Israel and the ignored UN Resolutions

[Anotheroldephart]

That's right ...nothing to correct ...there is no proof that Isreal was threaten with annihilation if have the actual quote I'd like to see it .... the link I provide shows that he didn't say what you claim ... you said he had to correct himself ... he doesn't ... you do ... Your "definitions" ... have nothing to do with the discussion ...
... where did I "change" what you said to suit my "position?
... you don't pick and choose what you put up? ... you just put things up at random ... right ... and the link you provide shows that Israel attacked a Palestinian school that they claim launched a rocket ... back in 2007 ... I can admit Hamas is wrong ... but you seem to have a problem admiting Isreal is wrong ... way wrong ... and when did I say I made up my mind?

There you go, not reading my post. I did say that while Israel has the right to respond, that what they did, and how they did it was over kill, and that with the tech they have available, it should have been done more surgically.....
Originally Posted by Anotheroldephart
i agree, I don't think that Israel's response is equal to the H's attacks,period. I also believe that Israel has the right to defend it self..but damn what they're doing is a bit much.But what the solution is is another problem. Page 2 #17

On youtube, that is a video of Hamas about to launch a mortar from the school.

You say I "claim" and when I offer video you say Israel "claims" Now, I know I wasn't there but by your adamant responses I gather you were..in Gaza that is..Hmm I wasn't aware that Americans where allowed to wander around the streets. So, Explain how you "know" that what Israel "claims" are lies, and what Hamas "claims is the truth? How is it you're privy to Hamas does?
When something is my opinion, I so state, when I have evidence to back it it I say so.
Hamas is the problem, not the Palistinians, if hamas woulsd stop throwing rockets, Israel would stop responding. I'l,l say it again so you'll see it.

Isreal has the right to protect itself and respond to attacks, but the manner, and amount were excessive, By the way..who broke this latest cease fire..Who shipped in medical supplies and food and fuel..
Hamas broke the cease fire, and Israel shipped in the supplies, not Hamas. Now who really cares about the people of Gaza?

 

[Anotheroldephart]

By the way, why do I..I didn't say that Israel should be wiped off the face of the earth..He said it, and the responsibility to assure that he was properly quoted is his. you never answeed my questions..I'veanswered yours.

 

[GrowRebel]

There you go, not reading my post. I did say that while Israel has the right to respond, that what they did, and how they did it was over kill, and that with the tech they have available, it should have been done more surgically.....
Originally Posted by Anotheroldephart
i agree, I don't think that Israel's response is equal to the H's attacks,period. I also believe that Israel has the right to defend it self..but damn what they're doing is a bit much.But what the solution is is another problem. Page 2 #17

Even your post proves my point ... no where in it does it say Israel is wrong ... plus you keep claiming they have a right to defend themselves even though they are committing war crimes ...and the Palestinians don't ?... are they to accept Israel's war crimes and oppression? ...

On youtube, that is a video of Hamas about to launch a mortar from the school.

Doesn't look like a school to me ... and no real evidence is showed to let people know it really is a school ...

You say I "claim" and when I offer video you say Israel "claims" Now, I know I wasn't there but by your adamant responses I gather you were..in Gaza that is..Hmm I wasn't aware that Americans where allowed to wander around the streets. So, Explain how you "know" that what Israel "claims" are lies, and what Hamas "claims is the truth? How is it you're privy to Hamas does?

Israel has been caught lying so many times when they "claim" something ...that's exactly what it is ... a "claim" and there is plenty of proof of that statement ... look at Iraq and Iran and all "claims" Israel made that turn out to be lies ... so yeah ... if Israel "claims" something I have my doubts ... base on their past record ...

When something is my opinion, I so state, when I have evidence to back it it I say so.
Hamas is the problem, not the Palistinians, if hamas woulsd stop throwing rockets, Israel would stop responding. I'l,l say it again so you'll see it.

Bullshit ... Israel wants a never ending war just like the illegitimate bush regime and their elite friends in their little PNAC club ... if it wasn't this conflict they come up with some other people to oppress ... they make far too much money on war and it's way too good a tool to keep people from realizing they are being screwed ... big time ...

Isreal has the right to protect itself and respond to attacks, but the manner, and amount were excessive, By the way..who broke this latest cease fire..Who shipped in medical supplies and food and fuel..

Hamas was wrong to break the cease fire ... if they did ... but it doesn't wipe away Israel sins ... not by a long shot ...

