What humidity to target during late veg / early pre flower ?

DoubleD5374

Well-Known Member
I’m curious what has given the most explosive growth rates for other users ? I was down a tent heater so for a week I had to lower temps to 70-75 lights on , 60-65 off , with lower humidity .
Now that ac infinity replaced my thermoforge I’m back in business .
I was getting insane growth with 1200ppm co2 ,85-90* temp and 65/70% humidity , I realize I can’t sustain that . I’m week 5 and the plants are absolutely massive , I’m wondering if I should keep running humid and hot till actual flowers are being shown ? Or should I lower humidity and temp in a tapered manner , for best results ?

yes I have 3 small plants in a tray between my 4 9 gallon autopots , they were the “runts” so to speak , and rather then waste them I figured I’d try and give them a fighting chance to finish . So they’re much further into flower . The others are just getting started . IMG_4436.jpeg
 

DoubleD5374

Well-Known Member
Upper right under settings.. No, plants are plants, they gotta transpire..
I understand they all need to transpire but I sssume week 5 for an autoflower is not the same as week 5 for a photoperiod etc ? Or maybe I’m just overthinking it ? I just wanna hammer into flowering on the right track and have the ability to target whatever vpd I want - via heat , dehu , humidity , and also high co2 in lung room , with a buddy heater running on the porch all day long to keep it warm ,
 

HydoDan

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you got it figured out... Its good science, experiment with it and read the plants..
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
I understand they all need to transpire but I sssume week 5 for an autoflower is not the same as week 5 for a photoperiod etc ? Or maybe I’m just overthinking it ? I just wanna hammer into flowering on the right track and have the ability to target whatever vpd I want - via heat , dehu , humidity , and also high co2 in lung room , with a buddy heater running on the porch all day long to keep it warm ,
If you are interested in increasing or maximizing the yield and quality of your crop, higher light levels are the ticket. In ambient CO2, once the inputs in the grow environment have reached the sufficiency level, light is the only input that you can increase that will lead to an increase in crop yield or crop quality.

Note that I specify "ambient CO2" because CO2 is the first input to optimize but most growers can't because they're in tents. Given that you're at 1200PPM for CO2, the next input to maximize is light. Per my statement, once you hit the sufficiency level for all of the other inputs, there's no point in adding more.

If you're running 1200PPM, you should be able to take PPFD well on the way to 2k. Crop yields increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase. There's plenty of research to support that, if you're interested in the gory details. An interesting data point is that Bugbee recommends 1200µmol at 1200PPM that advice is for commercial growers and he states that light levels really are dependent on how each much each grower wants to provide. One of his students, Mitch Westmoreland, has said that they have run cannabis at light levels up to 2000µmol and yield continues to increase even at that level. I run my grows in least 1k in ambient CO2 and have had excellent results.


VPD is not a function of which week. "optimal" VPD values are stated for each of the phases of plant growth because plant structure changes according to the phases of plant growth.

A VPD of 0.8 is considered optimal for a cannabis plant in seedling stage, it's 1.0 for veg, and 1.2-1.5 in flower. Those are "optimal" values.

What does "optimal" mean? I would explain it - when VPD is at those values, plants will transpire at a rate at which you can use normal concentration of nutrients and you can provide water at a standard rate. VPD is not a goal, necessarily. VPD is a measurement that indicates the rate at which your plants will be transpiring and, as a grower, you need to adjust your watering schedule and nutrient strength accordingly.

VPD came up in another thread here on RIU a few days ago. After reading the thread, I came up with the thoughts that I expressed in the above paragraph and I think it defines how VPD should be used by growers. As I stated in that other thread, as a new grower I saw VPD as a goal and it took a while to get my head around the idea that it's not a goal, rather it's a measurement used for managing the environment.

Ironically, about 24 hours ago, RH here in Southern California plummeted and the RH in my grow, which is in an unheated garage, dropped into the 30's. I've got 190+80+68+106=444 watts of light in the tent so there's "lots of warmth" in the tent and not much humidity. My AC Infinity humidifier is running 10/10 and yet my VPD has averaged 1.6. That's higher than I want and I'm seeing some tip burn. I added pure RO this morning (it's hydro) and I'll add another 1.2± gallons when I add water to the res tomorrow AM. The plants will be fine as long as I make sure they've got plenty of water in the res and EC will drop as I add more RO.

I think it's great that you're running CO2. I'd love to make that leap but no can do in a tent so the best I can do keep the other parts of the grow environment up to snuff.

[edit]

The best advice on temperature is from Mitch Westmoreland in the YT videos he dropped at about this time last year. He is/was a PhD candidate under Bruce Bugbee and he shared some of the research that he did for his thesis. His advice is to run up to 85° from seedling through about the second week in flower. The high temps increase growth rates and, by the second week in flower, the infrastructure of the plant will be built out. Once you hit the second week, drop your temperatures so that the temperature of the tops of the buds is <=78°. The reason to keep temps low is that elevated temps has a dramatic negative impact on the levels of secondary metabolites.

