSantis sucks. But that's not a crime. I'm not aware there are any high crimes or misdemeanors under investigation regarding DeSantis. Do you know of any? I support democracy. I'd hate DeSantis if he were my governor but he's not. The majority of people in Florida seem to love him. They can have him. I can support that.

I'm saying DeSantis has a good chance of running and winning the 2024 presidency - a far better chance than Trump and he is not as incompetent as Trump in their agenda.

As for high crimes and misdemeanors, one needs to look no further than the Senate trial on Trump's second impeachment after 1/6. I don't think a clearer argument for an impeachment conviction can be made, yet you had members of Congress, who are actual attorneys, going on break and having a legal meeting with Trump and his defense attorneys to come up with a strategy against the prosecution.

During the trial, all members of Congress are jurors. It would be like me being a juror on a trial in my town and meeting with the defense and telling them how to best persuade the other jurors. So yeah, I don't give a shit about what the book says the max penalties are.

 

[ec121]

I wouldn't worry too much about desantis. He does have the same mentality, or close enough, and he is more intelligent than trump, but he also has the personality of a shit covered rat.

Yeah, that's what I said about Trump in 2016. Would have probably come true if Comey didn't come out and say he's opening an investigation into Trump's opponent's emails 11 days before election day.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Your timelines have always been fantasies.

In this particular case we can rely on the available evidence, the gravity of the charges and the precident of others who are doing time for less. Trials for these kinds of things don't take long and Trump has no defense worth a fuck, then there are the sentencing guidelines, and the fact defendants are cuffed upon conviction. So, let's say he's busted around the middle of November and enters a plea, how long until he gets a trial date? How many days would a judge (in DC) a lot to such a trial and how long would a DC jury deliberate? That pretty much sums it up, the clock starts ticking upon indictment and there and few delays possible.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

I'm saying DeSantis has a good chance of running and winning the 2024 presidency - a far better chance than Trump and he is not as incompetent as Trump in their agenda.

As for high crimes and misdemeanors, one needs to look no further than the Senate trial on Trump's second impeachment after 1/6. I don't think a clearer argument for an impeachment conviction can be made, yet you had members of Congress, who are actual attorneys, going on break and having a legal meeting with Trump and his defense attorneys to come up with a strategy against the prosecution.

During the trial, all members of Congress are jurors. It would be like me being a juror on a trial in my town and meeting with the defense and telling them how to best persuade the other jurors. So yeah, I don't give a shit about what the book says the max penalties are.

Impeachment is a political act, not a legal one, or so say the republicans, removing someone from office seems like a legal move to me.

 

[ec121]

Impeachment is a political act, not a legal one, or so say the republicans, removing someone from office seems like a legal move to me.

Impeachment in the House could be a political act, but the trial in the Senate that follows is unquestionably a legal proceeding and it was rife with corruption. In recent times, lawmakers and and judges are not putting the US Constitution first, and it is showing.

 

[DIY-HP-LED]

Impeachment in the House could be a political act, but the trial in the Senate that follows is unquestionably a legal proceeding and it was rife with corruption. In recent times, lawmakers and and judges are not putting the US Constitution first, and it is showing.

That was their story, and they are sticking to it. The main thing in all this is they are not paying any political price for essentially treason and causing the insurrection on J6. I guess we will know what all this bullshit costs or rewards them in a week.

Apparently white America is not happy with responsible government and beating the shit out of the Russians for a bargain, they want something different. They blame the democrats for inflation and high gas prices, the result of international factors and a roaring economy with record low unemployment. The republicans have been a disaster for the economy and there is plenty of evidence to prove this, yet the legend they are somehow better persists. They have no solutions only more problems.

 

[Fogdog]

I'm saying DeSantis has a good chance of running and winning the 2024 presidency - a far better chance than Trump and he is not as incompetent as Trump in their agenda.

As for high crimes and misdemeanors, one needs to look no further than the Senate trial on Trump's second impeachment after 1/6. I don't think a clearer argument for an impeachment conviction can be made, yet you had members of Congress, who are actual attorneys, going on break and having a legal meeting with Trump and his defense attorneys to come up with a strategy against the prosecution.

During the trial, all members of Congress are jurors. It would be like me being a juror on a trial in my town and meeting with the defense and telling them how to best persuade the other jurors. So yeah, I don't give a shit about what the book says the max penalties are.

The Senate trial was a political trial, not a criminal or civil trial. Republicans didn't even try to defend Trump from charges, they just said he's innocent without giving a valid legal argument for innocence. So, it's not a good comparison with what Garland's DOJ is capable of doing.

I'm for democracy. If Republicans choose DeSantis to be their candidate, I can't stop them. Democrats have to decide who they choos, among the candidates running for their nomination. Over many recent presidential elections, Democrats won the majority of voters. Core Democratic values can win elections. It all comes down to who we choose. If Desantis, the do-nothing Culture Wars governor of Florida, runs and wins the election for president then he's president. But if he wins, it will be because Democrats failed to select a good leader who could appeal to the majority who do not prefer right wing radicalism. In other words, Democrats control the presidential election. They can either win it or lose it but like Trump in 2020, DeSantis has to hope Democrats screw up. Hope is not a good strategy.

I don't think Republican leaders are capable of following the law. So, there's a chance Trump and DeSantis can share the duties of president from a shared jail cell.

 

[Fogdog]

In this particular case we can rely on the available evidence, the gravity of the charges and the precident of others who are doing time for less. Trials for these kinds of things don't take long and Trump has no defense worth a fuck, then there are the sentencing guidelines, and the fact defendants are cuffed upon conviction. So, let's say he's busted around the middle of November and enters a plea, how long until he gets a trial date? How many days would a judge (in DC) a lot to such a trial and how long would a DC jury deliberate? That pretty much sums it up, the clock starts ticking upon indictment and there and few delays possible.

Whatever.

 

[ec121]

The Senate trial was a political trial, not a criminal or civil trial. Republicans didn't even try to defend Trump from charges, they just said he's innocent without giving a valid legal argument for innocence. So, it's not a good comparison with what Garland's DOJ is capable of doing.

No matter how Republicans felt about it, in both impeachments, he was charged with crimes. I have no lack of confidence with Garland's DOJ being capable of bringing forth charges. It's the convictions that matter, just like it mattered in the impeachments, and the DOJ has no control over that.

 

[Fogdog]

No matter how Republicans felt about it, in both impeachments, he was charged with crimes. I have no lack of confidence with Garland's DOJ being capable of bringing forth charges. It's the convictions that matter, just like it mattered in the impeachments, and the DOJ has no control over that.

In the first one, the defense was that the president may do whatever he wants as long as he says he thought it was in the national interest. No joke.

But, hey, if you can find that kind of defense working in a criminal trial, or even a traffic ticket, go forth and do what you want to do, believe what you want.

Tell us later how it worked for you traffic ticket. Your honor, I believed it was a 90 mph zone, I thought it was ok, so I'm innocent.