Hamas broke the cease fire, and Israel shipped in the supplies, not Hamas. Now who really cares about the people of Gaza?

The people of Gaza that's who ... and they want Israel off their land ... a reasonable desire ...

 

[CrackerJax]

A Palestinian country has never existed in history before, buy it is achievable. It could happen tomorrow, it could have happened at any time in the last 40 years. All that needs to be done is for the Arab States including Palestine to wash their hands of annihilation doctrine which is built into their constitution (FFS!)...... It is the Arab states which are the roadblock to peace....not Israel. This has always been the case.

It is the Arab states which force the Palestinians to live in refugee camps..... not Israel. This has always been the case as well. Gaza is empty and yet the camps remain....



out.

 

[medicineman]

It is the Arab states which force the Palestinians to live in refugee camps..... not Israel. This has always been the case as well. Gaza is empty and yet the camps remain....
How can you figure this? It is Israel that surrounds the palestinians and makes the borders. It is Israel that limits the employment of the palestinians, razes their homes and fields, Jails their young men and holds hundreds in prison. I'd say that sounds like more of an Israeli problem then an Arab one. .

 

[shimmer]

I haven't read that much of the thread folks,so hopefully i'm not re-treading. I just wonder where Israel wants to go with this?? I'll leave out my more sinister musings and try to be logical. I think the reason Hamas are able to be a DEMOCRATICALLY elected Govt.(perhaps more democratically than some superpower we could mention), is because the people of Palestine are bullied from all sides, and have been for years. I'm not talking about the people with a taste for violence and hate who join together under banners like Hamas or Al Aqsa; people who have been so brutalized or brainwashed that there is little else than the will to protect themselves gone malignant.....just the people, the good Mums and Papas Uncles Grannies: like ya know the electorate? Fuck it! Bullies ain't nice people! Hamas are bullies, the Israelis are bullies. I can't imagine what it must be like to be bullied to such an extent. Dozens of kids kill themselves every week in the G8 from being bullied at school.It's impossible for most of us to know on RIU what it's like to be Palestinian right now,(+ rep if you're living in Gaza and quote this message before 01/11/09)murderous fucken militias and thought police with targets on their backs that a fart molecule would hit from 100 yards in strong winds in your neighbourhood?In your schools? Evacuate the school? Maybe a drone would see them leave? "STAY PUT CUNTS!!!!" they say to the teacher and children as they fire their wee rocket that may or may not kill an innocent in Israel. Then again there are just those fair-minded warrior individuals who can't stand to see their people killed,and choose to fight those that are attacking them(think the Arab equivalent of "Our Boys over there&quot the difference of course being that the Gazan points his missles in the right direction. The crux of what i'm saying is i find it very difficult to believe that Israel is so naive as to think it isn't arming it's enemies. Remember all the images of Palestinian children throwing rocks at tanks over the years? Metaphorically..Israel is creating more rocks, and more people to throw them. In other news...the combination of cider, soft black and free lidl's pate coupled with the psychological burden of having a massive police cordon around much of my neighbourhood all day gave me my soapiest ever piss. Well RIU is essentially a recipe site. Right.

 

[Anotheroldephart]

Before Israel took Gaza, it was mostly barren , with a few villages, and small ports, not as heavily populated as it is now.
when Hamas was"elected' Those of the Fatah persuasion left for the West Bank. This shows that it's not so much a Palestinian problem as an Hamas problem. Israel has over the years not only given aid, but has provide the stuff to build with, more in fact than other Arab countries. Unfortunately it only takes few radicals to endanger the rest of the people> My solution, is to load crop dusters with hash oil and torches to keep it lit.. That would mellow them out enough to talk.. Let's face it..has any one ever gotten aggressive on hash oil?

 

[diemdepyro]

Only when i can't find it.

 

[shimmer]

Before Israel took Gaza, it was mostly barren , with a few villages, and small ports, not as heavily populated as it is now.
when Hamas was"elected' Those of the Fatah persuasion left for the West Bank. This shows that it's not so much a Palestinian problem as an Hamas problem. Israel has over the years not only given aid, but has provide the stuff to build with, more in fact than other Arab countries. Unfortunately it only takes few radicals to endanger the rest of the people> My solution, is to load crop dusters with hash oil and torches to keep it lit.. That would mellow them out enough to talk.. Let's face it..has any one ever gotten aggressive on hash oil?

Sorry Anotheroldephart, i just reported your post. Unintentional report it was. Not been here for a while, thought it was mychoda tripping shit out but this place really has changed.