From one of his videos (title of the video at the bottom of the graphic).

1733199191731.png

His video is excellent. It really is a "how to" on getting the most out of your grow.

And, yes, the tops of my buds are <78°. ;-)


1733199344035.jpeg
 
Last edited:

Nutty sKunK

Well-Known Member
I’m curious what has given the most explosive growth rates for other users ? I was down a tent heater so for a week I had to lower temps to 70-75 lights on , 60-65 off , with lower humidity .
Now that ac infinity replaced my thermoforge I’m back in business .
I was getting insane growth with 1200ppm co2 ,85-90* temp and 65/70% humidity , I realize I can’t sustain that . I’m week 5 and the plants are absolutely massive , I’m wondering if I should keep running humid and hot till actual flowers are being shown ? Or should I lower humidity and temp in a tapered manner , for best results ?

yes I have 3 small plants in a tray between my 4 9 gallon autopots , they were the “runts” so to speak , and rather then waste them I figured I’d try and give them a fighting chance to finish . So they’re much further into flower . The others are just getting started . View attachment 5442920
Those back two are monsters! They transitioning to flower now or still vegging?

For what it’s worth the humidity drops for me as soon as there’s no space for the humidifier. The plants are usually big enough by then to transpire enough humidity into the room.

Usually go from 62% humidity to 45-50 for stretch/bloom
 

420AD

Well-Known Member
I'm in the mid 40s sometimes even low 30s when they dry out, it's a bit on the low side but I ain't frying 'em too hard anyways.
I went with untopped this year so I was worried a bit about those big heads...
 

DoubleD5374

Well-Known Member
Sounds like you got it figured out... Its good science, experiment with it and read the plants..
Sounds like you got it figured out... Its good science, experiment with it and read the plants..
Based off the chart my 86/67 is dead on the money . For some reason with every auto I’ve ever grown , during pre flower , my new growth has light green/yellow color . After they’re flowering though , they darken right back up . It happened with 100 different autos this year , some in living soil , some in coco , some in regular soil being fed synthetics . I’m gonna lollipop tomorrow for sure .
Those back two are monsters! They transitioning to flower now or still vegging?

For what it’s worth the humidity drops for me as soon as there’s no space for the humidifier. The plants are usually big enough by then to transpire enough humidity into the room.

Usually go from 62% humidity to 45-50 for stretch/bloom
they seem to be just starting to shoot bunches of hairs but they’re stretching hard .i super cropped them last night , at a 90* angle and they were all standing tall by morning . And yes I’m finding the lower and hotter it is , the happier they are at this time . A lot of that is a constant feed of 12-1500ppm of co2 inside .
I’m sure once flower forms they’ll want reduced temps but 80-85 is the sweet spot and definitely accelerating growth .
I thinned one of the front ones out massively , in stead of a chia pet bonsai tree , I have every branch seeing light now and praying for the most part . I still need to lollipop the two rear most plants and remove some inside growth / but I suspect they’re gonna be very very high yielding this round .
I’m going to do a major round of defoliation tonight .
 
Last edited:

DoubleD5374

Well-Known Member
If you are interested in increasing or maximizing the yield and quality of your crop, higher light levels are the ticket. In ambient CO2, once the inputs in the grow environment have reached the sufficiency level, light is the only input that you can increase that will lead to an increase in crop yield or crop quality.

Note that I specify "ambient CO2" because CO2 is the first input to optimize but most growers can't because they're in tents. Given that you're at 1200PPM for CO2, the next input to maximize is light. Per my statement, once you hit the sufficiency level for all of the other inputs, there's no point in adding more.

If you're running 1200PPM, you should be able to take PPFD well on the way to 2k. Crop yields increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase. There's plenty of research to support that, if you're interested in the gory details. An interesting data point is that Bugbee recommends 1200µmol at 1200PPM that advice is for commercial growers and he states that light levels really are dependent on how each much each grower wants to provide. One of his students, Mitch Westmoreland, has said that they have run cannabis at light levels up to 2000µmol and yield continues to increase even at that level. I run my grows in least 1k in ambient CO2 and have had excellent results.


VPD is not a function of which week. "optimal" VPD values are stated for each of the phases of plant growth because plant structure changes according to the phases of plant growth.

A VPD of 0.8 is considered optimal for a cannabis plant in seedling stage, it's 1.0 for veg, and 1.2-1.5 in flower. Those are "optimal" values.