 

[shimmer]

Before Israel took Gaza, it was mostly barren , with a few villages, and small ports, not as heavily populated as it is now.
when Hamas was"elected' Those of the Fatah persuasion left for the West Bank. This shows that it's not so much a Palestinian problem as an Hamas problem. Israel has over the years not only given aid, but has provide the stuff to build with, more in fact than other Arab countries. Unfortunately it only takes few radicals to endanger the rest of the people> My solution, is to load crop dusters with hash oil and torches to keep it lit.. That would mellow them out enough to talk.. Let's face it..has any one ever gotten aggressive on hash oil?

C'mon now. Don't people mostly stick with what little they have in times of chaos and war, hemmed in from every side? West bank or Gaza? Great fucking choice. I don't get with the bad Hamas good Fatah thing at all. Israel has been at this for years with Palestine, how can any Palestinian Father know where to go that's safe with all this shit going on for so long? Poor fuckin' people can't know whether their coming or going. These are the people that are getting hammered,poor innocent fucking decent people with a culture of hospitality, loyalty, and integrity that's streets ahead of anything the English speaking west has to offer.

Our time is coming. We are letting this happen in every corner of the world(yes, i know it's a fucking sphere). I catch myself all too often watching images of suffering people on screens, and feeling fuck all. Oh baby Jesus in all your mercy let us all feel for just five minuites the pain and suffering of these LITTLE TINY PEOPLE, that we be spared the sensations of the kin who love them.

Ye know what? It's the unorthadox majority who are really getting fucked here on Earth....again.

My chagrin is not meant for you at all Anotheroldephart, but Israeli aid? to Palestine? Are you nuts?

Yeah let's get big ideas let's masturbate to abstractions and politics. The world does NOT have to fucking be like this!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

 

[Anotheroldephart]

A large portion of aid to Gaza come from Israel. But you're right, the whole thing sucks. There is a chasm between Hamas and Fatah. Conservatives and liberals if you will. Fatah was pretty much made unwelcome in Gaza ans relocated to the West Bank.
innocents on both sides are suffering.
While I can see Israels position, how good is it if only one side stops shooting? Both sides need to stop shooting, realize each other has the right to exist, take all the anger and redirect it to rebuilding the region. But the amount of response wasn't necessary.
i don't understand why, if the civilians in Gaza don't want rockets fired from there homes why they don't stop Hamas?

 

[diemdepyro]

"A large portion of aid to Gaza come from Israel."ANO

And that aid came from the USA
just a point here.

 

[ANC]

A Palestinian country has never existed in history before,

THi smuch is true.... the israeli created the palestinians hwen they chased them off their lands into concentration camps...

 

[Anotheroldephart]

THi smuch is true.... the israeli created the palestinians hwen they chased them off their lands into concentration camps...

And who chased the Jews off their land?. i believe there were a few..minor bomb throwing incidents along the way. None of those countries existed before WWII as such. They were territories of the British Empire. Before that somewhat splintered..Before that ..part of the Ottoman Empire.
Check history..That whole region was the cradle of civilization dating back to Mesopotamia. Wars have been being fought over that stretch of real estate for 5K years at least..During which the Jews were living there with everybody else..and killing the, and being killed by them. This war is not new, just upgraded methods.

 

[diemdepyro]

This "Holy" land has been hip deep in the blood of innocents for thousands of years.

Not such a holy place in my eyes.

 

[Anotheroldephart]

This "Holy" land has been hip deep in the blood of innocents for thousands of years.

Not such a holy place in my eyes.

Indeed11 Andit's been said my ancestors were heathens! Makes me SSOO glad I'm Pagan. None of the Gods have ever directed us to go kill others because they don't believe as we do. If the true history of these "God fearing" religions ever really studied the past, I don't think people would be so quick to identify themselves with ANY of the differing se cts. I'm not saying that the "religion" is faulty, but the way it is practiced is surely shitty.

BTW..has anyone here ecer read any Andrew Greely?

 

[CrackerJax]

THi smuch is true.... the israeli created the palestinians hwen they chased them off their lands into concentration camps...

First of all, it wasn't the Israeli's who moved the Palestinian tribes off of Israeli land. Did you get that? Off of Israeli land..... it was the English and the U.N.

That's the problem with that line of thinking. If you are going to play "I was here first", then the Palestinians lose again. That land is historical Israel, not Palestine. The Romans took their homeland and dispersed the Jews out into the world with nothing. How nicely do you think that was done by the way? Wanna figure out the compensation over 2000 years?

No, that is a slippery slope of thinking......best not to use it. Mexico just called, they want Texas and Arizona back. Using the who owned it first premise........???? Oh but that's different........ how?


Refugee camps are not concentration camps. If you don't know the difference, you'll need to brush up a bit. Since the Arab states refuse to accept the Palestinians, they must stay put. That's the other little secret no one talks about. Tribal prejudice.....Palestinians are considered the white trash of the region by other Arabs. They don't want them, except to die as a pawn in a larger scheme of annihilation.



out.

 

[Anotheroldephart]

First of all, it wasn't the Israeli's who moved the Palestinian tribes off of Israeli land. Did you get that? Off of Israeli land..... it was the English and the U.N.

That's the problem with that line of thinking. If you are going to play "I was here first", then the Palestinians lose again. That land is historical Israel, not Palestine. The Romans took their homeland and dispersed the Jews out into the world with nothing. How nicely do you think that was done by the way? Wanna figure out the compensation over 2000 years?

No, that is a slippery slope of thinking......best not to use it. Mexico just called, they want Texas and Arizona back. Using the who owned it first premise........???? Oh but that's different........ how?


Refugee camps are not concentration camps. If you don't know the difference, you'll need to brush up a bit. Since the Arab states refuse to accept the Palestinians, they must stay put. That's the other little secret no one talks about. Tribal prejudice.....Palestinians are considered the white trash of the region by other Arabs. They don't want them, except to die as a pawn in a larger scheme of annihilation.



out.

you just hit on the dirty little secret that every one wants swept under the rug. i've noticed that when that question is asked there are no takers..Similar to my asking why the rest of Gaza doesn't say "enough is enough"
We have a similar problem here with crack houses.. If there was one in my neighborhood, it would last about aslong as it would take to gather a few essentials together and wait for a dark and stormy night..Essentials like gas..a rag..bottle..ohyeah..hot dogs and marshmellows.*lol* These antisocial groups operate on fear and intimidation as folks worry what might happen to them..Well what might happen if they don't act..Watch the nightly news and what happens is seen all over..
Did anyone see what happened on that flight that had a fellw dsaying he had a bomb on board? Well, he got his ass thumped, as he should have.
Todays attitude is, imo, that most people will wring their hands and cry that "somebody DOOO something" the part they leave out, is that somebody ELseshould do something to save their sorry asses. What evwer happened to relying on ones self?

 

[natrone23]

First of all, it wasn't the Israeli's who moved the Palestinian tribes off of Israeli land. Did you get that? Off of Israeli land..... it was the English and the U.N.

That's the problem with that line of thinking. If you are going to play "I was here first", then the Palestinians lose again. That land is historical Israel, not Palestine. The Romans took their homeland and dispersed the Jews out into the world with nothing. How nicely do you think that was done by the way? Wanna figure out the compensation over 2000 years?

No, that is a slippery slope of thinking......best not to use it. Mexico just called, they want Texas and Arizona back. Using the who owned it first premise........???? Oh but that's different........ how?

The difference is time, Do you think I have any right to Austria because my germanic ancestors were kicked out by the romans, what do you think the current Austrians would say if I came back said god promised me this land and proceeded to kick the native residents off the land................Do you you think the Austrians would fight back? Do you think the austrians have a right to fight back.


Do you think what americans did to the Indians was right? I don't, but to much time has past for us to right are wrongs. Same with slavery, Do you think what america did was wrong? I do, but I don't think there should be reperations because to much time has passed. The Japanese got reperations because of time, because that oppression was in recent memory people are still living who went through that, The same with palestians many still have there keys to there homes after they were run out of town by the Jews (and you wonder why they fire rockets), this wasn't 2000 years ago it was 50 years ago If you cant see that the passage of time makes a difference than I don't know what to tell you.

 

[natrone23]

Refugee camps are not concentration camps. If you don't know the difference, you'll need to brush up a bit. Since the Arab states refuse to accept the Palestinians, they must stay put. That's the other little secret no one talks about. Tribal prejudice.....Palestinians are considered the white trash of the region by other Arabs. They don't want them, except to die as a pawn in a larger scheme of annihilation.



out.

Why does the arab states have to take on the burden of millions of poor palestinians. Why don't you take them in. The arab states have enough problems of their own, its not their responsibilty for the sin of Israel. So I take you support the U.S taking in millions of poor mexicans? I doubt it. How about millions of darfur residents, how about we take them in?