What does "optimal" mean? I would explain it - when VPD is at those values, plants will transpire at a rate at which you can use normal concentration of nutrients and you can provide water at a standard rate. VPD is not a goal, necessarily. VPD is a measurement that indicates the rate at which your plants will be transpiring and, as a grower, you need to adjust your watering schedule and nutrient strength accordingly.

VPD came up in another thread here on RIU a few days ago. After reading the thread, I came up with the thoughts that I expressed in the above paragraph and I think it defines how VPD should be used by growers. As I stated in that other thread, as a new grower I saw VPD as a goal and it took a while to get my head around the idea that it's not a goal, rather it's a measurement used for managing the environment.

Ironically, about 24 hours ago, RH here in Southern California plummeted and the RH in my grow, which is in an unheated garage, dropped into the 30's. I've got 190+80+68+106=444 watts of light in the tent so there's "lots of warmth" in the tent and not much humidity. My AC Infinity humidifier is running 10/10 and yet my VPD has averaged 1.6. That's higher than I want and I'm seeing some tip burn. I added pure RO this morning (it's hydro) and I'll add another 1.2± gallons when I add water to the res tomorrow AM. The plants will be fine as long as I make sure they've got plenty of water in the res and EC will drop as I add more RO.

I think it's great that you're running CO2. I'd love to make that leap but no can do in a tent so the best I can do keep the other parts of the grow environment up to snuff.

[edit]

The best advice on temperature is from Mitch Westmoreland in the YT videos he dropped at about this time last year. He is/was a PhD candidate under Bruce Bugbee and he shared some of the research that he did for his thesis. His advice is to run up to 85° from seedling through about the second week in flower. The high temps increase growth rates and, by the second week in flower, the infrastructure of the plant will be built out. Once you hit the second week, drop your temperatures so that the temperature of the tops of the buds is <=78°. The reason to keep temps low is that elevated temps has a dramatic negative impact on the levels of secondary metabolites.

From one of his videos (title of the video at the bottom of the graphic).

View attachment 5442934

His video is excellent. It really is a "how to" on getting the most out of your grow.

And, yes, the tops of my buds are <78°. ;-)


View attachment 5442935
I overlooked your entire comment accidentally . But I posted above this that I’m finding 40-50% and 85* with co2 to be promoting a ton of growth .
I thinned them out massively as they were going to be an airflow problem . I’ve been running my light 100% on the veg side since week 2. It’s a kind x750 , and they seemed to have loved it . I believe the acid snow would’ve gotten larger had I kept the light down some , but at the same time the bosss battle wouldn’t be as large ..

I’ve got a real treat for my next grow journal . I have four very phenomenal breeders cuts and I intend to run four clones of one strain for a very even canopy , in autopots and living soil with only ph water .
The four cuttings are
white truffle beleaf cut
Lemon cherry gelato
Forbidden fruit
And cap junky “capulator cut”

im really leaning towards cap junky . Shit I may just run one of each and train the hell out of them , then flip when all even canopy ‍♂
 

DoubleD5374

Well-Known Member
If you are interested in increasing or maximizing the yield and quality of your crop, higher light levels are the ticket. In ambient CO2, once the inputs in the grow environment have reached the sufficiency level, light is the only input that you can increase that will lead to an increase in crop yield or crop quality.

Note that I specify "ambient CO2" because CO2 is the first input to optimize but most growers can't because they're in tents. Given that you're at 1200PPM for CO2, the next input to maximize is light. Per my statement, once you hit the sufficiency level for all of the other inputs, there's no point in adding more.

If you're running 1200PPM, you should be able to take PPFD well on the way to 2k. Crop yields increase in an almost linear manner as light levels increase. There's plenty of research to support that, if you're interested in the gory details. An interesting data point is that Bugbee recommends 1200µmol at 1200PPM that advice is for commercial growers and he states that light levels really are dependent on how each much each grower wants to provide. One of his students, Mitch Westmoreland, has said that they have run cannabis at light levels up to 2000µmol and yield continues to increase even at that level. I run my grows in least 1k in ambient CO2 and have had excellent results.


VPD is not a function of which week. "optimal" VPD values are stated for each of the phases of plant growth because plant structure changes according to the phases of plant growth.

A VPD of 0.8 is considered optimal for a cannabis plant in seedling stage, it's 1.0 for veg, and 1.2-1.5 in flower. Those are "optimal" values.

What does "optimal" mean? I would explain it - when VPD is at those values, plants will transpire at a rate at which you can use normal concentration of nutrients and you can provide water at a standard rate. VPD is not a goal, necessarily. VPD is a measurement that indicates the rate at which your plants will be transpiring and, as a grower, you need to adjust your watering schedule and nutrient strength accordingly.

VPD came up in another thread here on RIU a few days ago. After reading the thread, I came up with the thoughts that I expressed in the above paragraph and I think it defines how VPD should be used by growers. As I stated in that other thread, as a new grower I saw VPD as a goal and it took a while to get my head around the idea that it's not a goal, rather it's a measurement used for managing the environment.

Ironically, about 24 hours ago, RH here in Southern California plummeted and the RH in my grow, which is in an unheated garage, dropped into the 30's. I've got 190+80+68+106=444 watts of light in the tent so there's "lots of warmth" in the tent and not much humidity. My AC Infinity humidifier is running 10/10 and yet my VPD has averaged 1.6. That's higher than I want and I'm seeing some tip burn. I added pure RO this morning (it's hydro) and I'll add another 1.2± gallons when I add water to the res tomorrow AM. The plants will be fine as long as I make sure they've got plenty of water in the res and EC will drop as I add more RO.

I think it's great that you're running CO2. I'd love to make that leap but no can do in a tent so the best I can do keep the other parts of the grow environment up to snuff.

[edit]

The best advice on temperature is from Mitch Westmoreland in the YT videos he dropped at about this time last year. He is/was a PhD candidate under Bruce Bugbee and he shared some of the research that he did for his thesis. His advice is to run up to 85° from seedling through about the second week in flower. The high temps increase growth rates and, by the second week in flower, the infrastructure of the plant will be built out. Once you hit the second week, drop your temperatures so that the temperature of the tops of the buds is <=78°. The reason to keep temps low is that elevated temps has a dramatic negative impact on the levels of secondary metabolites.

From one of his videos (title of the video at the bottom of the graphic).

View attachment 5442934

His video is excellent. It really is a "how to" on getting the most out of your grow.

And, yes, the tops of my buds are <78°. ;-)


View attachment 5442935
Also would like to add , that the reason my co2 concentration is so high , is I have a buddy heater keeping my porch warm during winter “which is where my 4x4 tent is located . , it runs on low , non stop , and keeps it 60-65 degrees in here on a 5 degree night . But the amount of co2 it puts off is insane .

the only time it drops off , is when the door is left wide open , or the heater runs out of propane .
At dark time , I keep the pilot light lit , and use an electric heater on the porch , with a ac infinity thermoforge heater in tent . Even then I see 8/900ppm without it actually throwing heat from the propane heater . I have my window ac on an : ac infinity uis plug , to trigger on for 20 of the 120 minutes my plants see during darkness to get fresh air exchanged . I run a 6/2 light schedule , and only exchange when lights are out . Even with the fresh air I’m still 750-775 basically at all times , unless the heater is off and the door is wide open ..

I bought the entire ac infinity co2 controller , sensor and regulator - but haven’t needed a bottle at all , becuase of the heating source on the porch the sensor is great to have data on what is goin on in the tent .
 

Delps8

Well-Known Member
Also would like to add , that the reason my co2 concentration is so high , is I have a buddy heater keeping my porch warm during winter “which is where my 4x4 tent is located . , it runs on low , non stop , and keeps it 60-65 degrees in here on a 5 degree night . But the amount of co2 it puts off is insane .

the only time it drops off , is when the door is left wide open , or the heater runs out of propane .
At dark time , I keep the pilot light lit , and use an electric heater on the porch , with a ac infinity thermoforge heater in tent . Even then I see 8/900ppm without it actually throwing heat from the propane heater . I have my window ac on an : ac infinity uis plug , to trigger on for 20 of the 120 minutes my plants see during darkness to get fresh air exchanged . I run a 6/2 light schedule , and only exchange when lights are out . Even with the fresh air I’m still 750-775 basically at all times , unless the heater is off and the door is wide open ..

I bought the entire ac infinity co2 controller , sensor and regulator - but haven’t needed a bottle at all , becuase of the heating source on the porch the sensor is great to have data on what is goin on in the tent .
OK, now your braggin' ! ;-)

That's great that you're getting all of that CO2. That'll get you a healthy boost in yield.
 

DoubleD5374

Well-Known Member
OK, now your braggin' ! ;-)

That's great that you're getting all of that CO2. That'll get you a healthy boost in yield.
They don’t like to be above 50% humidity or 80* or less . This morning they looked awful . Humidity was 60% and temp was 80* . I turned my tent heater up , and my dehu on . It’s 89 degrees in tent with 51% humidity and this is how they look , after 2 hours ago every leaf dropping and sad .. I took a ton of foliage off last night - I plan on doing more this afternoon as well . 90/50 range seems to be the money zone right now .. they’re all in pre flower and Looks like they’re about to stretch heavy . I’m gonna push ppm upto 1500 next feeding . My water accounts for 400ppm , but with heavy light intensity , and co2 I think they’ll handle it no problem . They’re sitting at 1300 right now as it is . Reservoirs changes are every 2-2.5 days now should’ve bought the 25 gallon tank over the 13 haha

IMG_4456.jpeg
 
Top